RE: Shed of the Week: Alfa Romeo GT
Discussion
renmure said:
I bought one at the end of last year. A 3.2 Busso engined one.
But just wanted this little bit..
To take it out...
It's currently being fully stripped down and rebuilt before it ends up in one of these...
Seems like a fitting rebirth for such an engine.
From the photo, the donor car doesn't look in bad nick - did you part it ?But just wanted this little bit..
To take it out...
It's currently being fully stripped down and rebuilt before it ends up in one of these...
Seems like a fitting rebirth for such an engine.
Fewer on the road, more collectable
Have you got a build journal anywhere ?
My V6 GT and V6 GTV together. GTV better looking IMO but so impractical if you have kids you have to send your luggage by DHL and cut their legs off to get them in the back seats, whereas luggage and kids fit OK into GT. Jamie Porter of Alfa Workshop rates the 3.2 Busso V6 as his all time favourite Alfa engine. You have to drive a Busso engined car to appreciate it, it will pull smoothly from 1200 to 7000 rpm in any gear with no hesitation. You can't do that with any of the current turbo charged 4 cylinder engines we seem to be getting now.
Evanivitch said:
It's interesting how many people are confident it has future classic potential.
The question is, will the Diesel models be included? Or even the JTS for that matter.
Personally i dont see the diesels/JTSses doing well as a classic, diesel by its very nature isnt a thing for most enthusiasts, the JTS just has too much niggles to be a valued engine.The question is, will the Diesel models be included? Or even the JTS for that matter.
And these days, swapping an engine from a JTD/JTS to a V6 or something else is much harder, so unlike the previous GT (the 105), i dont think any number of JTD/JTS cars will find salvation in a heart transplant.
But the V6, absolutely, and personally i would cherrish a good 1.8 as well, last of the twinsparks and all that, even if it is a bit slow for a GT.
Peppka said:
My V6 GT and V6 GTV together. GTV better looking IMO but so impractical if you have kids you have to send your luggage by DHL and cut their legs off to get them in the back seats, whereas luggage and kids fit OK into GT. Jamie Porter of Alfa Workshop rates the 3.2 Busso V6 as his all time favourite Alfa engine. You have to drive a Busso engined car to appreciate it, it will pull smoothly from 1200 to 7000 rpm in any gear with no hesitation. You can't do that with any of the current turbo charged 4 cylinder engines we seem to be getting now.
Agreed on the practicality, took my GF and two kids on holiday for a week with the GT, and just last night it seated four adults in comfort, cant imagine doing the same with a GTV, half the luggage space gets taken up by the spare wheel FFS
VitorioVeloce said:
Nice picture, and set of cars!
Agreed on the practicality, took my GF and two kids on holiday for a week with the GT, and just last night it seated four adults in comfort, cant imagine doing the same with a GTV, half the luggage space gets taken up by the spare wheel FFS
Seat comfort is also very different between the two as well - my GTV had no side support when cornering, and after a long trip in the GTV you'd have to lie on the ground for a while to straighten out.Agreed on the practicality, took my GF and two kids on holiday for a week with the GT, and just last night it seated four adults in comfort, cant imagine doing the same with a GTV, half the luggage space gets taken up by the spare wheel FFS
Chris Type R said:
VitorioVeloce said:
Nice picture, and set of cars!
Agreed on the practicality, took my GF and two kids on holiday for a week with the GT, and just last night it seated four adults in comfort, cant imagine doing the same with a GTV, half the luggage space gets taken up by the spare wheel FFS
Seat comfort is also very different between the two as well - my GTV had no side support when cornering, and after a long trip in the GTV you'd have to lie on the ground for a while to straighten out.Agreed on the practicality, took my GF and two kids on holiday for a week with the GT, and just last night it seated four adults in comfort, cant imagine doing the same with a GTV, half the luggage space gets taken up by the spare wheel FFS
VitorioVeloce said:
it seated four adults in comfort, cant imagine doing the same with a GTV, half the luggage space gets taken up by the spare wheel FFS
True, and the other half is the (relatively) fancy rear suspension which helps make the GTV a more entertaining drive than the GT. All about priorities, and which compromise suits your individual circumstances.jamies30 said:
True, and the other half is the (relatively) fancy rear suspension which helps make the GTV a more entertaining drive than the GT. All about priorities, and which compromise suits your individual circumstances.
