Mechanical Sympathy.Thing of the past.
Discussion
DJP said:
Mechanical sympathy is about smooth control inputs, letting the vehicle warm up and not riding the clutch.
Component longevity is about how and where you use the vehicle: Drive mainly on the motorway and brakes, clutches and suspension will last forever. Drive mainly in urban traffic and they won't.
One thing my Mrs does occasionally is hold the car on a hill on the biting point.Component longevity is about how and where you use the vehicle: Drive mainly on the motorway and brakes, clutches and suspension will last forever. Drive mainly in urban traffic and they won't.
She doesn't do that driving my car anymore haha
Escort 1100 from new to 103k miles in 12 years. Clutch was replaced and exhaust replaced. No pads, it had drums all round!
Volvo 740 GL estate. 149k Miles from me in 10 years use.Clutch never needed replacing, some exhaust work. Can’t remember disc or pad life
BMW E36 2.5 I6. 143k mile from new in 19 years. No clutch replacement or work, no exhaust work either. Pads, about every 36k Miles, discs about every 72k.
I would not expect clutch replacements before 150k miles on modern cars. Pads and discs depend almost entirely on user’s foot.
Volvo 740 GL estate. 149k Miles from me in 10 years use.Clutch never needed replacing, some exhaust work. Can’t remember disc or pad life
BMW E36 2.5 I6. 143k mile from new in 19 years. No clutch replacement or work, no exhaust work either. Pads, about every 36k Miles, discs about every 72k.
I would not expect clutch replacements before 150k miles on modern cars. Pads and discs depend almost entirely on user’s foot.
Clutch slave on my ‘96 144k BMW went just before Christmas. On a modern car I’d have been seeing in the new year with my car in pieces and a £6-700 parts bill. Luckily, being an old beemer, a new OEM slave cylinder was a tenth of that price- and two nuts and a hydraulic pipe later I was back in business in time to do the last minute Christmas shopping.
RDMcG said:
EVs will require less mechanical sympathy.
The scary part is they require much less servicing, the the problem in the future is that the service revenue on which dealers depend will be decimated........
I don't know if "scary" is quite the word I'd use personally to describe the prospect of spending a lot less money on keeping my car running...The scary part is they require much less servicing, the the problem in the future is that the service revenue on which dealers depend will be decimated........
xjay1337 said:
DJP said:
Mechanical sympathy is about smooth control inputs, letting the vehicle warm up and not riding the clutch.
Component longevity is about how and where you use the vehicle: Drive mainly on the motorway and brakes, clutches and suspension will last forever. Drive mainly in urban traffic and they won't.
One thing my Mrs does occasionally is hold the car on a hill on the biting point.Component longevity is about how and where you use the vehicle: Drive mainly on the motorway and brakes, clutches and suspension will last forever. Drive mainly in urban traffic and they won't.
She doesn't do that driving my car anymore haha
When I got a manual car again I made a conscious effort not to do this. My habit since has been to put car in neutral and hold on brake, or (if impatient) leave it in 1st, push clutch, and hold on brake.
The interesting thing is that the clutching people rarely seem to actually make a quick getaway. The effort of constantly adjusting things is probably too tiring, and so they don't notice quickly enough when the lights change. Meanwhile, I have one foot on the brake, two eyes on the traffic light, all my other limbs in position to make a quick getaway, and nothing else to think about. I bet over the past 12 years I must have saved a good 1 minute thanks to this, and I've certainly never had to replace a clutch.
to3m said:
A lot of people seem to do this, I think? I'd never really noticed it until I had an automatic car for a while, years ago, and was forced to use the brake to hold it completely still at traffic lights. Facing uphill, completely still, with nothing better to do, it was really noticeable that other cars would always be rolling backwards and forwards slightly, clearly being held on the clutch, presumably in the hope of making a quick getaway. I probably used to do it myself, probably without even really thinking about it, and that's why I never noticed...
When I got a manual car again I made a conscious effort not to do this. My habit since has been to put car in neutral and hold on brake, or (if impatient) leave it in 1st, push clutch, and hold on brake.
