RE: Lords of the Ring: Type R v Trophy-R v Clubsport S
Discussion
Turbobanana said:
I think if I was buying a "hatchback" (hot or otherwise), I'd rather have back seats than a radio or air conditioning. If I didn't need the back seats I'd buy a sports car.
My thoughts exactly. £35k for a 2 seat hatchback?Fair enough if it floats your boat but these things have me in stitches.
Max_Torque said:
Konan said:
The 'ring isn't that bumpy.
Granted, for the 'record' times, they're probably running the kerb, but I'll drive on far worse A-road on a daily basis.
This^^ The 'ring is wide, smooth and pretty much only has 3rd gear and higher corners. Hence, modern hto hatches have huge grip, massive power and total stability, and a bone jarring ride.Granted, for the 'record' times, they're probably running the kerb, but I'll drive on far worse A-road on a daily basis.
if you want a proper B road car, go back and drive something like an old 306 gti-6, which dances over the lumps on its 15" wheels, and oversteers balletic-ally into the next turn/a ditch/an oncoming tractor (** delete as appropriate) at reasonably sensible speeds. Oh, Sure, with just 150bhp, it wouldn't see which way a CivicR had gone, but frankly, who cares?
it would also fold up like a soggy shoe box in a crash, fall apart on a daily basis, rust visibly in front of your eyes, have more breakdowns than Sienna Miller, and have less feature content than a 1952 East Berlin social housing flat ;-)
Judging by the civics universal praise, I wonder how good a hardcore version of it would be, if Mugen got their hands on it, you’re comparing apples and oranges, should compare a standard GTI and a standard Megan against these two.
I wonder how an FN2 Mugen would fair? I remember Matt Watson driving one briefly and praising it.
I wonder how an FN2 Mugen would fair? I remember Matt Watson driving one briefly and praising it.
Chestrockwell said:
I wonder how an FN2 Mugen would fair? I remember Matt Watson driving one briefly and praising it.
I drove one on the road and was a passenger in one on track. Absolutely cracking engine, but I felt the chassis wasn't on a par with an R26.R I owned at the time (although to be fair it was on road tyres vs my .R 888s)Derek Chevalier said:
Chestrockwell said:
I wonder how an FN2 Mugen would fair? I remember Matt Watson driving one briefly and praising it.
I drove one on the road and was a passenger in one on track. Absolutely cracking engine, but I felt the chassis wasn't on a par with an R26.R I owned at the time (although to be fair it was on road tyres vs my .R 888s)
borat52 said:
My thoughts exactly. £35k for a 2 seat hatchback?
Fair enough if it floats your boat but these things have me in stitches.
Fair enough if it floats your boat but these things have me in stitches.
Or 35k on a Z4 coupe/350Z both of which aren't a patch on the Trophy R as a drivers car & are both less practical.
Also they're anything from 25-28k for a Trophy R:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
31-40k for the Clubsport S
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Or if you want rear seats you can get the Trophy S from around 19-23k:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Or Cup S
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
With the VW the Clubsport isn't as close to the S as the two Trophy Meganes but it's still a good car:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
CABC said:
Max_Torque said:
This^^ The 'ring is wide, smooth and pretty much only has 3rd gear and higher corners. Hence, modern hto hatches have huge grip, massive power and total stability, and a bone jarring ride.
if you want a proper B road car, go back and drive something like an old 306 gti-6, which dances over the lumps on its 15" wheels, and oversteers balletic-ally into the next turn/a ditch/an oncoming tractor (** delete as appropriate) at reasonably sensible speeds. Oh, Sure, with just 150bhp, it wouldn't see which way a CivicR had gone, but frankly, who cares?
exactly. the latest hatches are a lot less fun on the road and on UK tracks than lighter cars. the Ring is where Porsche, M3s and fast hatches come alive and the (low power) lightweights feel out of depth. the overlap of the two (Ring vs UK roads) is minimal but marketing/pub rights win. if you want a proper B road car, go back and drive something like an old 306 gti-6, which dances over the lumps on its 15" wheels, and oversteers balletic-ally into the next turn/a ditch/an oncoming tractor (** delete as appropriate) at reasonably sensible speeds. Oh, Sure, with just 150bhp, it wouldn't see which way a CivicR had gone, but frankly, who cares?