You mean the passive rear wheel steer? True but I must admit I always found the GTV more cumbersome than the GT but with high grip levels.The steering is less sharp/pointy and the GT always to me felt more nimble whilst you had to push the GTV quite far to get into a fun zone.
Ah, the GT, my 11th Alfa and the one that finally broke my spirit...
I always liked the look of the GT and after an errant BMW-ist wrote off my treasured 156 Veloce I bought one...in a bit of a rush perhaps?
M200 DRU came in gleaming black with a red leather interior, being a CF3 engined JTD it had no pesky swirl flaps and a recent cambelt change.
What could go wrong then?
In brief:
By far the worse Alfa I've ever owned but I still miss it 2 years later...in between problems it was a great thing to thrash about in, even with the diesel lump which I much preferred over the accursed JTS "Satan engines" as one specialist called them.
It was a lot worse than this photo suggests...the obvious floorpan drain holes were of minor concern overall.
I always liked the look of the GT and after an errant BMW-ist wrote off my treasured 156 Veloce I bought one...in a bit of a rush perhaps?
M200 DRU came in gleaming black with a red leather interior, being a CF3 engined JTD it had no pesky swirl flaps and a recent cambelt change.
What could go wrong then?
In brief:
- The "new" cambelt snapped and I ended up part paying £800 toward the repair bill of £1250!
- Drivers window repeatedly failed, many expensive door modules later I gave up and ran it hardwired via 2 relays and a separate switch.
- Front suspension all started clanking part by part...got the lot Powerflexed at great expense...a waste of money in hindsight.
- Rear suspension collapsed due to rusty spring platform, replaced all components on both sides...a pig of a job as every nut was seized solid.
- Rust...it may have looked shiny but I should have paid more attention to those (previously crushed) sills as this lead to increasing amounts of underside welding at every MOT.
By far the worse Alfa I've ever owned but I still miss it 2 years later...in between problems it was a great thing to thrash about in, even with the diesel lump which I much preferred over the accursed JTS "Satan engines" as one specialist called them.
It was a lot worse than this photo suggests...the obvious floorpan drain holes were of minor concern overall.
DrSteveBrule said:
There’s a 1.8 version as well. Gorgeous looking things, will certainly be buying a Busso one in the near future.
The 1.8 is a hidden gem for almost no money. No, it isn't a sportscar. But for a 147 alternative you can't have a better seat. The leather is one fine hug.Don't mind the squeeks: they will come back but won't harm you.
Bert Cheese said:
- Rust...it may have looked shiny but I should have paid more attention to those (previously crushed) sills as this lead to increasing amounts of underside welding at every MOT.
By far the worse Alfa I've ever owned but I still miss it 2 years later...in between problems it was a great thing to thrash about in, even with the diesel lump which I much preferred over the accursed JTS "Satan engines" as one specialist called them.
It was a lot worse than this photo suggests...the obvious floorpan drain holes were of minor concern overall.
The idea of one of these with the Busso V6 as a practical classic (2 children) is appealing but if they rust like this then perhaps not!
In their wisdom, the Italians built drain holes in the floor, I’m not sure why, perhaps in Italy they hose out their cars or something. It’s not a particularly well engineered drain hole, and it lets water IN, with inevitable consequenses. The 156 also had badly stuck down mastic on the floor which was a perfect condensation trap.
Drain holes are not a big deal, easily welded. Of more concern on these cars are sills that have been jacked by idiots - these split and corrode pretty fatally.
My GT is a 3.2 that I’ve had for 5 years - bought it for 900 quid with a snapped cambelt, most of the engine was in the back in buckets. I gave it a complete rebuild (new big ends, liners, pistons, valves) and it has no put a foot wrong in the subsequent years, other than the alternator regulator dying 2 months ago.
There are a couple of very worthwhile upgrades - I’ve put a Q2 diff in and some KW V3 coilovers - the car has been transformed into something of a beast.
Drain holes are not a big deal, easily welded. Of more concern on these cars are sills that have been jacked by idiots - these split and corrode pretty fatally.
My GT is a 3.2 that I’ve had for 5 years - bought it for 900 quid with a snapped cambelt, most of the engine was in the back in buckets. I gave it a complete rebuild (new big ends, liners, pistons, valves) and it has no put a foot wrong in the subsequent years, other than the alternator regulator dying 2 months ago.
