RE: Turbochargers beckon for next-gen 911 GT3
Discussion
kambites said:
wst said:
I'm wondering how long it is until Porsche makes a mid-engined 911.
They already do - the Cayman is a mid-engined 911. wst said:
mean where it has the name "911", has the shape of a 911, and isn't crippled by "we can't make this better than the 911", but yes, I expected this answer.
Hmm, I can't see them taking the 911 brand down the pure 2-seater path and mid-engined 2+2s are quite difficult to do well. I'd like to see Porsche let the Cayman/Boxster come out of the 911s shadow but I can't see it replacing the 911. Every time Porsche are mentioned developing the next GT3. There's ALWAYS a sodding article telling us it will be Turbo. 
As for GT3. Having driven a 997 twice and then a 991.1 several times. Believe me, they are legendary cars! All that mechanical noise at idle, THAT exhaust note change at 4K. Such an exciting car!
Mackofthejungle said:
It's a bland lineup of 911s anyway. The GT3 never really interested me in the first place - it's all show, all "look at my wings and stupid seats" - it's been a statement car for 10 years now. "Yeah, it's a bit compromised, but I just need to feel everything" - yeah, no one cares, and you don't know what you're talking about.
Get a 996 3.4 while you can I say - the last great honest 911. They look and sound so good now - so small, so delicate, so unassuming.
996? Are you high? Get a 996 3.4 while you can I say - the last great honest 911. They look and sound so good now - so small, so delicate, so unassuming.
As for GT3. Having driven a 997 twice and then a 991.1 several times. Believe me, they are legendary cars! All that mechanical noise at idle, THAT exhaust note change at 4K. Such an exciting car!
The numbers, power and performance, don't mean a thing other than for willy-waving and marketing b
ks, when even the most basic performance car is far too fast to be driven properly on the roads in 99.99% of situations.
A turbocharged car, no matter how good, can never match the best NA for throttle response, sound, and just pure character. If you want a turbocharged 911 then you are already spoiled for choice, from Carrera to Turbo to GT2. The GT3 is the last bastion of the NA 911, so it would be a tragedy if that too went turbocharged.
ks, when even the most basic performance car is far too fast to be driven properly on the roads in 99.99% of situations.A turbocharged car, no matter how good, can never match the best NA for throttle response, sound, and just pure character. If you want a turbocharged 911 then you are already spoiled for choice, from Carrera to Turbo to GT2. The GT3 is the last bastion of the NA 911, so it would be a tragedy if that too went turbocharged.
Lets be a little careful about calling a 991 a 991.
I had a GTS 991 for about two months before my GT3. It offered little feedback, a disappointing gearbox setup and just didn’t feel special at all especially for the price. The GT3 chatters and talks to you through every part of it at even 40mph - it’s a very, very special car. I’d respectfully call out anyone saying it’s just wings and seats as someone with little or no seat time in the car. Of course if that’s not the case then fair play - we all have the right to a respected opinion. 996? 986? Yep - both fabulous too it has to be said. In fact, the 986s when properly fettled is a remarkable little machine.
But if Porsche decide to do a GT3 Turbo (think of a GT2 scaled back slightly so that it’s a little less race car) then I just can’t see that that’s a bad thing. And if you want an NA GT3 there are plenty for sale in decent shape on the used market.
We are going to have to start accepting that the days of actual tangible improvement in cars year to year has ended. No longer is the “old model” always inferior. Now we have only changes that bring new horizons. Some bad and some good. You have to take your pick.
I had a GTS 991 for about two months before my GT3. It offered little feedback, a disappointing gearbox setup and just didn’t feel special at all especially for the price. The GT3 chatters and talks to you through every part of it at even 40mph - it’s a very, very special car. I’d respectfully call out anyone saying it’s just wings and seats as someone with little or no seat time in the car. Of course if that’s not the case then fair play - we all have the right to a respected opinion. 996? 986? Yep - both fabulous too it has to be said. In fact, the 986s when properly fettled is a remarkable little machine.
But if Porsche decide to do a GT3 Turbo (think of a GT2 scaled back slightly so that it’s a little less race car) then I just can’t see that that’s a bad thing. And if you want an NA GT3 there are plenty for sale in decent shape on the used market.
We are going to have to start accepting that the days of actual tangible improvement in cars year to year has ended. No longer is the “old model” always inferior. Now we have only changes that bring new horizons. Some bad and some good. You have to take your pick.
Wills2 said:
Mr Whippy said:
Turbo, electric, NA, whatever.
As long as the throttle does it’s job and gives you what you ask for quickly, great.
But no turbo driven off exhaust gasses only, ever will, by design.
Only the P1 McLaren does the job properly and I can’t see why others aren’t doing it on top performance cars.
Or even any performance car.
Electric and turbo are the future etc, but that doesn’t mean they have to be crappy lazy cheap implementations.
The issue is manufacturers being cheap, lazy, and unwilling to take even tiny risks.
