RE: Prior Convictions: Grace, Space and Patience
Discussion
this car is more than simply doing up a classic with EV gubbins
it's about the Jaguar brand creating something that earns bags of free publicity round the globe
and it's an ideal way for Jaguar to combine its past and future; the development and marketing of this car is the behaviour of a leader; it speaks to engineering prowess and to many things that are emotional
whether this particular EV conversion finds sufficient buyers, or any buyers, is not really a top concern of the people at Jaguar; when we approach this car from a sales or product point of view, we miss the point
unsprung said:
we miss the point
No, we all see the point - JLR finding yet another way to plunder their back-catalogue purely for the sake of marketing and column-inches.I don't see any other brand, 'premium' (sic) or otherwise, who are so desperate for publicity that they'll prostitute their own (laudable but now rather ancient) history for the sake of a few more units sold.
...mainly because the other brands are all busy looking forwards and have rather more corporate confidence than JLR. Even with some (very good) new design language, JLR can't seem to help themselves...
havoc said:
unsprung said:
we miss the point
No, we all see the point - JLR finding yet another way to plunder their back-catalogue purely for the sake of marketing and column-inches.I don't see any other brand, 'premium' (sic) or otherwise, who are so desperate for publicity that they'll prostitute their own (laudable but now rather ancient) history for the sake of a few more units sold.
...mainly because the other brands are all busy looking forwards and have rather more corporate confidence than JLR. Even with some (very good) new design language, JLR can't seem to help themselves...
few OEMs have anything in their "back-catalogue" worthy of such a creative exercise
is there anything more sensuous, more evocative than the Series 1 E-Type?
other OEMs are so keen on such concepts that they are enticed by a fictitious past
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-peb...
and I believe you're wrong about "corporate confidence"
the I-Pace is Jaguar's stunning and relatively early bid for dominance in all-electric SUVs
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/jaguar-i-pace-revi...
across the board, in my opinion, your arguments lack nuance, context, key facts
Why shouldn't Jaguar plunder their back catalog, they are a car manufacturer trying to survive in a tough market, every other car company cottoned onto it years ago, at least it is now just sticking some batteries in an E Type and not visiting horrors like the S and X type on the public.
EV's are the way its going, doesnt take a genius to see that, it will take time but coming up with comedy pictures of open cast mines that arent actually producing lithium as one internet meme proposes doesnt make it so, and really, going on about the pollution of EV's when talking about old Jags, now there is laugh.
I can appreciate an E Type but I think they are a bit overrated, I used to drive one pretty often, a V12 and it was a bit of a hound to be fair, it cooked your legs and generally broke down a lot, the brakes were, er, interesting, it wasnt all that fast and had comedy power steering that makes modern Epas feel fantastic.
Also, I do like the looks from some angles but its too long for its width and the wheels placement tends to make it look like a Commer van.
That said, a nice six cylinder one is a fine thing, especially if not over restored like so many are and not in lame colour.
EV's are the way its going, doesnt take a genius to see that, it will take time but coming up with comedy pictures of open cast mines that arent actually producing lithium as one internet meme proposes doesnt make it so, and really, going on about the pollution of EV's when talking about old Jags, now there is laugh.
I can appreciate an E Type but I think they are a bit overrated, I used to drive one pretty often, a V12 and it was a bit of a hound to be fair, it cooked your legs and generally broke down a lot, the brakes were, er, interesting, it wasnt all that fast and had comedy power steering that makes modern Epas feel fantastic.
Also, I do like the looks from some angles but its too long for its width and the wheels placement tends to make it look like a Commer van.
That said, a nice six cylinder one is a fine thing, especially if not over restored like so many are and not in lame colour.
unsprung said:
on the contrary
few OEMs have anything in their "back-catalogue" worthy of such a creative exercise
is there anything more sensuous, more evocative than the Series 1 E-Type?
other OEMs are so keen on such concepts that they are enticed by a fictitious past
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-peb...
and I believe you're wrong about "corporate confidence"
the I-Pace is Jaguar's stunning and relatively early bid for dominance in all-electric SUVs
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/jaguar-i-pace-revi...
across the board, in my opinion, your arguments lack nuance, context, key facts
1) Plenty. I'm in the "E-Type is overrated" camp - it's a very pretty car, sure, and I've a lot of time for it, but it's not THE prettiest out there. Even if it was, that's irrelevant to my argument. It's not unique and it doesn't give JLR carte-blanche to keep drawing against its reputation, which to me is to tarnish a valuable history in the name of "marketing" :spit: few OEMs have anything in their "back-catalogue" worthy of such a creative exercise
is there anything more sensuous, more evocative than the Series 1 E-Type?
other OEMs are so keen on such concepts that they are enticed by a fictitious past
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-peb...
and I believe you're wrong about "corporate confidence"
the I-Pace is Jaguar's stunning and relatively early bid for dominance in all-electric SUVs
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/jaguar-i-pace-revi...
across the board, in my opinion, your arguments lack nuance, context, key facts
2) A lot of mfrs create tribute concept cars, but they're almost always intended as a mixed homage and signal of future design language, and they're ONLY concept cars. None are produced (2005 Ford GT excepted - another brand that, from a sporting perspective, likes living in the past). This is the opposite - this is taking the historic halo model and effectively plagiarising it to create column-inches.
3) You miss my point entirely - their new design language is largely successful, yet they still spend a LOT of time and money playing-up past glories. That to me is the definition of insecurity about the current product - believing it needs sprinkling with E-Type dust to help it sell*.
- Do you see Merc rolling out the Gullwing to promote their latest top-end coupe?
- Do you see BMW rolling out the M1, or the original CSL?
- Do you see Aston rolling out the DB5 at every opportunity?
- ...and what about Ferrari with their endless back-catalogue? Nope, they're too busy 'merchandising'!
- ...and then there's Lamborghini who equally ignore the gorgeous Miura
- ...and Lotus, who ignore the effortlessly pretty Elan (amongst others)
(I'll stop now...think I've given enough examples...)
Your whole post marks you out as a marque-fan, which is fine. But please don't shout down valid criticism of their approach (I used to work for JLR, BTW...).
* What it actually needs I believe, as an ex-industry man and someone who lives in the UK's automotive heartland, is more thorough engineering and better long-term quality under the skin. Look at their long-term quality scores from the USA (who are less forgiving of image and 'thunk' than the Europeans).
havoc said:
(I'll stop now...think I've given enough examples...)
unfortunately, and whilst appreciating the first-hand industry knowledge that you contribute, I don't see anything here that defeats or requires a change to my argumenthavoc said:
Look at their long-term quality scores from the USA (who are less forgiving of image and 'thunk' than the Europeans).
on this one measure, ironically, I may be more qualified than most hereGassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff