RE: Alpine A110 vs. Porsche 718 Cayman

[aaron_2000]

I don't get the £50k Renault thing at all. Which sounds worse? That you had £50k to spend on a Renault, or that you didn't have enough for a 911? Think I'd much prefer the Lighter, faster, arguably better looking Alpine over the now dated Cayman.

[mlcgd21]

Swalsey said:

Why does the article compare every Lotus except the Elise, when the Elise 220 is a direct competitor, £7k cheaper and lighter? It's not new, but if it ain't broke...
The A110 sits between Cayman and Elise in many respects so surely any buyer would at least consider a manual, supercharged, lighter Elise. They aren't that 'raw'.

I had a mk3 Elise S 220 for 3 years, sold it this month and got my A110 delivered this June, the usability of the Alpine cannot be compared to the Lotus, the Alpine is a completely usable car with all the comforts you would want and need, also it is easy to get in and out, the Elise was a nightmare in that aspect, the driving caracteristics are similar but the Alpine offers so much more, you can easily take it on big trips like I already done on mine, something that I never wanted to do in the Lotus. Two great cars (I have had 2 Elises now) but the Alpine is much more complete, and much more comfortable, I'm really impressed by how good the suspension is. The Alpine may be a little more expensive than the Elise 220 but it is the better value.

[mlcgd21]

80sMatchbox said:

On Twitter, Instagram etc I've seen a few people post photos of theirs. There's many well know driving enthusiasts with multiple car garages who have taken delivery of theirs. And I get that,as I do with Gordon above. I'm sure it's a blast to drive. But if you've got £50k to buy 1 car in maybe a 2 car garage, I think the Porsche makes more sense.

I totally agree, I bought the Alpine but if I had 50k to buy only one car I would buy the Porsche too.

[Venisonpie]

mlcgd21 said:

I had a mk3 Elise S 220 for 3 years, sold it this month and got my A110 delivered this June, the usability of the Alpine cannot be compared to the Lotus, the Alpine is a completely usable car with all the comforts you would want and need, also it is easy to get in and out, the Elise was a nightmare in that aspect, the driving caracteristics are similar but the Alpine offers so much more, you can easily take it on big trips like I already done on mine, something that I never wanted to do in the Lotus. Two great cars (I have had 2 Elises now) but the Alpine is much more complete, and much more comfortable, I'm really impressed by how good the suspension is. The Alpine may be a little more expensive than the Elise 220 but it is the better value.

Interesting insight. I was about to order an Alpine but the lead time meant I bought an Elise 220. I love it other than the access issue and have put the Alpine idea on hold. The manual box and Targa roof really make the elise- how are you finding the auto in comparison? I only need a toy car so practical considerations are low.

[Julian Thompson]

I don’t think the Alpine actually competes for Cayman money. I think it competes for Elise money, in the real world.

90% of Cayman owners wouldn’t have even heard of the Alpine and even if they had when you’ve decided you’re buying yourself a Porsche it’s not easy to have your mind changed.

Elise buyers on the whole are a more esoteric bunch, I venture...

[mal999]

Yes, that was mine in the Paddock at Brans. 4th delivered in UK.
I absolutely love it! That’s after loads of interesting cars - 3 Caymans including a gts and a 4c.
It’s a sports car for the real world - pot holes, B roads and a blast to the Med (pending). Done 700 miles, so many smiles and over 40 mpg.
And Gordon Murray has one.....no more reviews needed?

[PeterGadsby]

mal999 said:

Yes, that was mine in the Paddock at Brans. 4th delivered in UK.
I absolutely love it! That’s after loads of interesting cars - 3 Caymans including a gts and a 4c.
It’s a sports car for the real world - pot holes, B roads and a blast to the Med (pending). Done 700 miles, so many smiles and over 40 mpg.
And Gordon Murray has one.....no more reviews needed?

Thanks for taking it to Brands, it looked fantastic... Very jealous :-)

- Pete

[the_hood]

Julian Thompson said:

I don’t think the Alpine actually competes for Cayman money. I think it competes for Elise money, in the real world.

...

This.

[anonymous-user]

Fittster said:

Since when do the best cars have the highest sales figures?

Exactly. Not everyone wants yet another anodyne Porsche in their garage.

[Helicopter123]

yonex said:

Fittster said:

Since when do the best cars have the highest sales figures?

