RE: Lords of the Ring: Type R v Trophy-R v Clubsport S

[SidewaysSi]

I drove the new I30N and found it competent but dull. Are these much better?

[SidewaysSi]

GibsonSG said:

SidewaysSi said:

Itsallicanafford said:

275 cup-s driver here...with the ohlins and akropovic from the trophy R, but back seats, radio and AC, its an incredible all rounder...Today it was ferry the kids around, last week it had a full set of 888's in the back for a track day at donnington where it was bang on the money, its just a superb car....

Edited by Itsallicanafford on Saturday 25th August 17:53

How old are your kids and is there enough space in the back? I have thought on many occasions about replacing my tweaked E36 with one but not sure it has enough practicality? Also can you easily breach the limits on road...?

My two are 19 and 15 and from a leg room, headroom and width perspective the Meg is fine for them, however visibility is poor with those tiny windows, to the extent that the kids call it Das Boot! We’re in the South of France at the mo and they begged that we travelled in my wife’s Fiesta ST as they find it less claustrophobic.

I agree with the earlier poster, I find it very compromised as a daily, but I use it as a business car so “trivialities” such as the difficult to use nav, crap stereo and poor phone connectivity are a pain. Before I’m accused of being a softy I ran Subaru’s for business cars and has to put up much of this (and a bit more), but my tastes in masochism may not suit others, so worth being aware.

Hope this helps a bit.

Thanks and good to know. My son is 2 and with it comes all the rubbish that needs to be carted about. The rear space looked tight in the Meg but I think I may need to take a better look at one and have a decent drive.

[GibsonSG]

Onehp said:

Enjoyed the article, this is why I like PH.

Somehting to be said for these cars to be a bit too much for real roads, I fairly sure I had more fun in my modified GT86, relatively light yet daily useable (more practical than a 911 as I like to say and more so than two the above cars), and with mods to get great steering feel, suspension (coilovers with hydraulic bumpstops and light wheels), fix the torque and sound issues making it a real characterful NA engine.

It’s off topic but I’d love to know what you did to the GT86 to sort its issues out. I quite fancy one as a dual purpose daily/competition car but when I last test drove one I didn’t like the torque dip, the steering seemed a bit off (hard to explain) and what I felt was deliberately compromised traction. Happy for you to PM me if that keep this thread on track.

[marcusjames]

I have a Trophy R and agree with the writer about discovering new things about it on each drive. It’s a tarmac rally car at some times and then a smooth track weapon at others.

Mine has the R-Link option so I can call people to rave about it via Bluetooth 😉

[Onehp]

GibsonSG said:

It’s off topic but I’d love to know what you did to the GT86 to sort its issues out. I quite fancy one as a dual purpose daily/competition car but when I last test drove one I didn’t like the torque dip, the steering seemed a bit off (hard to explain) and what I felt was deliberately compromised traction. Happy for you to PM me if that keep this thread on track.

Listed here, whole history is there, good forum to ask more questions too:
http://www.gt86ownersclub.co.uk/forum/18-members-p...

[DoubleD]

marcusjames said:

I have a Trophy R and agree with the writer about discovering new things about it on each drive. It’s a tarmac rally car at some times and then a smooth track weapon at others.

Mine has the R-Link option so I can call people to rave about it via Bluetooth ??

Great cars out of the box these. No need for lots of mods.

[Omega1987]

That was a really enjoyable read, thanks.

It's amazing to see how fast these FWD hot hatches have become and interesting to note that the AWD hot hatches like the Focus RS, Merc AMG and Audi S3 are all slower cars in every aspect bar 0-60.

Personally, of the three I'd have the Civic but would also consider the non nurburgring tested Peugeot 308 GTi (especially if the rumour mill is correct and we've got a 310hp one heading our way). In the meantime I'm quite happy with my Peugeot 208 GTi.

[ash reynolds]

Olivera said:

They fitted bells and larger discs to the Clubsport S. If it can set a Nurburgring lap record then suffice to say it must have 'serious brakes' that are more than good enough for the road.

amongst other changes the Clubsport S got some custom suspension knuckles, revised damping and the same tyres as a 911 GT3.

