RE: BMW Z4 images leaked
Discussion
Guvernator said:
Hmm not sure what you expected, it was never going to look like the concept tbh. OK it's not really ground breaking but I think it looks rather handsome.
Anyway, I'd be more worried about how it's going to drive as BMW seem to have forgotten how to make proper sports cars.
Not sure if you read the article or just looked at the pictures, but the article states the pre-production drive stated it to be a return to form.Anyway, I'd be more worried about how it's going to drive as BMW seem to have forgotten how to make proper sports cars.
kambites said:
With the exception of Porsche, they're in the business of selling heavy refined GTs built on saloon car platforms and they're very, very good at it. Given that people are happy to pay far more for a heavy refined GT than an unrefined lightweight sports car, why would they want to build the latter? Especially given that it would require a bespoke platform so would probably not only sell for less but would cost them more to develop.
By and large the German big-three are very good at giving the market what it not only wants, but what it is willing to pay a hefty premium for.
Exactly. Car manufacturers are there to manufacture cars that people want AND are prepared to buy.By and large the German big-three are very good at giving the market what it not only wants, but what it is willing to pay a hefty premium for.
Ares said:
But this is 2018, not 1998.
Strange how some people believe bad news, but doubt good news. Sad place to exist.
Sad, really?? I love living in 2018 for the most part and all the technological benefits that brings. I have access to a world of information, media etc at my fingertips, I carry around a computer in my pocket that has multiple times more computing power than nasa used to land on the moon. I even like most of the developments in modern cars, especially all the new tech and gadgets. My job wouldn't even exist about 30 years ago so no I'm not sad.Strange how some people believe bad news, but doubt good news. Sad place to exist.
Yes the world is rapidly changing, I am however objective enough to know what I like and that some "improvements" aren't to my liking, especially when it comes to modern sports cars where a lot of those improvements are driven more by legislation rather than any desire to actually improve the basic ingredients of what makes a sports car fun.
It would be a sad place to exist if we all thought newer always equals better, I guess the hundreds of thousands of people who prefer classic cars over modern, vinyl over digital etc are all sad too.
I really like BMW design and even more so in comparison to dul, Audi and all over the shop Merc but this is dull. An S 2000 with a body kit.
Soft spot for the Z3M and Z4M Coupe, It would much better in that guise. A convertible Coupe to use the wonky logic applied to the four door coupe.
Soft spot for the Z3M and Z4M Coupe, It would much better in that guise. A convertible Coupe to use the wonky logic applied to the four door coupe.
Ares said:
unsprung said:
the eagle-eyed and ever-enthusiastic PH community already started a thread on this topic -- yesterday
now PH initiates its own thread, making the preceding redundant, cutting off their oxygen really; happens regularly
why do the PH editorial team "run them off the road" like this?
would't it be more community minded to elevate what the community has already begun?
sorry if these questions sound like a bleating ar**
Because PH is more than just the forum...?now PH initiates its own thread, making the preceding redundant, cutting off their oxygen really; happens regularly
why do the PH editorial team "run them off the road" like this?
would't it be more community minded to elevate what the community has already begun?
sorry if these questions sound like a bleating ar**
E65Ross said:
Ares said:
unsprung said:
the eagle-eyed and ever-enthusiastic PH community already started a thread on this topic -- yesterday
now PH initiates its own thread, making the preceding redundant, cutting off their oxygen really; happens regularly
why do the PH editorial team "run them off the road" like this?
would't it be more community minded to elevate what the community has already begun?
sorry if these questions sound like a bleating ar**
Because PH is more than just the forum...?now PH initiates its own thread, making the preceding redundant, cutting off their oxygen really; happens regularly
why do the PH editorial team "run them off the road" like this?
would't it be more community minded to elevate what the community has already begun?
sorry if these questions sound like a bleating ar**
Okay so I am interested in people's input here.
Why is it that both the previous models have a reputation for being a bit tepid and not true sports cars?
I have had a few BMs but am no fanboy as the JDM stuff is what really floats my boat.
However, I had an E86 Z4 Coupe for a while and it was a brilliant sports car that was quick and great to drive. Both the E85 and the E86 have a massive enthusiast following on the forums which are generally friendly and welcoming.