I’m sure the 306 GTI-6 would be huge fun more of the time - my old MX5 is engaging from the word go and while I’m not going as fast I’m enjoying it more. I still think the Meg brilliant, but perhaps I need to press it into competition service. Mind you, not seen one on the hillclimb circuit yet, all the RenaultSport’s are Clio’s - probably down to their size?
275 cup-s driver here...with the ohlins and akropovic from the trophy R, but back seats, radio and AC, its an incredible all rounder...Today it was ferry the kids around, last week it had a full set of 888's in the back for a track day at donnington where it was bang on the money, its just a superb car....
Edited by Itsallicanafford on Saturday 25th August 17:53
Sa Calobra said:
Is it wrong to say I don't like any of them and they should be in the overpriced cars thread?
After all they are shopping cars, hatchbacks trying too hard.
Alittle tragic.
Not wrong as such, just mistaken.After all they are shopping cars, hatchbacks trying too hard.
Alittle tragic.
For me it’s easy: the Honda as a daily and the trophy R as a weekend toy. The regular megane is a highly compromised daily (owned a 275 Cup S for 6 months) so the R would be hell I should imagine. As a 2nd car, however, the Trophy R makes a lot of sense. Yes ‘purists’ will remind you of the RWD, ‘proper’ sports cars you could buy for the same money but let’s face it - most of us are not gifted drivers. For the majority, a highly sorted FWD car is going to provide more (and safer) thrills more of the time. They don’t come much more sorted than this.
Itsallicanafford said:
275 cup-s driver here...with the ohlins and akropovic from the trophy R, but back seats, radio and AC, its an incredible all rounder...Today it was ferry the kids around, last week it had a full set of 888's in the back for a track day at donnington where it was bang on the money, its just a superb car....
How old are your kids and is there enough space in the back? I have thought on many occasions about replacing my tweaked E36 with one but not sure it has enough practicality? Also can you easily breach the limits on road...?Edited by Itsallicanafford on Saturday 25th August 17:53
SidewaysSi said:
Itsallicanafford said:
275 cup-s driver here...with the ohlins and akropovic from the trophy R, but back seats, radio and AC, its an incredible all rounder...Today it was ferry the kids around, last week it had a full set of 888's in the back for a track day at donnington where it was bang on the money, its just a superb car....
How old are your kids and is there enough space in the back? I have thought on many occasions about replacing my tweaked E36 with one but not sure it has enough practicality? Also can you easily breach the limits on road...?Edited by Itsallicanafford on Saturday 25th August 17:53
my brother runs a modified 328 E36 on track and he has had a go in the Megane a few times...he doesn’t like it, prefers RWD on track so maybe try one first...for reference, in identical cars, he’s a much faster driver than me..
SidewaysSi said:
Itsallicanafford said:
275 cup-s driver here...with the ohlins and akropovic from the trophy R, but back seats, radio and AC, its an incredible all rounder...Today it was ferry the kids around, last week it had a full set of 888's in the back for a track day at donnington where it was bang on the money, its just a superb car....
How old are your kids and is there enough space in the back? I have thought on many occasions about replacing my tweaked E36 with one but not sure it has enough practicality? Also can you easily breach the limits on road...?Edited by Itsallicanafford on Saturday 25th August 17:53
I agree with the earlier poster, I find it very compromised as a daily, but I use it as a business car so “trivialities” such as the difficult to use nav, crap stereo and poor phone connectivity are a pain. Before I’m accused of being a softy I ran Subaru’s for business cars and has to put up much of this (and a bit more), but my tastes in masochism may not suit others, so worth being aware.
Hope this helps a bit.