Exactly. Not everyone wants yet another anodyne Porsche in their garage.

Have you driven a Cayman?

Even a poverty spec non-S is a very very good car.

They sell loads for good reason.

[anonymous-user]

Helicopter123 said:

Have you driven a Cayman?

Even a poverty spec non-S is a very very good car.

They sell loads for good reason.

I have driven a few Boxsters, not a Cayman.

Yes they’re very ‘good’, very ‘efficient’, etc. It’s just that they lack something, the character of the flat 6 is now gone and it seems to me, like most new ‘sports cars’ they are just getting technically faster all the time without the focus on the actual mechanics of it? The Renault for me would be massively more interesting. It’s the same as prefering something which is more difficult to extract performance from over the ‘better’ car.

[Green1man]

In many ways I doubt these comparisons would even be considered if the Porsche were still a 6 pot as no matter how good the Alpine it wouldn’t have that flat 6 howl and NA delivery. But with the F4 it opens the door to these.

I like the Alpine front and side but not rear, might I consider buying one? yes I might. Would it tempt me out of my 981? I doubt it, but if I were considering a 718 it’s certainly something I’d have a look at (still not seen one in the flesh though).

[Helicopter123]

yonex said:

Helicopter123 said:

Have you driven a Cayman?

Even a poverty spec non-S is a very very good car.

They sell loads for good reason.

I have driven a few Boxsters, not a Cayman.

Yes they’re very ‘good’, very ‘efficient’, etc. It’s just that they lack something, the character of the flat 6 is now gone and it seems to me, like most new ‘sports cars’ they are just getting technically faster all the time without the focus on the actual mechanics of it? The Renault for me would be massively more interesting. It’s the same as prefering something which is more difficult to extract performance from over the ‘better’ car.

You make a fair point, but to dismiss all modern Porsche as anodyne is clearly wrong.

[DaveGB]

the_hood said:

Julian Thompson said:

I don’t think the Alpine actually competes for Cayman money. I think it competes for Elise money, in the real world.

...

This.

Why doesn’t it ? I considered a Cayman and chose the Alpine as a better car. I’ve had 3 911’s including a GT3, so the argument that Porsche owner would never consider one is bizarre (not that you said that directly) . I’ve seen on the Alpine forums 2 new owners have dropped 911’s for the car. There will be certain people who just want the Porsche badge rather than the driving experience, which is a shame.

Don’t get me wrong the 718 is a great car, but the price soon shoots up when you add options. The seats for example I found to be very poor in basic spec, so there’s a couple of grand for starters. You only need to wander around a Porsche showroom and look at their cars on display to often find £15k, £20k+ of options added to a base car. Madness.

Apart from value , I think the Alpine ri has more enjoyment to the driving experience than out and out speed, Refreshing to experience tbh.

As a whole package I can’t think of any other car around £50k that beats the Alpine. Probably why it’s raved about by the car magazines and has a 12-18 month waiting list.

As with any car, go test drive one and then come back with your views. Have the same discussion with people around Lotus’s .

Edited by DaveGB on Saturday 1st September 20:08

[E65Ross]

DaveGB said:

the_hood said:

Julian Thompson said:

I don’t think the Alpine actually competes for Cayman money. I think it competes for Elise money, in the real world.

...

This.

Why doesn’t it ? I considered a Cayman and chose the Alpine as a better car. I’ve had 3 911’s including a GT3, so the argument that a Porsche owner would never consider one is bizarre. There will be certain people who just want the Porsche badge rather than the driving experience, which is a shame.

Don’t get me wrong the 718 is a great car, but the price soon shoots up when you add options. The seats for example I found to be very poor in basic spec, so there’s a couple of grand for starters. You in,y need to wander around a Porsche showroom and look at their cars in display to often find £15k, £20k+ of options added to a base car. Madness.

As a whole package I can’t think of any other car around £50k that beats the Alpine. Probably why it’s raved about by the car magazines and has a 12-18 month waiting list.

As with any car, go test drive one and then come back with your views. Have the same discussion with people around Lotus’s .

He's cut off the most important part of the quote, which answers your question. It begins with 90%..... and I suspect he's probably right. If not 90% is probably too low a number.

[anonymous-user]

Helicopter123 said:

You make a fair point, but to dismiss all modern Porsche as anodyne is clearly wrong.

I guess it could be seen as harsh. Question though. What is the real cost of a Cayman with the options it needs OTR?

