RE: Alpine A110 vs. Porsche 718 Cayman
Discussion
Sigh, why do daft things get said?
The 4C sold the square root of Every. Single. Car. Made. In. The. Production. Run.
They are never going to lose money either from
now on, the simple market dynamics of not made anymore, ltd run and Italian will see to that.
None of which is applicable to the Alpine or the Cayman.
I only have one comment on the Alpine and that’s the access issue Harry raised. As a bloke who does use this stuff as a daily driver - that would drive me nuts!!!
The 4C sold the square root of Every. Single. Car. Made. In. The. Production. Run.
They are never going to lose money either from
now on, the simple market dynamics of not made anymore, ltd run and Italian will see to that.
None of which is applicable to the Alpine or the Cayman.
I only have one comment on the Alpine and that’s the access issue Harry raised. As a bloke who does use this stuff as a daily driver - that would drive me nuts!!!
blueg33 said:
Schmed said:
But, if I’m putting 50k of my own money into a depreciating asset there is no way it’s going to have any association with Renault, no matter how solid the F1 racing history.
Why? I can assure you that a £50k new Cayman will depreciate, possibly faster than the Alpine, they certainly depreciate faster than a £50k Lotus or an Alfa 4c. The longer the hold the more marked the difference in depreciation. Eg you can easily find a £6k Boxster but it’s muvh harder to find an Elise that cheap. Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 3rd October 20:14
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-cost...
DeejRC said:
Sigh, why do daft things get said?
I only have one comment on the Alpine and that’s the access issue Harry raised. As a bloke who does use this stuff as a daily driver - that would drive me nuts!!!
What access issue? The A110 is exceptional in that respect - especially for a car with bucket seats. The only access issue I am aware of is the rear boot where the opening is very small. Not really that much of a problem (unlike the similar issue on the Elise) since you have the front boot as well.I only have one comment on the Alpine and that’s the access issue Harry raised. As a bloke who does use this stuff as a daily driver - that would drive me nuts!!!
springfan62 said:
aaron_2000 said:
But how will the neighbours know how well it drives? That's all that matters 
No but they will have a quiet snigger when the 718 starts up.rockin said:
Give Porsche their due - they're still offering manual transmission in their sports cars whereas many other manufacturers don't.
true.it's a shame that you only need 2nd to exceed the speed limit though. high ratios aren't just a Porsche problem, but at least some of their engines sound great at high revs.
Schmed said:
Seems the Alpine has a bit higher depreciation as the residual is lower.
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-cost...
A totally meaningless comparison. No-one knows exactly what the depreciation of the PE will be in 3 years - but I'd eat my hat if it was 50%. Since leasing companies don't have any prior knowledge they are bound to be very conservative (in their favour). If the waiting list for the Alpine remains at 12 months plus (which seems likely for quite a while to come), discounts will continue to be unavailable and residuals high.https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-cost...
Schmed said:
Seems the Alpine has a bit higher depreciation as the residual is lower.
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-cost...
Yes but you have conveniently forgotten to add in all the extras the 718 would need and nearly everyone adds. https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-cost...
They don't add much to resale value either.
Porsche are very clever, by having a low base price for a very basic car everyone has to add loads to it just to get to a normal specification.
Then when its sold 3 years later its compared to the original list price not the highly inflated transaction price.
Its only PCP fan boys who are really bothered by it anyway as they are going to be swapping it in 3 years, true enthusiasts will be keeping the car long term and by that point the plentiful cars will drop in value and the rarer more interesting ones such as the Alpine and 4c will stabilise.
Schmed said:
This is getting to be a bit of an urban myth in my view. On startup the 718 sounds pretty aggressive and is definitely very sports-car like. I can say this having previously owned a 981 F6.
Might be ok at higher speed but sounds pretty dreadful to me at low speed when they drive past.Anyway even Porsches own fanboys seem to disagree with you and depreciation on the 981 has slowed, a sure sign of where demand is.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Schmed said:
Seems the Alpine has a bit higher depreciation as the residual is lower.
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-cost...
The basis of their calculation being what exactly ? They put a potato in their pocket, stood on pig and threw spaghetti numbers into the lawn?https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-cost...
There are 120/130 PE cars including dealer demo cars. There is a waiting list for the pure / legende. I’m not sure there will be that many for sale at any one time unlike a cayster. Hence I think that calculation is fundamentally flawed..but it’s not really an issue for me as I buy cars I want, not cars I want to change every three years.
