Roadspace for cars in London
Discussion
cb1965 said:
London is just a mess, an incoherent and ill thought out set of transport plans that are changed on a whim every few years resulting in an overcrowded, expensive and piss poor public transport system combined with the worst of all worlds for drivers of motorised vehicles and cyclists alike. I managed 18 months there before I realised I was stupid for even trying it and got out.
I’d counter that by saying public transport in central London is amazing. Tube trains every 3 minutes, 24 hrs on fri and sat and buses for the remainder of any journey. Which clearly get their own lane. What about it did you think was piss poor?
OP - you know you can drive in bus lanes on a bike?
btdk5 said:
cb1965 said:
London is just a mess, an incoherent and ill thought out set of transport plans that are changed on a whim every few years resulting in an overcrowded, expensive and piss poor public transport system combined with the worst of all worlds for drivers of motorised vehicles and cyclists alike. I managed 18 months there before I realised I was stupid for even trying it and got out.
I’d counter that by saying public transport in central London is amazing. Tube trains every 3 minutes, 24 hrs on fri and sat and buses for the remainder of any journey. Which clearly get their own lane. What about it did you think was piss poor?
OP - you know you can drive in bus lanes on a bike?
btdk5 said:
cb1965 said:
London is just a mess, an incoherent and ill thought out set of transport plans that are changed on a whim every few years resulting in an overcrowded, expensive and piss poor public transport system combined with the worst of all worlds for drivers of motorised vehicles and cyclists alike. I managed 18 months there before I realised I was stupid for even trying it and got out.
I’d counter that by saying public transport in central London is amazing. Tube trains every 3 minutes, 24 hrs on fri and sat and buses for the remainder of any journey. Which clearly get their own lane. What about it did you think was piss poor?
Shakermaker said:
C70R said:
Added a bit that you may have (intentionally?) omitted, in bold.
Worth noting that depsite this being the case, rarely are the buses packed to capacity outside of rush hour. But for their size, I think they probably only need to carry 3-4 people to be more space-efficient than that number of cars?
1. The roads are significantly less busy outside of rush hour, and many of London's buslanes are open to cars between 10am-4pm.
2. Buses at rush hour in Central London are normally f*cking rammed. And the figure for comparison to cars is 2 - on the basis that the average car carries a single person, and is half the length of a bus.
cb1965 said:
btdk5 said:
cb1965 said:
London is just a mess, an incoherent and ill thought out set of transport plans that are changed on a whim every few years resulting in an overcrowded, expensive and piss poor public transport system combined with the worst of all worlds for drivers of motorised vehicles and cyclists alike. I managed 18 months there before I realised I was stupid for even trying it and got out.
I’d counter that by saying public transport in central London is amazing. Tube trains every 3 minutes, 24 hrs on fri and sat and buses for the remainder of any journey. Which clearly get their own lane. What about it did you think was piss poor?
IME, the only places that do it better are modern cities, whose infrastructure has grown around the city. London as we know it had been around for almost 1400 years before anyone thought to run a tube network through it, so there had to be inevitable compromises.
On the "changed every few years" point, would you prefer that they stuck to a rigid 20-year plan without taking into account changes in people's habits or available technology?
You seem to moan a lot about London, cropping up in pretty much any thread with vague relevance. I wonder why you'd ever visit the place...
On the bolded part, try two trains every 3min on the Victoria and Jubilee lines at peak hours. The upgraded signalling has effectively doubled their peak time capacity, which is unreal when you think about it.
cb1965 said:
btdk5 said:
cb1965 said:
London is just a mess, an incoherent and ill thought out set of transport plans that are changed on a whim every few years resulting in an overcrowded, expensive and piss poor public transport system combined with the worst of all worlds for drivers of motorised vehicles and cyclists alike. I managed 18 months there before I realised I was stupid for even trying it and got out.
I’d counter that by saying public transport in central London is amazing. Tube trains every 3 minutes, 24 hrs on fri and sat and buses for the remainder of any journey. Which clearly get their own lane. What about it did you think was piss poor?
Arent tubes even more frequent than that now .. sure I read somewhere that on some lines they are every 40 secs through town ?
Where I live I have an hourly bus service ( not at weekend or after 7pm) which doesn’t really go anywhere I’d want to
Or I can drive for half an hour to get an hourly train into Manchester which is usually a Pacer !! Which takes over an hour to get there .. when off peak I can drive into Manchester in 45 minutes
Somebody complaining about piss poor public transport in London needs to get outside the M25 once in a while
C70R said:
London's public transport is fantastic and very comprehensive, considering the phenomenal limitations.
No, it's really not. I have lived in several other major cities around the world and all of them had far better transport infrastructures than London. In fact I haven't found a city harder to travel round in my entire 53 years on this planet.You think it's great because you have either have no other benchmarks and/or have been brought up with low expectations and like most people in Britain are happy to put up with crap.
C70R said:
On the bolded part, try two trains every 3min on the Victoria and Jubilee lines at peak hours. The upgraded signalling has effectively doubled their peak time capacity, which is unreal when you think about it.
That'll be two trains every 3 minutes that are stuffed to the gunnels and where you can have to wait a number of trains before there is even enough room for you to ram yourself into someones sweaty armpit. I "visit" London for work semi-regularly and I'm very glad I don't live there and have to commute. It is horrendous.
Earthdweller said:
cb1965 said:
btdk5 said:
cb1965 said:
London is just a mess, an incoherent and ill thought out set of transport plans that are changed on a whim every few years resulting in an overcrowded, expensive and piss poor public transport system combined with the worst of all worlds for drivers of motorised vehicles and cyclists alike. I managed 18 months there before I realised I was stupid for even trying it and got out.
