Modern car design
Discussion
In the 1980s, I found that designers tended to make choices based upon a variety of criteria, and had more freedom to do so.
Design features tended to mirror manufacturers' competences, target markets and brand attributes.
NCAP etc. has created a bunch of vehicles with ludicrously-thick A pillars, angled 'just so', vast front overhangs, excessive width, pregnant-looking bonnets, and so on. "Styling" is surface design as much as anything else.
There's little sense of manufacturers doing "their best" and achieving particular pinnacles, because the ingredients are too well-known these days - every vehicle is just a blend of features designed to a price and market profile. And there's no place for a flash of individual brilliance to shine through.
Design features tended to mirror manufacturers' competences, target markets and brand attributes.
NCAP etc. has created a bunch of vehicles with ludicrously-thick A pillars, angled 'just so', vast front overhangs, excessive width, pregnant-looking bonnets, and so on. "Styling" is surface design as much as anything else.
There's little sense of manufacturers doing "their best" and achieving particular pinnacles, because the ingredients are too well-known these days - every vehicle is just a blend of features designed to a price and market profile. And there's no place for a flash of individual brilliance to shine through.
Wooda80 said:
There was an edition of Car Magazine in the mid to late 80s whose cover consisted of a montage of different new cars of the era, all photographed from the same head-on position, and with the strap line "Why do the all look the same?" or words to that effect.
I suspect that small boys today still possess the skill to identify makes and models at 100m even in the dark. It's not just the cars that have changed, you have too!
That Car Magazine cover allegedly triggered a rebound in the form of the Ford Scorpio. But even in the 70s plagiarism was a thing- Escort mk 1 and Cortina mk 3 were fairly hamfisted ripoffs of the Viva HB and Victor FD respectively. I suspect that small boys today still possess the skill to identify makes and models at 100m even in the dark. It's not just the cars that have changed, you have too!
petrolhead4 said:
Btcc_Dan said:
the thing that annoys me about modern cars at the moment is how far up the bonnet the lights are getting.
this one is right up there with this problem
The Nissan Juke is an all round awful car with terrible reviews. I don't understand how there are so many on the road even with the 0% finance offers.this one is right up there with this problem
was walking past a Kia the other day on the similar lines to jukes. think it was a sportage?? and couldn't believe how high up the front end was. you're knackered if you get hit by that.
I think this whole "modern cars all look the same" is a complete load of rubbish. It's the person changing, nothing more. I can still tell every car apart from one another but according to some on here that's completely and utterly impossible. The latest 3 series looks 100% exactly like the current 5 series (apparently). While they do look similar, of course they do, they don't look exactly the same. On the 3 and 5 series note, go and tell me the Triumph Dolomite and Triumph Toledo of the same year look immensely dofferent (they don't, they look similar, just as the latest cars do)
each generation has it's language and it's always been that way.
My big bugbear with modern design is superfluous parts that serve no function whatsoever, such as diffusers, tailpipes, brake vents, let alone spoilers. when these are functioning on a McLaren or a Ferrari they're beautiful, but not a tack-on bits of plastic. Good design to me blends form and function, when it's only for form it's mere fashion.
My big bugbear with modern design is superfluous parts that serve no function whatsoever, such as diffusers, tailpipes, brake vents, let alone spoilers. when these are functioning on a McLaren or a Ferrari they're beautiful, but not a tack-on bits of plastic. Good design to me blends form and function, when it's only for form it's mere fashion.
ArtOfFlight said:
My question is simple. When i was a boy growing up in the mid to late 80's, i could easily spot and identify every single make and model of cars on British roads. But now as car design has reached the stage where aerodynamics and practicality has led manufacturers to abandon character and individuality in favour of boring unified shapes and design looks that make it almost impossible to distinguish one model from another. Does anyone else agree? Be interested to know others opinions on this subject....
In the 70s/80s cars had their similarities - three box saloons etc. As others have said you have less interest now in identifying them all. I also think there are more differences these days as there are many more differences niches of car types! I think what happens is that a manufacturer takes a brave pill and launches something different, all the while trumpeting the “clean sheet of paper” line. Market goes mad for new car. Other manufacturers think we’ll have some of that and produce their next models with similar design cues. Before long the market is full of clones and people complain that cars all look the same these days. Rinse and repeat.
One of the things I don't understand is why everyone seems to want "aggressive styling".
Being aggressive is not seen as a positive trait. If you go to a party and there is an aggressive person, they're seen as rather unpleasant and generally avoided by people who don't seek confrontation. However if you go to a party and see an attractive lady, that is far more appealing than chatting to someone who is loud and aggressive.
So why, when it comes to cars, do people seem to want a road-dominating, aggressive stance in the styling. Surely it would be far more appealing to have something that was delicately styled and attractive.
