RE: Mid-engined Corvette spied testing
Discussion
RDMcG said:
I understand that - my point is that the current environment if anything appears to be moving backwards, and further , there is very little evidence of the London-type congestion charges for instance. I do think that the new car will be safe domestically for its design life. Yes, there is certainly work one alternative power and I see the Tesla superchargers stations in many places;
I no longer think that the US will lead in emission standards. Many of the engines dropped in from production in the least few years are because of Euro and not US standards. For in stance, the current top end Camaro is being dropped from importation for this reason as I recall.
No big deal, just an opinion.
yes, at the federal level, the US seems to be putting progress on emissions controls and fuel economy on hold nowadays while Europe moves aheadI no longer think that the US will lead in emission standards. Many of the engines dropped in from production in the least few years are because of Euro and not US standards. For in stance, the current top end Camaro is being dropped from importation for this reason as I recall.
No big deal, just an opinion.
meanwhile...
California is giving the middle finger, if you will,
to the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania avenue... as California is now collaborating, alone, with the national government of Canada to agree a unified plan on emissions and on fuel economy:https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/27/california-...
it's remarkable, really, that an individual state is engaged this deeply, and rather alone, in a sort of foreign policy agreement, but I also find this inspiring
rockin said:
I think that's going to be the fundamental question - price in UK. If they get fancy with the pricing it'll be trying to sell against a carbon, twin-turbo McLaren.
I don't think the UK is really a target market, any more than it was for the old one. They're not going to sell more than a handful in the UK unless they make it available in RHD however cheap/good it is. kambites said:
rockin said:
I think that's going to be the fundamental question - price in UK. If they get fancy with the pricing it'll be trying to sell against a carbon, twin-turbo McLaren.
I don't think the UK is really a target market, any more than it was for the old one. They're not going to sell more than a handful in the UK unless they make it available in RHD however cheap/good it is. The C8 Corvette will be factory-produced in RHD just as Ford does with the Mustang (and not a cut-and-kitbash effort by an in-market specialist as with the RHD Camaro that is sold only in Australia).
That said, I believe that C8 sales in the UK will be infinitesimally small and of almost no consequence outside the pages of PH and so on.
The discussion above is a complete mix-up of direct harmful emission and co2. The us has very stringent legislation for directly harmful emission like NOx, hydrocarbons etc and have had for a very long time. Future legislation might be very extreme aswell, depending on what they decide on. Co2 and fuel emission is where its the opposite.
rockin said:
I think that's going to be the fundamental question - price in UK. If they get fancy with the pricing it'll be trying to sell against a carbon, twin-turbo McLaren.
Roll on 18th July!
Surprised that they didn't unveil on 4th of July - would appear to be quite an American thing to do?Roll on 18th July!
irocfan said:
rockin said:
I think that's going to be the fundamental question - price in UK. If they get fancy with the pricing it'll be trying to sell against a carbon, twin-turbo McLaren.
Roll on 18th July!
Surprised that they didn't unveil on 4th of July - would appear to be quite an American thing to do?Roll on 18th July!
2. and, such an outright takeover of the nation's founding day would be perceived by many as crass
I'm aware that this may be difficult to believe -- after all, the nation has built quite a reputation for itself in the crass / kitsch / unrestrained department -- but there we are.
CedricN said:
The us has very stringent legislation for directly harmful emission like NOx, hydrocarbons etc and have had for a very long time. Future legislation might be very extreme aswell, depending on what they decide on.
CedricN said:
Co2 and fuel emission is where its the opposite.
thanks for making those important distinctionsunsprung said:
It will be produced in RHD, as this has been promised to Australia -- where, as we all know, the on-road use of LHD imports is prohibited
Ah I'd managed to miss that. I suppose it shouldn't be surprising since it's typically so much easier to convert a mid/rear engined car between right and left hand drive as there's no engine to route the steering column around. It will be interesting to see if they sell it in the UK then, and if so how much it costs. kambites said:
Ah I'd managed to miss that. I suppose it shouldn't be surprising since it's typically so much easier to convert a mid/rear engined car between right and left hand drive as there's no engine to route the steering column around. It will be interesting to see if they sell it in the UK then, and if so how much it costs.
the RHD unit will be sold in all leading / large markets that are RHD; this includes the UKapologies if I had not made that clear
there is no plan to produce a RHD unit in the factory... solely for Australia... whilst simultaneously forcing other RHD markets to make do with a LHD unit
kambites said:
Makes sense assuming the thing has been designed with European type approval in mind (which one would hope).