I’d counter that by saying public transport in central London is amazing. Tube trains every 3 minutes, 24 hrs on fri and sat and buses for the remainder of any journey. Which clearly get their own lane. What about it did you think was piss poor?
Arent tubes even more frequent than that now .. sure I read somewhere that on some lines they are every 40 secs through town ?
Where I live I have an hourly bus service ( not at weekend or after 7pm) which doesn’t really go anywhere I’d want to
Or I can drive for half an hour to get an hourly train into Manchester which is usually a Pacer !! Which takes over an hour to get there .. when off peak I can drive into Manchester in 45 minutes
Somebody complaining about piss poor public transport in London needs to get outside the M25 once in a while
As for getting outside of the M25... oh the irony... considering I've lived in numerous countries around the world I think my geographical horizons stretch a bit further than the orbital motorway around London.
cb1965 said:
I don't have anything, I have left London behind thankfully.
As for getting outside of the M25... oh the irony... considering I've lived in numerous countries around the world I think my geographical horizons stretch a bit further than the orbital motorway around London.
You make that clear, time and time again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again.As for getting outside of the M25... oh the irony... considering I've lived in numerous countries around the world I think my geographical horizons stretch a bit further than the orbital motorway around London.
C70R said:
Shakermaker said:
C70R said:
Added a bit that you may have (intentionally?) omitted, in bold.
Worth noting that depsite this being the case, rarely are the buses packed to capacity outside of rush hour. But for their size, I think they probably only need to carry 3-4 people to be more space-efficient than that number of cars?
1. The roads are significantly less busy outside of rush hour, and many of London's buslanes are open to cars between 10am-4pm.
2. Buses at rush hour in Central London are normally f*cking rammed. And the figure for comparison to cars is 2 - on the basis that the average car carries a single person, and is half the length of a bus.
Wasn't aware of the "buslanes open to cars" thing but that's because I'm sensible, and if I have cause to go into Central London will use public transport.
Shakermaker said:
C70R said:
Shakermaker said:
C70R said:
Added a bit that you may have (intentionally?) omitted, in bold.
Worth noting that depsite this being the case, rarely are the buses packed to capacity outside of rush hour. But for their size, I think they probably only need to carry 3-4 people to be more space-efficient than that number of cars?
1. The roads are significantly less busy outside of rush hour, and many of London's buslanes are open to cars between 10am-4pm.
2. Buses at rush hour in Central London are normally f*cking rammed. And the figure for comparison to cars is 2 - on the basis that the average car carries a single person, and is half the length of a bus.
Wasn't aware of the "buslanes open to cars" thing but that's because I'm sensible, and if I have cause to go into Central London will use public transport.
All bus lanes have time plates on them .. same as yellow lines
They are the same countrywide .. Most into towns 7-10am and out of towns 4pm-7pm .. outside those hours ANY vehicle can use them
Earthdweller said:
To expand on my previous post
traffic light sequences were altered to reduce flow rates, to allow longer pedestrian crossing times and cycle lights ... and actually deliberately cause congestion to both discourage drivers and provide a reason for road charging
The growth of bus lanes and cycles lanes has hugely reduced available road space, tie that to the tampering reducing flow rates me mentioned above and the restricting of rat runs and side streets forcing more vehicles into the restricted road space
In Liverpool they abolished ALL bus lanes saying they didn’t work and caused more problems for buses and other road users than they solved ( I think they have reinstated 4 in the city centre since)
So .. as I said Politicians
Most bus lanes abolished in Coventry recently as well.traffic light sequences were altered to reduce flow rates, to allow longer pedestrian crossing times and cycle lights ... and actually deliberately cause congestion to both discourage drivers and provide a reason for road charging
The growth of bus lanes and cycles lanes has hugely reduced available road space, tie that to the tampering reducing flow rates me mentioned above and the restricting of rat runs and side streets forcing more vehicles into the restricted road space
In Liverpool they abolished ALL bus lanes saying they didn’t work and caused more problems for buses and other road users than they solved ( I think they have reinstated 4 in the city centre since)
So .. as I said Politicians
cb1965 said:
C70R said:
London's public transport is fantastic and very comprehensive, considering the phenomenal limitations.
No, it's really not. I have lived in several other major cities around the world and all of them had far better transport infrastructures than London. In fact I haven't found a city harder to travel round in my entire 53 years on this planet.You think it's great because you have either have no other benchmarks and/or have been brought up with low expectations and like most people in Britain are happy to put up with crap.
The network, subject to its constraints, is fantastic
I hate going there now .. but I have been in many cities that would envy a transport system as connected and efficient as London’s
London is a fantastic world city
Killboy said:
cb1965 said:
I don't have anything, I have left London behind thankfully.
As for getting outside of the M25... oh the irony... considering I've lived in numerous countries around the world I think my geographical horizons stretch a bit further than the orbital motorway around London.
You make that clear, time and time again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again.As for getting outside of the M25... oh the irony... considering I've lived in numerous countries around the world I think my geographical horizons stretch a bit further than the orbital motorway around London.
cb1965 said:
C70R said:
London's public transport is fantastic and very comprehensive, considering the phenomenal limitations.
No, it's really not. I have lived in several other major cities around the world and all of them had far better transport infrastructures than London. In fact I haven't found a city harder to travel round in my entire 53 years on this planet.You think it's great because you have either have no other benchmarks and/or have been brought up with low expectations and like most people in Britain are happy to put up with crap.
Donbot said:
C70R said:
carrying 87 times as many people in a similar footprint to the average London car
Do busses in London have 10 floors? Or do they stack people in them like Tetris blocks?That said, 87 times in the same footprint is wrong.
It's more like 30 times.
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