My only explanation is that aggressive styling is desirable for promoting an aggressive style of driving, whereby bullying other road users is considered normal practice on every journey. For example, spending a majority of the time in L3/L4 on the motorway and moving within 2 seconds of other vehicles who may be ahead in those lanes.
Being aggressive is not seen as a positive trait. If you go to a party and there is an aggressive person, they're seen as rather unpleasant and generally avoided by people who don't seek confrontation. However if you go to a party and see an attractive lady, that is far more appealing than chatting to someone who is loud and aggressive.
So why, when it comes to cars, do people seem to want a road-dominating, aggressive stance in the styling. Surely it would be far more appealing to have something that was delicately styled and attractive.
My only explanation is that aggressive styling is desirable for promoting an aggressive style of driving, whereby bullying other road users is considered normal practice on every journey. For example, spending a majority of the time in L3/L4 on the motorway and moving within 2 seconds of other vehicles who may be ahead in those lanes.
ArtOfFlight said:
My question is simple. When i was a boy growing up in the mid to late 80's, i could easily spot and identify every single make and model of cars on British roads. But now as car design has reached the stage where aerodynamics and practicality has led manufacturers to abandon character and individuality in favour of boring unified shapes and design looks that make it almost impossible to distinguish one model from another. Does anyone else agree? Be interested to know others opinions on this subject....
Back in the 80s there were fewer models to keep track of. Ford would sell you a Fiesta, an Escort, a Cortina or a Granada and that was about it unless you wanted to be a bank robber in a Transit. BMW would sell you a 3 series, 5 series or 7. A big un, a little un and something in between.Now we have most manufacturers selling us sub-Fiesta city cars. Small, medium or big SUVs. Coupes. Roadsters. Crossovers. People carriers. There simply a lot more choice.
Are cars becoming boring? Maybe, maybe not. If we look at the past with rose coloured specs we remember Lancia Stratoses and Sierra Cossies, but we forget the endless Vauxhall Cavaliers.
Are modern cars boring? BMW i8, Ariel Atom or Nomad, Bugatti Chiron, Renault Alpine, Range Rover Evoque, NSX ...
Sure, mainstream cars are more boring, but weren't they always?
It’s simply a mixture of modern legislation, the requirement for volume sales and the requirement for brand identity.
As I frequently reply in similar threads to this, manufacturers will spend a lot of time and money researching what their customers want to buy, and they’ll generally get it right.
Oh, but the VW Golf looks the same as the last one. yes of course it does, it’s a massively successful car why would they risk doing anything else.
Ah, but I can’t tell BMW saloons apart. Er...are you surprised that a customer of a 3 series, typically a company car driver, would like their car to look like a 5 series?
But everything looks the same, apart from the Nissan Juke which is disgusting. Hmmm, but look how many they have sold, they must be appealing to someone.
But why must everything be aggressive and sporty? Because manufacturers can charge a premium for M Sport, AMG line, S Line trim and generally the buying public lap it up.
Not much in the world of volume car manufacturing happens by accident.
As I frequently reply in similar threads to this, manufacturers will spend a lot of time and money researching what their customers want to buy, and they’ll generally get it right.
Oh, but the VW Golf looks the same as the last one. yes of course it does, it’s a massively successful car why would they risk doing anything else.
Ah, but I can’t tell BMW saloons apart. Er...are you surprised that a customer of a 3 series, typically a company car driver, would like their car to look like a 5 series?
But everything looks the same, apart from the Nissan Juke which is disgusting. Hmmm, but look how many they have sold, they must be appealing to someone.
But why must everything be aggressive and sporty? Because manufacturers can charge a premium for M Sport, AMG line, S Line trim and generally the buying public lap it up.
Not much in the world of volume car manufacturing happens by accident.
f1nn said:
It’s simply a mixture of modern legislation, the requirement for volume sales and the requirement for brand identity.
As I frequently reply in similar threads to this, manufacturers will spend a lot of time and money researching what their customers want to buy, and they’ll generally get it right.
Oh, but the VW Golf looks the same as the last one. yes of course it does, it’s a massively successful car why would they risk doing anything else.
The odd one out is Honda with the Civic. The last two generations looked similar, but otherwise they seem to do something new each time, and try to be a bit different.As I frequently reply in similar threads to this, manufacturers will spend a lot of time and money researching what their customers want to buy, and they’ll generally get it right.
Oh, but the VW Golf looks the same as the last one. yes of course it does, it’s a massively successful car why would they risk doing anything else.
The latest Honda Civic is an odd car, at least to my eyes.