There are a couple of very worthwhile upgrades - I’ve put a Q2 diff in and some KW V3 coilovers - the car has been transformed into something of a beast.
Alex P said:
Blimey! How old was the car and what sort of mileage had it done when the floor was in this condition?
The idea of one of these with the Busso V6 as a practical classic (2 children) is appealing but if they rust like this then perhaps not!
Must be 10+ years old. That rust isn't that bad really - witness hordes Audis, Golfs and BMW's with rotten arches. Look also at all the Ebay ads for reliable VAG and BMW sThe idea of one of these with the Busso V6 as a practical classic (2 children) is appealing but if they rust like this then perhaps not!
te with knackered 4 pot petrols, shagged diesels with timing chains hanging out and so on. Alfas are really no worse than anything else. They're a mass production car built down to a price.The V6 is the only one to preserve as a classic. The four pots are alright but that TS engine was never that great. The V6 though is an engineers wet dream; the quality of the castings, the forged steel crank and rods and stuff like the main and big end caps, held down by studs and nuts where the quality German toss uses stretch bolts. And the noise!
If only they could resurrect it and drop it into a Giulia. Infotainment? 'Just drop the window sir'.
Alex P said:
Blimey! How old was the car and what sort of mileage had it done when the floor was in this condition?
The idea of one of these with the Busso V6 as a practical classic (2 children) is appealing but if they rust like this then perhaps not!
The GT was a 2004 car with around 150,000 miles on when I gave up on it.The idea of one of these with the Busso V6 as a practical classic (2 children) is appealing but if they rust like this then perhaps not!
My previous 156 seen below was a much better example overall, I had 2 virtually trouble free years from it and was remarkably rust free even underneath.
Unfortunately as can be seen someone drove into the back at quite a speed...and that was the end of that, for me at least
So it had done quite a decent mileage then.
Goes to show that, though cars are more rot resistant than 25+ years ago, they do still corrode and manufacturers have become better at 'hiding' the corrosion underneath or behind plastic covers/panels. Your Alfa looked nice and clean in the first two photographs.
A case in point - I decided to spend this afternoon removing the wheels and painting the discs and calipers of my 61 plate/26k mile Mazda 6 to neaten it up - purchased it in January as a family 'wagon' - 1 owner and FSH. The upper body is very clean but all the suspension components are shockinginly crusty for such a low mileage car and there is surface corrosion on some of the inner arch/rear floor areas. In comparison, when I decided to do some preventative work on my parent's Rover 75, it was significantly less rusty than the Mazda on the subframes at 14 years old/80k miles and very little corrosion anywhere else except the rear sill section, which is a known problem on the early Rover 75s.
As the Mazda is there to do a job over the next few years it is not a major concern but I would be rather disappointed if I had intended it to be a 'keeper' - the corrosion puts me off an RX8 more so than the issues with the Rotary engine.
Goes to show that, though cars are more rot resistant than 25+ years ago, they do still corrode and manufacturers have become better at 'hiding' the corrosion underneath or behind plastic covers/panels. Your Alfa looked nice and clean in the first two photographs.
A case in point - I decided to spend this afternoon removing the wheels and painting the discs and calipers of my 61 plate/26k mile Mazda 6 to neaten it up - purchased it in January as a family 'wagon' - 1 owner and FSH. The upper body is very clean but all the suspension components are shockinginly crusty for such a low mileage car and there is surface corrosion on some of the inner arch/rear floor areas. In comparison, when I decided to do some preventative work on my parent's Rover 75, it was significantly less rusty than the Mazda on the subframes at 14 years old/80k miles and very little corrosion anywhere else except the rear sill section, which is a known problem on the early Rover 75s.
As the Mazda is there to do a job over the next few years it is not a major concern but I would be rather disappointed if I had intended it to be a 'keeper' - the corrosion puts me off an RX8 more so than the issues with the Rotary engine.
Test driver said:
The busso and vw vr6 engines are far superior in character to a dreary 4 pot turbo. Shame they don’t make this sort of engine anymore.
Yes, it is a shame nobody makes engines like these any more. But also a shame that the 3.2 litre Busso only produced 237 bhp - my BMW Z4 Coupe has a 3 litre straight 6 that produces 265 bhp!
But if you are in a hurry the M version with the 3.2 litre S54 engine has 343 bhp - why is the Busso so revered?
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