Weird isn't it that £1 million hypercar is better than a 50k performance car, very strange I wonder why they can't give you the same experience for a 20th of the price? As long as the throttle does it’s job and gives you what you ask for quickly, great.
But no turbo driven off exhaust gasses only, ever will, by design.
Only the P1 McLaren does the job properly and I can’t see why others aren’t doing it on top performance cars.
Or even any performance car.
Electric and turbo are the future etc, but that doesn’t mean they have to be crappy lazy cheap implementations.
The issue is manufacturers being cheap, lazy, and unwilling to take even tiny risks.
The costs aren’t the issue, at least not to the extreme you make out.
I think the issue is the will to just do it.
In fact I’m sure the P1 isn’t alone in this feature.
Pretty sure my brother had an awd hybrid Citroen thing with diesel front and leccy rear and in sport mode it was lag free.
This seems to be a bit of a storm in a teacup to me.
I remember when the 996 came out and everyone bemoaned the loss of the air-cooled engines. And then Porsche owners flocked to the new model. And it was the same with PDK, and it was the same with 4 wheel drive, and more recently the move to paddle shift boxes on the GT3.
It's always the same, a load of noise followed by a move to buy the latest tech model.
I remember when the 996 came out and everyone bemoaned the loss of the air-cooled engines. And then Porsche owners flocked to the new model. And it was the same with PDK, and it was the same with 4 wheel drive, and more recently the move to paddle shift boxes on the GT3.
It's always the same, a load of noise followed by a move to buy the latest tech model.
I just don't get the hate for turbocharged engines. The technology for zero lag has been around for donkeys years, just look at WRC for a start.
My experience of high revving NA engines is mixed. In a fun car great but for a daily they can be exasperating IMHO. My CTR was gutless low down, my brother's Boxster S so linear it feels flat (but does sound good), and the 430 F1 I drove in Italy magnificent and sounded even better.
Give me a Vtec powered Elise for fun and a Golf R estate for daily duties ta. These are real world choices not my dream garageI might add.
My experience of high revving NA engines is mixed. In a fun car great but for a daily they can be exasperating IMHO. My CTR was gutless low down, my brother's Boxster S so linear it feels flat (but does sound good), and the 430 F1 I drove in Italy magnificent and sounded even better.
Give me a Vtec powered Elise for fun and a Golf R estate for daily duties ta. These are real world choices not my dream garageI might add.
JMF894 said:
I just don't get the hate for turbocharged engines. The technology for zero lag has been around for donkeys years, just look at WRC for a start.
My experience of high revving NA engines is mixed. In a fun car great but for a daily they can be exasperating IMHO. My CTR was gutless low down, my brother's Boxster S so linear it feels flat (but does sound good), and the 430 F1 I drove in Italy magnificent and sounded even better.
Give me a Vtec powered Elise for fun and a Golf R estate for daily duties ta. These are real world choices not my dream garageI might add.
Valid points and I think a torquey turbo engine is ideal for everyday driving, but I don't think that really applies to a GT3. Firstly, it's not really an everyday car - it's all about excitement. Secondly, it already has a 4 litre engine, so even if it's peaky in relative terms it'll still have plenty of shove lower compared to 90% of the cars on the road, and when extended it's massively fast - I don't see that it would be improved by making that more easily accessible in the way that it's useful to be able to extract most of the performance from 2 litre diesel family car with zero effort. My experience of high revving NA engines is mixed. In a fun car great but for a daily they can be exasperating IMHO. My CTR was gutless low down, my brother's Boxster S so linear it feels flat (but does sound good), and the 430 F1 I drove in Italy magnificent and sounded even better.
Give me a Vtec powered Elise for fun and a Golf R estate for daily duties ta. These are real world choices not my dream garageI might add.
Anyway my whinging is irrelevant because I won't have the means to buy one, and if I did I probably still wouldn't be able to get hold of one. It's probably still brilliant and they'll sell as many as they can make.
nutbehinddawheel said:
Going turbo doesn’t seem to be an issue for Ferrari, ala Pista, so why should the GT3 be any different ?
it depends what you mean by an issue, the pisa is the most unappealiing limited edition ferrari for awhile imonot through fault of their own but we've reached that strange point now where we don't need any more power for the road
I would have thought that with the hybrids and smaller capacity turbos, Porsche had enough emissions points to keep the GT3 N/A, they have a pretty clearly defined range with the GT3 and GT2, surely it makes the most financial sense to keep it as its USP.
This rumour doesn't make sense at all, the RSR is N/A and winning (sounding bloody good doing it), the Boxster Spider is "rumoured" to be N/A which would imply the next Cayman GT4 will be also, why then change the GT3?
This rumour doesn't make sense at all, the RSR is N/A and winning (sounding bloody good doing it), the Boxster Spider is "rumoured" to be N/A which would imply the next Cayman GT4 will be also, why then change the GT3?
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