The E89 meanwhile also has a keen following. We spend most summers touring Europe with Petrolhead Tours and another regular chap I have got to know has a 35is and absolutely loves it. He reckons it is quicker than his E92 M3 (which he also loved) and is as keen a petrolhead as you are ever likely to meet who really drives it hard when we hit the mountain passes.
So why is it that the Z4 is always talked about by journos as an also-ran and not a true sports car? I get it when it comes to it's other competitor the TT, however the Z4 is a two seater RWD sports car with fine engines and great handling, so surely it is a fine example of a sports car. The only justification I ever seem to read is that it isn't as good as a contemporary Boxster, but that in itself is no reflection of the Z4's own qualities.
Interested in peoples views. What do you think?
Why is it that both the previous models have a reputation for being a bit tepid and not true sports cars?
I have had a few BMs but am no fanboy as the JDM stuff is what really floats my boat.
However, I had an E86 Z4 Coupe for a while and it was a brilliant sports car that was quick and great to drive. Both the E85 and the E86 have a massive enthusiast following on the forums which are generally friendly and welcoming.
The E89 meanwhile also has a keen following. We spend most summers touring Europe with Petrolhead Tours and another regular chap I have got to know has a 35is and absolutely loves it. He reckons it is quicker than his E92 M3 (which he also loved) and is as keen a petrolhead as you are ever likely to meet who really drives it hard when we hit the mountain passes.
So why is it that the Z4 is always talked about by journos as an also-ran and not a true sports car? I get it when it comes to it's other competitor the TT, however the Z4 is a two seater RWD sports car with fine engines and great handling, so surely it is a fine example of a sports car. The only justification I ever seem to read is that it isn't as good as a contemporary Boxster, but that in itself is no reflection of the Z4's own qualities.
Interested in peoples views. What do you think?
I'm not sure those particular wheels do it any favour, be interesting to see what other options are available.
The grille behind the front wheels just doesn't look right to me either, it's too wide imo. On the concept it looked great with that middle crease sprouting from it, and the way it blended in above the side skirt. Now they've got rid of those elements but kept the large grille and it just looks too big and out of proportion, to my eyes anyway.
Although the last car clearly didn't win any awards for its sports car credentials, I still think it's a decent looking car (seems longer and lower than this) and as somebody else pointed out had a cracking interior that stills looks good today.
Hopefully the initial driving impressions are correct, and perhaps with the right wheel options and colouring it can take the fight to the Boxster.
Is there any word on an M version?
The grille behind the front wheels just doesn't look right to me either, it's too wide imo. On the concept it looked great with that middle crease sprouting from it, and the way it blended in above the side skirt. Now they've got rid of those elements but kept the large grille and it just looks too big and out of proportion, to my eyes anyway.
Although the last car clearly didn't win any awards for its sports car credentials, I still think it's a decent looking car (seems longer and lower than this) and as somebody else pointed out had a cracking interior that stills looks good today.
Hopefully the initial driving impressions are correct, and perhaps with the right wheel options and colouring it can take the fight to the Boxster.
Is there any word on an M version?
kambites said:
Good job no-one is banning second-hand cars then, really. 
I used to be a big BMW fan, I still am to an extent but I'm just not overly enthusiastic about the direction they seem to have taken in the last decade with some of their drive-train and engine tech, especially since it's sort of been forced upon them but I accept I'm in the minority. James Junior said:
Okay so I am interested in people's input here.
Why is it that both the previous models have a reputation for being a bit tepid and not true sports cars?
I have had a few BMs but am no fanboy as the JDM stuff is what really floats my boat.
However, I had an E86 Z4 Coupe for a while and it was a brilliant sports car that was quick and great to drive. Both the E85 and the E86 have a massive enthusiast following on the forums which are generally friendly and welcoming.
The E89 meanwhile also has a keen following. We spend most summers touring Europe with Petrolhead Tours and another regular chap I have got to know has a 35is and absolutely loves it. He reckons it is quicker than his E92 M3 (which he also loved) and is as keen a petrolhead as you are ever likely to meet who really drives it hard when we hit the mountain passes.