The interesting thing is that the clutching people rarely seem to actually make a quick getaway. The effort of constantly adjusting things is probably too tiring, and so they don't notice quickly enough when the lights change. Meanwhile, I have one foot on the brake, two eyes on the traffic light, all my other limbs in position to make a quick getaway, and nothing else to think about. I bet over the past 12 years I must have saved a good 1 minute thanks to this, and I've certainly never had to replace a clutch.
People do this at traffic lights. It is very rare anyone takes their car out of gear and puts the handbrake on nowerdays. They sit there in gear and have disappeared by the time the lights are green. I suppose most new stuff being automatic with electric hand brakes it encourages lazy driving. Ie sitting there on the foot brake When I got a manual car again I made a conscious effort not to do this. My habit since has been to put car in neutral and hold on brake, or (if impatient) leave it in 1st, push clutch, and hold on brake.
The interesting thing is that the clutching people rarely seem to actually make a quick getaway. The effort of constantly adjusting things is probably too tiring, and so they don't notice quickly enough when the lights change. Meanwhile, I have one foot on the brake, two eyes on the traffic light, all my other limbs in position to make a quick getaway, and nothing else to think about. I bet over the past 12 years I must have saved a good 1 minute thanks to this, and I've certainly never had to replace a clutch.
I put the car in neutral, but I sit on the footbrake rather than using the handbrake. I do this so that if somebody drives into the back of me and claims I rolled into them there's an increased chance that somebody else watching had been annoyed enough by the brake lights to remember that they'd seen them active the whole time.
(Anyway, if the hill is steep enough, I probably would have rolled into them anyway. The brakes on my car seem fine, but the handbrake is surprisingly useless...)
(Anyway, if the hill is steep enough, I probably would have rolled into them anyway. The brakes on my car seem fine, but the handbrake is surprisingly useless...)
HustleRussell said:
When I do pads I pretty much always change the discs, even if they're within tolerance. They're bloody cheap.
No not always, front discs alone for mine cost me well over £800, then pads added another £300 ish to the bill...top tip is avoid using brakes unless absolutely essential...
to3m said:
RDMcG said:
EVs will require less mechanical sympathy.
The scary part is they require much less servicing, the the problem in the future is that the service revenue on which dealers depend will be decimated........
I don't know if "scary" is quite the word I'd use personally to describe the prospect of spending a lot less money on keeping my car running...The scary part is they require much less servicing, the the problem in the future is that the service revenue on which dealers depend will be decimated........
TBH, I'm not sure it is the problem for one main reason - the franchise model may well not apply. It doesn't apply for a few mainstream manufacturers now, and it doesn't apply to Tesla. If the dealers aren't independent franchised businesses, then they're not reliant on the service revenue.
An acquaintance has a Model X Tesla - quite the fastest accelerating road car I've been in. It has so many gizmos and trick features I imagine maintenance will become a major issue. For example, the gullwing rear doors can sense if there is sufficient room to open normally or if they should articulate to fit the space available. It's brilliant but it will go wrong in time and need fixing.
Jaguar steve said:
Every time you press a pedal or turn the steering wheel or change a gear it costs you money.
The rougher or harder or longer you press any pedal or turn the steering wheel or change a gear the more it costs.
It's not Rocket Science
Not if you fail to brake sufficiently for a potential hazard because you're trying to save a micron of brake disc wear, and you end up crashing into something.The rougher or harder or longer you press any pedal or turn the steering wheel or change a gear the more it costs.
It's not Rocket Science
My 350z I bought on 35k and it's now on 97k, I swapped the discs around 50k as they were lipped and worn however 50k later the new discs are all looking good with the same pads as well. Original clutch as well (unless someone replaced it earlier which is doubtful) people think the clutches in them only last 30,000 and yet mines utterly fine and you'll find similar in the owners clubs. However driving like a moron will of cause increase the wear.
650i on 27k has lipped discs and I'm wondering what the previous owner has done.
I'm by no means a quiet soft driver but I do look after the cars I own. Slow down for speed bumps avoid pot holes not dump the clutch every set of lights etc.
650i on 27k has lipped discs and I'm wondering what the previous owner has done.
I'm by no means a quiet soft driver but I do look after the cars I own. Slow down for speed bumps avoid pot holes not dump the clutch every set of lights etc.
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