Max_Torque said:
If you want a proper B road car, go back and drive something like an old 306 gti-6, which dances over the lumps on its 15" wheels, and oversteers balletic-ally into the next turn/a ditch/an oncoming tractor (** delete as appropriate) at reasonably sensible speeds. Oh, Sure, with just 150bhp, it wouldn't see which way a CivicR had gone, but frankly, who cares?
it would also fold up like a soggy shoe box in a crash, fall apart on a daily basis, rust visibly in front of your eyes, have more breakdowns than Sienna Miller, and have less feature content than a 1952 East Berlin social housing flat ;-)
it would also fold up like a soggy shoe box in a crash, fall apart on a daily basis, rust visibly in front of your eyes, have more breakdowns than Sienna Miller, and have less feature content than a 1952 East Berlin social housing flat ;-)
Enjoyed the article, this is why I like PH.
Somehting to be said for these cars to be a bit too much for real roads, I fairly sure I had more fun in my modified GT86, relatively light yet daily useable (more practical than a 911 as I like to say and more so than two the above cars), and with mods to get great steering feel, suspension (coilovers with hydraulic bumpstops and light wheels), fix the torque and sound issues making it a real characterful NA engine.
Then I needed an estate I broke my head on what to get that could deliver driver involment/enjoyment. Ended up that the only thing that would interest me would be something based on a HH, so it became a Leon ST Cupra manual, long time estate ring record holder. Kinda. Real life only 100kg more than the CS, and with proper Brembo 4-pots in front with the Performance pack. Great basis, but ultimately it was understeery and this was very recognisable: "Sure, they're nice up to a point, but beyond that rather scrappy, vague and unsatisfying". So went out to make it more like the Clubsport S. Lighweight wheels OZ Ultra one size smaller and PSS did wonders for the damping, thicker rear arb, supaloy lower arms with uniball/duraball bushing and more camber/caster with toe-out in front fixed the scrappy vague and unsatisfying bit. Stage 2 engine hardware, shortshift and a light peak boost increase of 0,2bar and a Remus axleback exhaust made the engine a gem, both in response and how it extends to redline, with a enjoyable voice on a stint with the rear seats down. Yet keeping full usuability with a 590l boot and sufficient comfort and toys for family transportation, it's quite a combination of traits. And even modified, not very expensive. Seems like I got to eat my cake and keep it. A CS type car, but with the rear seat and the big boot. But if I would get by with a bit less boot space, a Type R is very appealing to me, without the need to make modifications for greatness. Despite the looks....
Somehting to be said for these cars to be a bit too much for real roads, I fairly sure I had more fun in my modified GT86, relatively light yet daily useable (more practical than a 911 as I like to say and more so than two the above cars), and with mods to get great steering feel, suspension (coilovers with hydraulic bumpstops and light wheels), fix the torque and sound issues making it a real characterful NA engine.
Then I needed an estate I broke my head on what to get that could deliver driver involment/enjoyment. Ended up that the only thing that would interest me would be something based on a HH, so it became a Leon ST Cupra manual, long time estate ring record holder. Kinda. Real life only 100kg more than the CS, and with proper Brembo 4-pots in front with the Performance pack. Great basis, but ultimately it was understeery and this was very recognisable: "Sure, they're nice up to a point, but beyond that rather scrappy, vague and unsatisfying". So went out to make it more like the Clubsport S. Lighweight wheels OZ Ultra one size smaller and PSS did wonders for the damping, thicker rear arb, supaloy lower arms with uniball/duraball bushing and more camber/caster with toe-out in front fixed the scrappy vague and unsatisfying bit. Stage 2 engine hardware, shortshift and a light peak boost increase of 0,2bar and a Remus axleback exhaust made the engine a gem, both in response and how it extends to redline, with a enjoyable voice on a stint with the rear seats down. Yet keeping full usuability with a 590l boot and sufficient comfort and toys for family transportation, it's quite a combination of traits. And even modified, not very expensive. Seems like I got to eat my cake and keep it. A CS type car, but with the rear seat and the big boot. But if I would get by with a bit less boot space, a Type R is very appealing to me, without the need to make modifications for greatness. Despite the looks....
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