A quick google of Alpine A110 residuals brings up Parkers as the first site. They confirm what I have said....” strong residuals due to high demand and limited supply”.
Fleet News is hardly the publication of choice for a bespoke sports car valuation I would have thought. You must have done some digging for that...
springfan62 said:
Schmed said:
Seems the Alpine has a bit higher depreciation as the residual is lower.
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-cost...
Yes but you have conveniently forgotten to add in all the extras the 718 would need and nearly everyone adds. https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-cost...
They don't add much to resale value either.
Porsche are very clever, by having a low base price for a very basic car everyone has to add loads to it just to get to a normal specification.
Then when its sold 3 years later its compared to the original list price not the highly inflated transaction price.
Its only PCP fan boys who are really bothered by it anyway as they are going to be swapping it in 3 years, true enthusiasts will be keeping the car long term and by that point the plentiful cars will drop in value and the rarer more interesting ones such as the Alpine and 4c will stabilise.
Schmed said:
Depreciation in that example is 26,520 on the Alpine vs 12,672 on the Cayman, i.e. over double. That's a huge saving on the Porsche because they got the Alpine pricing wrong imo. It's also a lot of unnecessary options, since in truth the basic 718 is quite well specced these days compared to the 981, you even get nav and bluetooth as standard. Personally I'd rather have the flexibility to spec it how I want rather than being forced to pay more for options I don't value.
I think it’s too early to say how the Alpine will depreciate but I think Renault will want to produce and sell as many as they can, no different to Porsche. The 4c was a commercial flop so limited numbers and the bespoke materials could see it as the best long term investment of the three.Miserablegit said:
A quick google of Alpine A110 residuals brings up Parkers as the first site. They confirm what I have said....” strong residuals due to high demand and limited supply”.
A lot of people here with their heads in the sand imo, but at least you are enjoying your cars even if they are costing you more 
TBF the Alpine residual is indeed strong at 48%; but is certainly not strong compared to the Porsche "badge" @ 70%.
Helicopter123 said:
springfan62 said:
No but they will have a quiet snigger when the 718 starts up.
Can you elaborate please, sounds ok to me, quite menacing on start up?https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I haven't read many reviews either where the sound has been complimented, its largely a negative aspect of an otherwise great car.
Although I think the overly long, autobahn gearing, would also put me off.
Personally not a fan of the sound but if you like it thats fine.
Helicopter123 said:
Schmed said:
Depreciation in that example is 26,520 on the Alpine vs 12,672 on the Cayman, i.e. over double. That's a huge saving on the Porsche because they got the Alpine pricing wrong imo. It's also a lot of unnecessary options, since in truth the basic 718 is quite well specced these days compared to the 981, you even get nav and bluetooth as standard. Personally I'd rather have the flexibility to spec it how I want rather than being forced to pay more for options I don't value.
I think it’s too early to say how the Alpine will depreciate but I think Renault will want to produce and sell as many as they can, no different to Porsche. The 4c was a commercial flop so limited numbers and the bespoke materials could see it as the best long term investment of the three.Personally. This means that the Alpine will be less common and that tends to improve depreciation as you say is demonstrated by the 4. Lotus products see a similar effect.
This conversation is falling into the ridiculous- Not everyone buys a toy for residuals...It's a nice bonus. "I bought a sportscar the other day", "Did you?, I was going to but the residuals were awful. I bought a Georgian mahogany tray top commode instead- bloody comfortable and great residuals".
They are bought for fun and on this basis the Alpine delivers. I'm happy that Cayster owners feel the same about their cars.
For all the chat of manual gearboxes, as has been said, given that the caysters are long-geared there won't be much cog-swapping in the typical b-road blast anyway.
First to second then second...second....second...possibly first...second. The fact that long-gearing saves a cog-change for the "0-60" and "0-100" times might be to improve those times but the A110 manages all that with a number of changes in the electronic 'box. Far more fun for me.
They are bought for fun and on this basis the Alpine delivers. I'm happy that Cayster owners feel the same about their cars.
For all the chat of manual gearboxes, as has been said, given that the caysters are long-geared there won't be much cog-swapping in the typical b-road blast anyway.
First to second then second...second....second...possibly first...second. The fact that long-gearing saves a cog-change for the "0-60" and "0-100" times might be to improve those times but the A110 manages all that with a number of changes in the electronic 'box. Far more fun for me.
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