It appears to be a collection of swoops, scoops, slashes, fake vents and odd angles that lacks any sort of cohesiveness. It looks shocking in Type R form, and even worse in cooking trim.
But, people seem to be buying them, so what do I know.
It appears to be a collection of swoops, scoops, slashes, fake vents and odd angles that lacks any sort of cohesiveness. It looks shocking in Type R form, and even worse in cooking trim.
But, people seem to be buying them, so what do I know.
Muddle238 said:
One of the things I don't understand is why everyone seems to want "aggressive styling".
Being aggressive is not seen as a positive trait. If you go to a party and there is an aggressive person, they're seen as rather unpleasant and generally avoided by people who don't seek confrontation. However if you go to a party and see an attractive lady, that is far more appealing than chatting to someone who is loud and aggressive.
So why, when it comes to cars, do people seem to want a road-dominating, aggressive stance in the styling. Surely it would be far more appealing to have something that was delicately styled and attractive.
My only explanation is that aggressive styling is desirable for promoting an aggressive style of driving, whereby bullying other road users is considered normal practice on every journey. For example, spending a majority of the time in L3/L4 on the motorway and moving within 2 seconds of other vehicles who may be ahead in those lanes.
I get you, I really do. Dad always bemoans 'aggressive bully-boy' cars, and I'm inclined to agree. Being aggressive is not seen as a positive trait. If you go to a party and there is an aggressive person, they're seen as rather unpleasant and generally avoided by people who don't seek confrontation. However if you go to a party and see an attractive lady, that is far more appealing than chatting to someone who is loud and aggressive.
So why, when it comes to cars, do people seem to want a road-dominating, aggressive stance in the styling. Surely it would be far more appealing to have something that was delicately styled and attractive.
My only explanation is that aggressive styling is desirable for promoting an aggressive style of driving, whereby bullying other road users is considered normal practice on every journey. For example, spending a majority of the time in L3/L4 on the motorway and moving within 2 seconds of other vehicles who may be ahead in those lanes.
However, the flipside. TVR make their new car smiley, you only need to read the TVR thread to see how that's gone down.
f1nn said:
It’s simply a mixture of modern legislation, the requirement for volume sales and the requirement for brand identity.
As I frequently reply in similar threads to this, manufacturers will spend a lot of time and money researching what their customers want to buy, and they’ll generally get it right.
Oh, but the VW Golf looks the same as the last one. yes of course it does, it’s a massively successful car why would they risk doing anything else.
Ah, but I can’t tell BMW saloons apart. Er...are you surprised that a customer of a 3 series, typically a company car driver, would like their car to look like a 5 series?
But everything looks the same, apart from the Nissan Juke which is disgusting. Hmmm, but look how many they have sold, they must be appealing to someone.
But why must everything be aggressive and sporty? Because manufacturers can charge a premium for M Sport, AMG line, S Line trim and generally the buying public lap it up.
Not much in the world of volume car manufacturing happens by accident.
The last bit about sporty styling is really just a UK thing, more than Europe (if we just focused on Europe for the moment). As I frequently reply in similar threads to this, manufacturers will spend a lot of time and money researching what their customers want to buy, and they’ll generally get it right.
Oh, but the VW Golf looks the same as the last one. yes of course it does, it’s a massively successful car why would they risk doing anything else.
Ah, but I can’t tell BMW saloons apart. Er...are you surprised that a customer of a 3 series, typically a company car driver, would like their car to look like a 5 series?
But everything looks the same, apart from the Nissan Juke which is disgusting. Hmmm, but look how many they have sold, they must be appealing to someone.
But why must everything be aggressive and sporty? Because manufacturers can charge a premium for M Sport, AMG line, S Line trim and generally the buying public lap it up.
Not much in the world of volume car manufacturing happens by accident.
Look at it like this BMW sell (and have sold in previous generations) non sporty, more comfort focused versions that have flopped in the UK, but sold well in Europe.
Look at the current gen 5 series (G30) saloon:
Germany - Sport, Luxury Line and M Sport Package
UK - SE or M Sport take your choice, BMW UK removed the option for the luxury line as it just did not sell here.
I think the UK therefore is a "peculiar" market in that everything must look sporty, but in reality is fitted with tiny engines in most cases or the full fat variant that some people may not particularly want.
In some cases I would love versions like that over here (for example the M550i, which is the now infamous 4.4 litre V8 with slightly less go than the M5, but can be specified to look "normal").
And I say all of the above as a 640D Gran Coupe M Sport owner. I much prefer the ride on 17's in the Winter. The 20's are a nightmare, but in Summer are just about "okay".
If you want to achieve the above the only BMW focused variant is to look at Alpina. Hugely frustrating.
Edited by Ninja59 on Tuesday 1st January 12:00
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