Supermarket Fuel, Facts Please
Discussion
Heaveho said:
Spell it any way you want. It's not the same as having a turbocharged petrol car that's relies on knowing the difference between 95 and 99 RON. If you bothered your arse to measure the difference via knock count or ecu timing, you would know the difference. If you drive a dull sh!tter, it won't matter.
If you really want to guarantee to know the difference, buy a modified turbocharged car mapped to run on 99 RON fuel, fill it with supermarket p!ss, and see how long it hangs together when you kick it's brains in for an extended period of time. Don't moan when you get an engine rebuild related bill, you were warned.
Surely those people, who purposely map their car to 99 Ron fuel, will use 99 Ron fuel? If they don't, surely it's they rather than the fuel at fault?If you really want to guarantee to know the difference, buy a modified turbocharged car mapped to run on 99 RON fuel, fill it with supermarket p!ss, and see how long it hangs together when you kick it's brains in for an extended period of time. Don't moan when you get an engine rebuild related bill, you were warned.
For the other 99.9999% of the population (including me with a 450hp turbocharged car), we can continue to use 95, 97, 98 or 99 without worrying about it.
Mr Teddy Bear said:
Supermarket fuels are cheaper for a reason. that reason is that they don't contain the detergent that other quality fuels shell/esso/BP do.
When the chap with his tanker lorry pulls up at the tanks he comes armed with a code. he enters that code during the initiation process before loading a particular customers fuel mix into his tanker. The detergent and various other additives are stored in separate tanks and then blended before filling the tanker.
The supermarkets don't or certainly didn't own their own tankers; that is why shell tankers were seen delivering fuel to the Sainsburys supermarket petrol forecourt in the centre of Telford when I worked up their in the late 90's. It's Sainsburys blend in the tankers however not Shell's!
These pearls of wisdom are from a fuel tanker driver by the way.
There is a thread on this very forum talking about supermarket fuel creaming the fuel pumps on Mondeo's if the nay sayers would like to look for it....
They're cheaper because they exist to bring you to the supermarket. If they weren't cheaper than other sites they wouldn't be as effective. When the chap with his tanker lorry pulls up at the tanks he comes armed with a code. he enters that code during the initiation process before loading a particular customers fuel mix into his tanker. The detergent and various other additives are stored in separate tanks and then blended before filling the tanker.
The supermarkets don't or certainly didn't own their own tankers; that is why shell tankers were seen delivering fuel to the Sainsburys supermarket petrol forecourt in the centre of Telford when I worked up their in the late 90's. It's Sainsburys blend in the tankers however not Shell's!
These pearls of wisdom are from a fuel tanker driver by the way.
There is a thread on this very forum talking about supermarket fuel creaming the fuel pumps on Mondeo's if the nay sayers would like to look for it....
Edited by Mr Teddy Bear on Wednesday 22 August 00:53
Supermarkets can subsidise the sale price if fuel because they have much more non-fuel sales opportunity per consumer than a normal petrol forecourt.
janesmith1950 said:
Mr Teddy Bear said:
Supermarket fuels are cheaper for a reason. that reason is that they don't contain the detergent that other quality fuels shell/esso/BP do.
When the chap with his tanker lorry pulls up at the tanks he comes armed with a code. he enters that code during the initiation process before loading a particular customers fuel mix into his tanker. The detergent and various other additives are stored in separate tanks and then blended before filling the tanker.
The supermarkets don't or certainly didn't own their own tankers; that is why shell tankers were seen delivering fuel to the Sainsburys supermarket petrol forecourt in the centre of Telford when I worked up their in the late 90's. It's Sainsburys blend in the tankers however not Shell's!
These pearls of wisdom are from a fuel tanker driver by the way.
There is a thread on this very forum talking about supermarket fuel creaming the fuel pumps on Mondeo's if the nay sayers would like to look for it....
They're cheaper because they exist to bring you to the supermarket. If they weren't cheaper than other sites they wouldn't be as effective. When the chap with his tanker lorry pulls up at the tanks he comes armed with a code. he enters that code during the initiation process before loading a particular customers fuel mix into his tanker. The detergent and various other additives are stored in separate tanks and then blended before filling the tanker.
The supermarkets don't or certainly didn't own their own tankers; that is why shell tankers were seen delivering fuel to the Sainsburys supermarket petrol forecourt in the centre of Telford when I worked up their in the late 90's. It's Sainsburys blend in the tankers however not Shell's!
These pearls of wisdom are from a fuel tanker driver by the way.
There is a thread on this very forum talking about supermarket fuel creaming the fuel pumps on Mondeo's if the nay sayers would like to look for it....
Edited by Mr Teddy Bear on Wednesday 22 August 00:53
Supermarkets can subsidise the sale price if fuel because they have much more non-fuel sales opportunity per consumer than a normal petrol forecourt.
Heaveho said:
DoubleD said:
So why call it supermarket p!ss when all garages sell it?
Because people will still buy it whatever I call it. I can't legislate for the stupidity of people who live with their head up their arse. It is p!ss. The fact that people buy it doesn't mean it isn't, or make my opinion wrong. You read my post about measuring knock count and timing? It matters on my car, which is why I need to know, and why I can't allow it to be run on it. If you can run your car on it, do so, but it is still an inferior fuel.Very few cars are incapable of being run safely on 95 out of the box. If you get one modified so it can't, then that's your own look-out.