I'd take one out of these three.

They're good enough for the road, I didn't mean they weren't. Either way, it still has massively heavy single piston calipers that look closely related to the S3 and R32 calipers and they are HEAVY, really heavy. Most of these will never go near a track in which case the marketing people have hit their target. The 'Ring' is high speed circuit which, when driven by a pro, can be light on brakes. Particularly when a car of this power and weight are probably flat out for the most part with short sharp braking followed by long cooling periods for the brakes. I will accept it's suspension setup is better than the brakes, a bigger contributing factor to the fast time.

If you put this car on a typical UK circuit that punishes brakes it will show it's flaws in that department. VW have history of this when you look at parallel models from Seat over the years where Brembo parts were used.

For the road you could also forgo the rear seat removal. This is where it's at odds, 'good enough for the road' but doesn't have a rear seat and has a rear strut brace. Which they did with the Clubsport and then created the evolutionary development and called it the 'S' and put a suitable premium on it after removing kit and making it 'appear' more focused.

It would be more in keeping if it was sporting a lightweight set of AP four pot calipers with discs and actually had a rear seat. They took something out and charged more for it, because they could. The differences are not expensive changes for VW and many of the parts already existed in their parts bins.

Although the GT3 and this share the same tyres they can still be different blends of compound making them essentially quite different in application. Porsche have had exclusive compounds in the past.

I'm not meaning to suggest it's a poor car, it's successful and sold out pretty much instantly. Although these cars appear to belong to the same family they are all quite different.

[E65Ross]

Turbobanana said:

I can't decide which is more surprising :

- that a journalist makes such a fuss about the lack of a radio and air conditioning in a stripped-out, track focused car, or

- that two out of three manufacturers claiming to produce such cars include such features (caveat : the Honda is not track focused)

I think if I was buying a "hatchback" (hot or otherwise), I'd rather have back seats than a radio or air conditioning. If I didn't need the back seats I'd buy a sports car.

Not a chance I'd be without air conditioning for a measly 10kgs

[Bright Halo]

I think Honda could launch two other versions of the Type R.
A more refined version without all the wings and bling to compete more with the Golf R etc and a paired back Mugen track beast that would in all likelihood wipe the floor with any other hot hatch when it comes to track work.

[CABC]

Bright Halo said:

I think Honda could launch two other versions of the Type R.
A more refined version without all the wings and bling to compete more with the Golf R etc and a paired back Mugen track beast that would in all likelihood wipe the floor with any other hot hatch when it comes to track work.

you're right. many would actually get their wallet out for such all round competent car with Honda build quality, but the CTR stands out too much. I can just about tolerate a GT86's silly rear wing and oversized tailpipes, but CTR goes way beyond that.
Last century, wasn't the "ES" the toned down sports model?

[nickfrog]

Agree with Ash R, the limiting factor on braking will be the front tyre adhesion even on proper rubber.. .until you cook the pads which will be difficult at the Ring given how much lateral this car has, particularly for just a couple of hot laps driven by someone who knows his way round

[GibsonSG]

Onehp said:

Listed here, whole history is there, good forum to ask more questions too:
http://www.gt86ownersclub.co.uk/forum/18-members-p...

Thanks very much for that

[Housey]

I am considering a Type R at the moment. It's a tough one as I am 51 so aesthetics are laughable but planning to use it as my daily run about to keep miles off my more special car. Having driven it I can see what all the fuss is about. It is exceptional, truly fantastic as an all round and relatively practical daily car that can put a smile on your face on the right roads. Makes the Golf R appear as a plan boring invisible nothing. Sure the Golf R is quicker in a straight line, looks better and is more discreet, but when it comes A to B in the most exciting way possible the Golf R is MILES off.

[macky17]

Housey said:

I am considering a Type R at the moment. It's a tough one as I am 51 so aesthetics are laughable but planning to use it as my daily run about to keep miles off my more special car. Having driven it I can see what all the fuss is about. It is exceptional, truly fantastic as an all round and relatively practical daily car that can put a smile on your face on the right roads. Makes the Golf R appear as a plan boring invisible nothing. Sure the Golf R is quicker in a straight line, looks better and is more discreet, but when it comes A to B in the most exciting way possible the Golf R is MILES off.

I agree with your last point but still believe the golf R would be a better daily. In 27 years of driving and some 50 cars it's the best daily I've ever had.

[macky17]

marcusjames said:

I have a Trophy R and agree with the writer about discovering new things about it on each drive. It’s a tarmac rally car at some times and then a smooth track weapon at others.

Mine has the R-Link option so I can call people to rave about it via Bluetooth ??

How hard is it compared to an ohlin equipped regular RS megane? I remember the r26r was actually more comfortable than the r26 as lighter weight allowed for more forgiving springs. I take it this isn't the case with the later R?

[marcusjames]

macky17 said:

How hard is it compared to an ohlin equipped regular RS megane? I remember the r26r was actually more comfortable than the r26 as lighter weight allowed for more forgiving springs. I take it this isn't the case with the later R?

I’ve not driven the regular car but wouldn’t consider mine too hard on the road. It’s certainly raw and loud but damping is good.

[macky17]

marcusjames said:

macky17 said:

How hard is it compared to an ohlin equipped regular RS megane? I remember the r26r was actually more comfortable than the r26 as lighter weight allowed for more forgiving springs. I take it this isn't the case with the later R?

I’ve not driven the regular car but wouldn’t consider mine too hard on the road. It’s certainly raw and loud but damping is good.

Interesting. Need to try one I think.

[ST66N]

macky17 said:

Housey said:

I am considering a Type R at the moment. It's a tough one as I am 51 so aesthetics are laughable but planning to use it as my daily run about to keep miles off my more special car. Having driven it I can see what all the fuss is about. It is exceptional, truly fantastic as an all round and relatively practical daily car that can put a smile on your face on the right roads. Makes the Golf R appear as a plan boring invisible nothing. Sure the Golf R is quicker in a straight line, looks better and is more discreet, but when it comes A to B in the most exciting way possible the Golf R is MILES off.

I agree with your last point but still believe the golf R would be a better daily. In 27 years of driving and some 50 cars it's the best daily I've ever had.

I had a FK2 for 18 months and I’ve spent a lot of time in the Golf R. The Golf is maybe slightly more relaxing to drive and it has the 4wd which is obviously more practical if you need something you have to be able to drive in the snow. Apart from that there is nothing hard to live with about the Civics, if you’re comfortable in the Recaros the sat Nav and Bluetooth etc are all very easy. I really enjoyed the gear shift and the sense of occasion every time you get in the Civic. Maybe for big miles in bad weather I’d go auto Golf but other than that the Civic would be the better option for me.

The thing about Civics is they get under your skin from the first test drive. I’m already starting to think about when I might be able to pick up an FK8 at the right money as a long term keeper.

[macky17]

ST66N said:

I had a FK2 for 18 months and I’ve spent a lot of time in the Golf R. The Golf is maybe slightly more relaxing to drive and it has the 4wd which is obviously more practical if you need something you have to be able to drive in the snow. Apart from that there is nothing hard to live with about the Civics, if you’re comfortable in the Recaros the sat Nav and Bluetooth etc are all very easy. I really enjoyed the gear shift and the sense of occasion every time you get in the Civic. Maybe for big miles in bad weather I’d go auto Golf but other than that the Civic would be the better option for me.

The thing about Civics is they get under your skin from the first test drive. I’m already starting to think about when I might be able to pick up an FK8 at the right money as a long term keeper.

A friend of mine has an fk2 CTR which I’ve driven on numerous occasions. It’s a fantastic car - great chassis, handling, seats, gearchange, engine- the list goes on. For me though it’s too hard riding to be a daily. The roads around here are crap and it really seems to find every imperfection and telegraph it to your spine. For a blast I’d take it over the golf, the other 90% of the time I’m happier where I am. Of course, I am old... (47)

The fk8 may be different and like you I’m considering one when depreciation has worked it’s magic on someone else’s wallet...

Edited by macky17 on Sunday 26th August 19:37