[CABC]

Helicopter123 said:

yonex said:

Helicopter123 said:

Have you driven a Cayman?

Even a poverty spec non-S is a very very good car.

They sell loads for good reason.

I have driven a few Boxsters, not a Cayman.

Yes they’re very ‘good’, very ‘efficient’, etc. It’s just that they lack something, the character of the flat 6 is now gone and it seems to me, like most new ‘sports cars’ they are just getting technically faster all the time without the focus on the actual mechanics of it? The Renault for me would be massively more interesting. It’s the same as prefering something which is more difficult to extract performance from over the ‘better’ car.

You make a fair point, but to dismiss all modern Porsche as anodyne is clearly wrong.

but they are far from the last word in driving thrills, and that's a shame because the engineers could produce a true competitor to Lotus or Alpine. Porsche have left the (more pure) sports car market behind, which is a shame as at one time they were at the vanguard. they do of course sells loads, something which sadly is in itself a badge of honour to some on PH.

(btw, Porsche was my preferred car as a youngster. the true sporting nature and that flat 6 was far more inspirational than any Ferrari to me. I'm now a Lotus fan, but i only 'switched' later when i had money and the choices that were presented to me. Alpine is on my watch list).

[anonymous-user]

CABC said:

but they are far from the last word in driving thrills, and that's a shame because the engineers could produce a true competitor to Lotus or Alpine. Porsche have left the (more pure) sports car market behind, which is a shame as at one time they were at the vanguard. they do of course sells loads, something which sadly is in itself a badge of honour to some on PH.

(btw, Porsche was my preferred car as a youngster. the true sporting nature and that flat 6 was far more inspirational than any Ferrari to me. I'm now a Lotus fan, but i only 'switched' later when i had money and the choices that were presented to me. Alpine is on my watch list).

Just to add. Something like a 964 with some head work. cams and throttle bodies would be in my dream garage. It’s not just Porsche, society has diluted sports cars, like everything else.

[Kolbenkopp]

CABC said:

Porsche have left the (more pure) sports car market behind, which is a shame as at one time they were at the vanguard. They do of course sells loads, something which sadly is in itself a badge of honour to some on PH.

And even with their less hard-core approach and the badge, the Caysters are niche producuts. How many do they sell / year globally? 10 to 15.000? Real (tm ) sports cars are not in high demand currently. We're lucky Renault / Alpine seem to have a few petrol heads in charge, because it's not going to make them a lot of money. More of a brand building exercise with hope of future returns IMO.

[Robert-nszl1]

CABC said:

Helicopter123 said:

yonex said:

Helicopter123 said:

Have you driven a Cayman?

Even a poverty spec non-S is a very very good car.

They sell loads for good reason.

I have driven a few Boxsters, not a Cayman.

Yes they’re very ‘good’, very ‘efficient’, etc. It’s just that they lack something, the character of the flat 6 is now gone and it seems to me, like most new ‘sports cars’ they are just getting technically faster all the time without the focus on the actual mechanics of it? The Renault for me would be massively more interesting. It’s the same as prefering something which is more difficult to extract performance from over the ‘better’ car.

You make a fair point, but to dismiss all modern Porsche as anodyne is clearly wrong.

but they are far from the last word in driving thrills, and that's a shame because the engineers could produce a true competitor to Lotus or Alpine. Porsche have left the (more pure) sports car market behind, which is a shame as at one time they were at the vanguard. they do of course sells loads, something which sadly is in itself a badge of honour to some on PH.

(btw, Porsche was my preferred car as a youngster. the true sporting nature and that flat 6 was far more inspirational than any Ferrari to me. I'm now a Lotus fan, but i only 'switched' later when i had money and the choices that were presented to me. Alpine is on my watch list).

I agree with this. Porsche do make good cars, but they don't make sports cars in the way they did. When the Boxster was launched, the 550 Spyder was its inspiration. One can argue how successful an homage that really was, but over the years it, and the Cayman have grown bigger and heavier. Many will say the extra power has compensated, but as with the 911, this has meant a gradual dulling of the driving experience. Porsche used to be at the forefront of lightweight design, the fact that Renault/ Alpine are now showing them the way can only be good news. I hope they respond accordingly. In the meantime I'm drawn to the Alpine, and I've owned many 911s over the years, currently a gen 2 997.