So why is it that the Z4 is always talked about by journos as an also-ran and not a true sports car? I get it when it comes to it's other competitor the TT, however the Z4 is a two seater RWD sports car with fine engines and great handling, so surely it is a fine example of a sports car. The only justification I ever seem to read is that it isn't as good as a contemporary Boxster, but that in itself is no reflection of the Z4's own qualities.
Interested in peoples views. What do you think?
I had an E89 Z4 35iS for a couple of years. It's a lovely touring car, goes fast enough and handles well enough but it as nothing like the handling and feel of something like a 981 Boxster.Why is it that both the previous models have a reputation for being a bit tepid and not true sports cars?
I have had a few BMs but am no fanboy as the JDM stuff is what really floats my boat.
However, I had an E86 Z4 Coupe for a while and it was a brilliant sports car that was quick and great to drive. Both the E85 and the E86 have a massive enthusiast following on the forums which are generally friendly and welcoming.
The E89 meanwhile also has a keen following. We spend most summers touring Europe with Petrolhead Tours and another regular chap I have got to know has a 35is and absolutely loves it. He reckons it is quicker than his E92 M3 (which he also loved) and is as keen a petrolhead as you are ever likely to meet who really drives it hard when we hit the mountain passes.
So why is it that the Z4 is always talked about by journos as an also-ran and not a true sports car? I get it when it comes to it's other competitor the TT, however the Z4 is a two seater RWD sports car with fine engines and great handling, so surely it is a fine example of a sports car. The only justification I ever seem to read is that it isn't as good as a contemporary Boxster, but that in itself is no reflection of the Z4's own qualities.
Interested in peoples views. What do you think?
I also found the Z4 light on the front axle when accelerating hard which gave no confidence when really pushing on.
It was a fun car to own though.
For some, those comments alone will tell them it's not a sports car. I always felt it was a sports car but with a very heavy bias on grand touring as opposed to agile fun.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 16th August 15:01
Guvernator said:
Ares said:
But this is 2018, not 1998.
Strange how some people believe bad news, but doubt good news. Sad place to exist.
Sad, really?? I love living in 2018 for the most part and all the technological benefits that brings. I have access to a world of information, media etc at my fingertips, I carry around a computer in my pocket that has multiple times more computing power than nasa used to land on the moon. I even like most of the developments in modern cars, especially all the new tech and gadgets. My job wouldn't even exist about 30 years ago so no I'm not sad.Strange how some people believe bad news, but doubt good news. Sad place to exist.
Yes the world is rapidly changing, I am however objective enough to know what I like and that some "improvements" aren't to my liking, especially when it comes to modern sports cars where a lot of those improvements are driven more by legislation rather than any desire to actually improve the basic ingredients of what makes a sports car fun.
It would be a sad place to exist if we all thought newer always equals better, I guess the hundreds of thousands of people who prefer classic cars over modern, vinyl over digital etc are all sad too.
James Junior said:
Why is it that both the previous models have a reputation for being a bit tepid and not true sports cars?
Do they? I thought the first generation Z4 was renowned for being very, perhaps even excessively, driver focused. The second generation has a deserved reputation for being far more of a GT than a sports car - fast and relaxing but rather heavy and not especially sharp feeling. Ares said:
Exactly. Car manufacturers are there to manufacture cars that people want AND are prepared to buy.
Couldn't agree more.However, whilst you might be happy with a lardy GT, doesn't mean I am, and 1 million buyers of MX5s over the last 3 decades would suggest than I'm not alone.
Feels like an open admission by the Germans that they can't compete, as they've not even tried to since the early Z3.
As for why there's some "tepid" views about the Z4 as a sportscar, maybe it's weight contributes?
Mr_Sukebe said:
Feels like an open admission by the Germans that they can't compete, as they've not even tried to since the early Z3.
Different brands aim at different market segments; an MX5 competitor simply wouldn't fit with their carefully cultivated brand ethos. That doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't compete, just that they don't want to. Asking why BMW don't make an MX5 competitor is a bit like asking why they don't make a Kia Picanto competitor. Whether they could compete is of course another matter. Lots of people have attempted to compete with the MX5 but only the MX5 has survived in that market space.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 16th August 12:54
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