If 10bhp difference in a 300+bhp car is a big everyday relevance to you, rather than merely a pub willy-wave, then can I please ask where you drive so I don't have to share roads with you?
Heaveho said:
The proof is in the fact that everything I own has better throttle response and goes further on a tank of something like Shell Nitro
Octane doesn't directly affect throttle response or economy.The effect of mitigating the lower octane under conditions where pinking arises (tends to be high throttle, relatively low revs in n/a engines, high boost in forced induction) may do. Even an engine that "needs" 99RON won't get any pinking when driven outside those fairly extreme conditions, though.
Heaveho said:
It also means that my modified, turbocharged car, which I've owned for 15 years, and is sensitive to such issues, won't blow up
Pity whoever mapped it couldn't be arsed to do something with a knock-sensor and fallback map, eh?But let's go back to what this thread IS about, shall we?
Would you use Tesco 99RON? If not, why not?
Mr Teddy Bear said:
Supermarket fuels are cheaper for a reason. that reason is that they don't contain the detergent that other quality fuels shell/esso/BP do.
When the chap with his tanker lorry pulls up at the tanks he comes armed with a code. he enters that code during the initiation process before loading a particular customers fuel mix into his tanker. The detergent and various other additives are stored in separate tanks and then blended before filling the tanker.
So that's why contaminated supermarket fuel stories appear from time to time, a driver enters the code incorrectly and delivers a load of Chardonnay instead of 97RON. When the chap with his tanker lorry pulls up at the tanks he comes armed with a code. he enters that code during the initiation process before loading a particular customers fuel mix into his tanker. The detergent and various other additives are stored in separate tanks and then blended before filling the tanker.
Edited by Mr Teddy Bear on Wednesday 22 August 00:53
Heaveho said:
If a car makes more power on higher octane fuel, then comparatively the lower octane fuel is p!ss. If you run a car that can run on p!ss, and are happy to run it on it, no problem. Mine won't. However, I also run my other stuff that will run on p!ss on the higher octane stuff, because I believe that whatever they put in it is good for the engines of my less sensitive vehicles, and the ECU on those vehicles compensates for better fuel and gives better throttle response and mpg due to advancing the timing. My stuff is generally very reliable.
I also change the oil and filter every 5k miles on everything I own ( less on the Evo ), because I like to give my stuff the chance to survive.
I'm not sure why you would go to all that trouble of tuning your car to such high performance and then fill the tank full of p!ss. You wouldn't find Lewis Hamilton filling his car full of that retail p!ss water you are using for Saturday qualifying would you? I also change the oil and filter every 5k miles on everything I own ( less on the Evo ), because I like to give my stuff the chance to survive.
Hopefully you can understand what I'm saying here. Ie, the fuel can only be described as piss when it doesn't do the job its supposed to do....which for most of us, is getting our cars from point A to point B.
Edited by soupdragon1 on Wednesday 22 August 08:42
TooMany2cvs said:
Question for the fuel brand snobs...
Would you fill here?
No, my car doesn’t run on costa coffee or tomatoes Would you fill here?
Seriously though, that’s an Esso petrol station with a Tesco express shop in it, not a Tesco supermarket so it’s Esso fuel. Just like the BP stations with Marks&Spencers shops in them.
TooMany2cvs said:
The effect of mitigating the lower octane under conditions where pinking arises (tends to be high throttle, relatively low revs in n/a engines, high boost in forced induction) may do. Even an engine that "needs" 99RON won't get any pinking when driven outside those fairly extreme conditions, though.
Not so much with modern turbo engines though where knock control is not just a safety feature but a perfectly normal part of their operation. The ECU constantly balances ignition timing and fuelling against knock in a closed loop system that attempts to advance ignition timing and reduce fuelling as much as possible for maximum efficiency. My car analyses the ionisation current across the spark plug gap on each cylinder for knock conditions. The ECU is aware of which cylinder has fired and if a knock signal above a certain level is registered it will gradually retard the ignition timing for the cylinder in question until the knocking ceases. Timing correction for that cylinder then gradually returns to zero unless knock conditions are detected again. That level of knock would be impossible for a driver to detect.
If the mean timing retardation on all cylinders exceeds a certain level then the fuel enrichment will take place. If the mean value of the timing retardation on all cylinders continues to increase despite fuel enrichment then the maximum permissible air mass / combustion will be limited - that's the point at which noticeable knock would occur without control such as high inlet temperatures, maximum boost, etc.
That's why modern turbo cars designed for 98 RON fuel feel much more lively at all engine speeds when running on higher octane fuel, and not just at max boost.
jagnet said:
Not so much with modern turbo engines though where knock control is not just a safety feature but a perfectly normal part of their operation.
My car analyses the ionisation current across the spark plug gap on each cylinder for knock conditions. The ECU is aware of which cylinder has fired and if a knock signal above a certain level is registered it will gradually retard the ignition timing for the cylinder in question until the knocking ceases.
Saab Trionic did that, back in the early 90s.My car analyses the ionisation current across the spark plug gap on each cylinder for knock conditions. The ECU is aware of which cylinder has fired and if a knock signal above a certain level is registered it will gradually retard the ignition timing for the cylinder in question until the knocking ceases.
M1C said:
<watches first 30sec or so then gets bored>Christ, but she's let herself go.
M1C said:
But they will still debate it, seems to sum it up for me. Always used supermarket fuel and always will.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff