RE: Mid-engined Corvette spied testing

[MikeT66]

rockin said:

British Beef said:

Why does Chevrolet need to make the iconic Corvette mid engine?

To compete on a level playing field with Ford GT...

I heard this also... which is odd as I understand the GT project is ending in 2019 and Ford will probably move into Prototype racing (LMP2 or DPI).

[kambites]

Is it really going to be priced against the GT? I assumed it was going to be more Audi R8 sort of money, at least at the entry point.

[cookie1600]

MikeGalos said:

Why did Lotus move to mid engined?
Why did Lamborghini move to mid engined?
Why did Ferrari move to mid engined?
Why did Porsche move to mid engined (where they could)?
Why has McLaren always been mid engined?

Because this isn't 1960 anymore.

But now GM will have to play catch up with these established mid-engines players and be bench-marked against them. How do we feel that will go for 'The General'?

[RumbleOfThunder]

It will be brilliant. Just don't call it a Corvette is all.

[MikeT66]

kambites said:

Is it really going to be priced against the GT? I assumed it was going to be more Audi R8 sort of money, at least at the entry point.

No - it was to compete on the track, not the road. Not that the Corvettes have done badly over the last few years in GT racing... although in all honesty, remove BoP and I think the Ford GT would have left them standing.

The new Corvette will still have to compete with the mid-engined 911 on the track, though.

[996TT02]

RumbleOfThunder said:

It will be brilliant. Just don't call it a Corvette is all.

This!

[irocfan]

gotta love PH - we went from discussing the new Corvette to sucking dicks in Audi's within a few posts!

996TT02 said:

I will probably like "the new car" very much, but imho a "Corvette" should be a front engined slightly hooligan-ish car all too willing to safely let the back end step out of line at 10mph. Let this be something else, possibly a "better" car than the present Corvette, but not replacing it.

I'm of the same opinion (and hopes!) as 996 TBH. I would add that from what you can see through the camo it looks inoffensive/bland - yet another cookie-cutter supercar yawn

[kambites]

So do we have a proper answer on whether this is replacing the FR Corvette or sitting above it in the range? It'd be a shame if the old front-engined layout is dropped completely because it generally makes for a much more usable car.

[flyinglotus]

before any one slates the idea of this too much, there is now the fairly straight forward option of introducing RHD in this new mid engine car.

edit: this has already been confirmed that RHD will be shipping to Australia

Edited by flyinglotus on Tuesday 4th September 08:55

[Sam993]

Looks a bit like the OG Honda NSX. I think it might be a cracker. And yes, don't call it a Corvette please. Maybe Corvarri or Lambette, Corsche?

[TerryBarr]

cookie1600 said:

But now GM will have to play catch up with these established mid-engines players and be bench-marked against them. How do we feel that will go for 'The General'?

Don't forget that GM's unofficial racing dept was doing fancy aerodynamics before Chapman and ran a car with an auto box at Le Mans in the 60s (although the auto DID break a couple of times).

[MikeGalos]

cookie1600 said:

MikeGalos said:

Why did Lotus move to mid engined?
Why did Lamborghini move to mid engined?
Why did Ferrari move to mid engined?
Why did Porsche move to mid engined (where they could)?
Why has McLaren always been mid engined?

Because this isn't 1960 anymore.

But now GM will have to play catch up with these established mid-engines players and be bench-marked against them. How do we feel that will go for 'The General'?

And every year they wait is another year behind. I suspect they'll do just fine. It's not like this is a new concept where nobody understands the dynamics of making mid-engined sports cars after 50 years. In fact, there isn't a single automotive engineer working these days who hasn't had mid-engined cars to study for his or her entire career. For that matter, GM had a 2 seat mid-engined car in mass production from 1983-1988 so they even know how to mass produce them.

I suspect the problem really is that people think Chevrolet doesn't "know their place" and is daring to compete in a hallowed market that's supposed to be reserved for small, European makers.

[unsprung]

an assortment of things about the mid-engined Corvette which are generally accepted as fact (and I send a matey thumbs up to those here who've made similar comments):


A. It will be factory-built in both LHD and RHD -- and sold globally

General Motors executives were quoted in Australian media last year as promising a factory-built RHD vehicle. This was a sort of mea culpa for poorly managing the sunset of domestic production in Oz. There would be, however, a caveat. It was implied that this vehicle would be priced above Mustang and Camaro money.

In a further development of epic jobsworth proportions, Australian trademark authorities denied Chevrolet -- and therefore an OEM Corvette -- the right to use the 100+ year old Chevrolet logo in Australia because, claimed Australian authorities, the Chevrolet logo is an illegal encroachment on the rights of the International Red Cross.

Story here:
https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/exclusive-corvett...