this has all been mooted; the entire point of evolving Corvette to a mid-engined format and to offering both LHD and RHD from the OEM factory is that General Motors wants Corvette to be a world car at or near the pinnacle of the supercar segmentyour statements seem to want to take facts off the table; I'm not a fan of making things obscure here on PH
as with Mustang, it is not essential to sell, per capita, as many C8 units in Europe, Asia, and Latin America as in the US; what is important, however, is for the marque to be seen to trade "globally"
related to "globally" are goals such as:
a) opening the Corvette narrative to enthusiasts outside the US who, because they are in other countries, are able to add depth and texture to the Corvette narrative
b) earning some kudos from the (often harsh / critical) European motoring press
the whole thing will resemble the global initiative behind Mustang, but with one important distinction: the C8 Corvette will be much further upmarket
unsprung said:
your statements seem to want to take facts off the table; I'm not a fan of making things obscure here on PH
Not remotely. My statements were fishing for facts which I do (or did) not have. Any idea what it's going to cost in the UK? Presumably the entry point will be in six figures, but hopefully not by a big margin? Or will they try to undercut the 911 with the entry level car? Edited by kambites on Monday 1st July 20:46
kambites said:
Any idea what it's going to cost in the UK? Presumably the entry point will be in six figures, but hopefully not by a big margin? Or will they try to undercut the 911 with the entry level car?
I've seen no pricing for any countryand the engine and other essential bits remain under wraps
unsprung said:
CedricN said:
The us has very stringent legislation for directly harmful emission like NOx, hydrocarbons etc and have had for a very long time. Future legislation might be very extreme aswell, depending on what they decide on.
CedricN said:
Co2 and fuel emission is where its the opposite.
thanks for making those important distinctionshttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xf25OwYuE3o
Edited by MDL111 on Monday 1st July 21:27
MDL111 said:
Never really bothered to understand US emissions laws, having said that...
"I don't know how to swim, but I would like to inform all of you that I've just thrown myself into the ocean."Is that the sort of thing that you had wanted to say?
welp, today is your Adam Peaty lucky day, because the European Union has helpfully compiled the following:
.
- "Our analysis of the respective emissions standards identifies that (broadly) US federal standards are more ambitious for key local air quality pollutants, particularly NOx, than EU standards."
- "In addition, California, and a number of other states which chose to adopt California’s rules, apply emissions standards which are more ambitious than federal standards."
- "The current type approval system in the EU has a number of weaknesses in comparison with the US system"
- "There are also significant contrasts in the stringency of in-service performance verification. While the US EPA has a systematic approach to the testing of vehicles at different stages of their life, surveillance in the EU is dependent on the individual Member State, with only very limited efforts to introduce systematic surveillance systems observed."
- "In the EU, manufacturers are not obliged to seek prior approval for their reliance on exemptions for defeat devices, or even to identify any such devices when applying for type approval. In the US, manufacturers are required to provide full details of any auxiliary emissions control devices to the EPA.
These findings are less than three years old. And, as you will find at the link below, they go on and on and on.
Full report (PDF):
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You make a good point, and I must amend my statement. Joe Bloggs in Arkansas is not going to say, "Hey, Jim-Bob, did ya see them Frogs buyin' up that C8? For sure I gotta get me one, now!"
General Motors wants a global halo car of sorts. And they intend to a) increase total earnings of the Corvette portfolio and b) leverage Corvette halo status to drive forecourt traffic, where this makes sense, in any relevant country. Motorsport, already something in which Corvette is involved, may become even more important.
Good to see Corvette embrace the rest of the world, it can only enhance the brand as it seen as very US centric and built to a price compared to the European competition (whether the agricultural references are correct, the interiors have always been hideous). But the bugbear of mine is how usable this car will be in the UK or indeed most of Europe. OK, not the target market but it looks very very wide. I love touring, and am currently sitting beside lake Garda on a 3k mile trip around Europe. Lack of luggage space I can cope with, but excessive width would without question have me wincing too much to enjoy it
unsprung said:
General Motors wants a global halo car of sorts. And they intend to a) increase total earnings of the Corvette portfolio and b) leverage Corvette halo status to drive forecourt traffic, where this makes sense, in any relevant country. Motorsport, already something in which Corvette is involved, may become even more important.
So do you think we'll see General Motors attacking other global markets with a slew of mainstream cars as well to take advantage of the halo? As far as I know, GM don't actually sell any cars in the UK since they sold Opel to Peugeot, do they sell anything in mainland Europe? unsprung said:
It will be produced in RHD, as this has been promised to Australia -- where, as we all know, the on-road use of LHD imports is prohibited.
A wildly inaccurate blanket statement. In reality it varies from state to state as follows:Queensland: Any light vehicle over 30 years old able to be registered LHD provided it meets a roadworthy inspection.
New South Wales: Vehicles over 30 years old can be registered either as an unmodified historic vehicle, or for general use once they’ve been inspected by an authorised inspection station.
Victoria: 30-year old cut-off for modified LHD vehicles to be registered, but also allows vehicles over 25 years old to be registered under historic registration providing they are near-standard.
Tasmania: Registration of LHD cars is determined on a case-by-case basis. In addition, it also has a Special Interest Vehicle option which allows for LHD vehicles aged 30 years or older, or LHD competition vehicles of any age, to be used on public roads for up to 52 days per year.
South Australia: LHD vehicles must be in 100% original condition and manufactured before 1 January 1979.
Western Australia: LHD vehicles have to be 15 years old before they can be registered.
Northern Territory: If you personally import your vehicle, it can be registered LHD with no age restrictions.
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