And here:
http://dcc.com/services/trade-marks/strict-trade-m...


B. It will honour the man who long campaigned for a mid-engined Corvette

Zora Arkus-Duntov didn't achieve, during his career at General Motors, one of the engineering transformations he so ardently sought. Now, however, the company not only embraces his logic, but is likely both to confer honours and to burnish the Corvette brand with the values of his colourful life story.

Article here:
http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2018/08/20/gm-trade...

Arkus-Duntov bio here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov


C. Affordability remains essential to the DNA of Corvette

Most believe that the mid-engined car will be priced, in its domestic market, at less than $150,000 -- something not too different from, say, the Audi R8 and Acura (ahem) NSX. Performance is expected to be keenly competitive and to deliver significant value for money relative to the most exotic European offerings.

The mid-engined car will not replace the front-engined car. It will at this time serve as a global halo for the Corvette franchise. The front-engined car will continue to deliver incredible value for money, especially in its domestic market, but also via the current special-order export programme run by General Motors.

How long will this dual-product arrangement last? Nobody knows. I believe that it will continue for at least one more iteration of the front-engined car: that is, knocking on the door of 2030.

[MikeGalos]

TerryBarr said:

cookie1600 said:

But now GM will have to play catch up with these established mid-engines players and be bench-marked against them. How do we feel that will go for 'The General'?

Don't forget that GM's unofficial racing dept was doing fancy aerodynamics before Chapman and ran a car with an auto box at Le Mans in the 60s (although the auto DID break a couple of times).

Well, calling Jim Hall's Chaparral "GM's unofficial racing dept" is a bit like saying Chapman's Lotus was "Ford's unofficial racing dept".

Both Chaparral and Lotus got their share of "unofficial" factory support but it's not like Hall and Chapman don't deserve the lion's share of the credit in both cases.

[anonymous-user]

The question of what it will eventually be called is a good one. I'm not aware of any indications from GM as yet.

Corvettes are the only vehicle built at a dedicated factory in Bowling Green. From 2003 to 2009 GM built the Cadillac XLR alongside Corvette at the plant. Underneath its skin Cadillac's XLR was a very similar car to the Corvette, albeit with a higher bonnet line to accommodate its OHC Northstar engines. It wasn't a big seller at around 3,000 cars a year compared with about 30,000 Corvettes.

Of possible names for the new mid-engine car,

• I doubt Cadillac would be used, its brand emphasis being "luxury" rather than "performance".
• Pontiac used to be a GM performance brand until it was terminated in 2009. The mid-engine Pontiac Fiero was an interesting development in the 1980s but otherwise many of the cars were badge engineered - including Firebird - running alongside Chevrolet's Camaro. The mid engine link to Pontiac could be made at a stretch but seems unlikely.
• Corvette has been the halo performance car since 1953 so this name must be favourite. One possibility might be to have a front engine base car and a mid-engine ZR1.

[MikeGalos]

unsprung said:

B. It will honour the man who long campaigned for a mid-engined Corvette

…

C. Affordability remains essential to the DNA of Corvette

Thanks, first off, for the informative post.

An affordable, mid-engined Chevrolet Corvette Zora would certainly shake up the supercar industry and Zora Arkus-Duntov getting the recognition he deserves with a car he pushed to produce for years is wonderful.

Edited by MikeGalos on Tuesday 4th September 15:07

[telecat]

Sigh.... Hopefully they'll be forced to put in a Stick shift not the DCT Autocar reckon it will come with.

[MikeGalos]

rockin said:

British Beef said:

Why does Chevrolet need to make the iconic Corvette mid engine?

To compete on a level playing field with Ford GT...

Not likely. GM actually plans to produce and sell this car.

Their likely competitors are:

• V8 Ferraris (whatever they choose to name them next year - to me if they don't have a 12 cylinder they're a Dino)
• Lamborghini Huracan
• McLaren 570
• Acura/Honda NSX

And they'll likely not only compete with them on specs but sell at 2/3rds the price and dozens to hundreds of times the volume.

Edited by MikeGalos on Tuesday 4th September 15:20

[anonymous-user]

telecat said:

Sigh.... Hopefully they'll be forced to put in a Stick shift not the DCT Autocar reckon it will come with.

I'd say that's pretty unlikely.

[irocfan]

unsprung said:

In a further development of epic jobsworth proportions, Australian trademark authorities denied Chevrolet -- and therefore an OEM Corvette -- the right to use the 100+ year old Chevrolet logo in Australia because, claimed Australian authorities, the Chevrolet logo is an illegal encroachment on the rights of the International Red Cross.

Story here:
https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/exclusive-corvett...

And here:
http://dcc.com/services/trade-marks/strict-trade-m...

because of course people will mistake the two...