RE: BMW exposes X3 and X4 M to the world

[Kolbenkopp]

E65Ross said:

MrGTI6 said:

Genuine question: What is the point of the X4? Isn't it just an X3 but worse (and more expensive)?

The same reason why the M4 exists over the M3.

Agree, but there's a difference. The reason might be the same, but the impact is different.

For people driving more rational cars, fast SUVs a pain in the arse, same as fast white vans are. Can't see around the bloody things, slow in corners, fast on straights. And an unecessaraly high amount of kinetic energy in the hands of mainly unqualified people.

[nickfrog]

Kolbenkopp said:

Agree, but there's a difference. The reason might be the same, but the impact is different.

For people driving more rational cars, fast SUVs a pain in the arse, same as fast white vans are. Can't see around the bloody things, slow in corners, fast on straights. And an unecessaraly high amount of kinetic energy in the hands of mainly unqualified people.

I don't see how their drivers would be any more or less qualified than your average road driver. As for slow in corners, I don't think they are in the context of mere road use, they are quite clearly capable of pulling enough Gs despite the higher CoG.

You do have a point about slightly reduced visibility for other road users but I never found this to be an insurmountable hurdle.

[Equilibrium25]

What a stunningly poor piece of journalism by PH.

Shock, the world has moved on from the the days of 3-box saloons.

As a potential SUV buyer - I need practicality and the wife hates estates, plus I happen to like the ones I have driven - I can perfectly see the appeal of having effortless power and great handling in a practical shape. Yes, a M3 will outhandle a X3M, but it will also be vastly more compromised in other areas. Pick the car that suits your lifestyle.

The X3M is no good to me, the boot is way too small, but good luck to those lucky enough to choose one over a X3 20d.

[Equilibrium25]

nickfrog said:

I don't see how their drivers would be any more or less qualified than your average road driver. As for slow in corners, I don't think they are in the context of mere road use, they are quite clearly capable of pulling enough Gs despite the higher CoG.

You do have a point about slightly reduced visibility for other road users but I never found this to be an insurmountable hurdle.

I agree. I've driven a Cayenne S and that cornered a lot better than my 440i (actually so did a RRS). All the cars I have mentioned have limits way above what is safe to use day-to-day, so if they are holding anyone up it's either the driver of the SUV pottering, or the driver of the following car being a nutter.

Agree on visibility, but it's been the best part of 30 years since you could look through almost every car in front of you (huge glass area, no interior blocks except people's heads!).

[9k rpm]

Equilibrium25 said:

nickfrog said:

I don't see how their drivers would be any more or less qualified than your average road driver. As for slow in corners, I don't think they are in the context of mere road use, they are quite clearly capable of pulling enough Gs despite the higher CoG.

You do have a point about slightly reduced visibility for other road users but I never found this to be an insurmountable hurdle.

I agree. I've driven a Cayenne S and that cornered a lot better than my 440i (actually so did a RRS). All the cars I have mentioned have limits way above what is safe to use day-to-day, so if they are holding anyone up it's either the driver of the SUV pottering, or the driver of the following car being a nutter.

Agree on visibility, but it's been the best part of 30 years since you could look through almost every car in front of you (huge glass area, no interior blocks except people's heads!).

I agree, this X3 M would likely show most cars a clean pair of heels. If it does have 480bhp 4wd and weighs around 1880kg (the X3 M40i does) then that’s better power to weight than a C63 amg and only 80kg more than an RS4 avant so the whole bloated SUV argument isn’t really a strong one in this case. On a damp road I doubt many performance cars would see which way it went.

As for the previous comment on unqualified drivers and kinetic energy; get your head out of your arse. I’ve seen more idiots driving vans and hot hatches than SUVs and I’m sure none of them are qualified to do so......

[cerb4.5lee]

I do like the higher driving position of a SUV, but I thought my 5 series Touring drove far better(steering much better/less weight/better in the bends/braked much better) than my X5.

The X5 was also terrible off road(tried it once) because of the 315 section road tyres on 20" wheels(granted you can use different wheels/tyres if you need to use it off road).

[E65Ross]

at someone saying they're going to be held up in the corners because of these cars' high CoG!!!! It'll be the drivers of the cars holding you up, or the driver behind being a tt. Wlling to bet this would go round corners faster than, say, a B7 RS4 Avant, and nobody would complain about that I'm sure.

[triggerhappy21]

ntiz said:

I only have one question?

Why is it when Land Rover do the Range Rover Sport SVR it is lauded as a great all rounder with a fantastic engine. But when everyone else does it. They get called out as pointless and grotesque

Especially when 9/10 the Range Rover isn't actually the best to drive because it is the least suited to being converted to a "performance" version. Just odd.

Personally I quite like this sort of thing. I like SUVs for practicality plus the wife much prefers them if there is a fast version I take it because the family truck doesn't have to be slow and boring.

Couldn't agree more.

I enjoyed the recent SQ7 thread. Along similar lines to what we see here. Pointless, grotesque, unecessary etc.

Then the article about finding the 6.0 V12 TDi Q7 in the classified, everyone was in agreement how they always secretly pined for these, 'fantastically pointless', don't make them like this any more etc...

I think there is a lot of jumping on the PH bandwagon. Looks like PH staff have tagged along too.

[Rob.043]

ugly ugly ugly. I'm glad of the articles derogatory tone, especially if it shames one extra person in to a car instead of an SUV. It's the vulgar appearance of these that pushes me in to ranting. Looking out at a street of parked cars or over a car park and seeing it filled with bloated SUV's is disgusting. I hate having to look at them. All SUV's are ugly, but the Porsche, Mercedes, Audi and BMW's are extra offensive because the manufacturers are capable of such good looking cars. With every manufacturer now having a high riding version of most models each more hideous than the last, I despair.

I don't understand how others find them attractive enough to spend such huge amounts on. The status symbol of their immense mass on the road must blind them. I blame women for a large part of this, concerned only with feeling safe on the road and enjoying being high up for the majority. Soul less diesel engine driven SUV's. practical, practical, practical. Yuk. More expensive through their lives but worth it to be high up apparently. Sod the environmental wastage over the equivalent saloon in materials used.

The elevation it gives to wkers is a problem. you have to be a bit to in love with yourself to buy one in my mind. A bit too keen to show everyone else. So the bling expensive German SUV's just hit that vulgar button on me.

Irrespective of it being an 'M' product. These things are all as fast as fast cars I'm sure, their so wide with such big tires they will not be hard to drive as fast as you care to. But their just so so ugly!

[Hoofy]

E65Ross said:

at someone saying they're going to be held up in the corners because of these cars' high CoG!!!! It'll be the drivers of the cars holding you up, or the driver behind being a tt.

Yep. Not seen a pattern of car types that tend to hold people up on corners. More likely down to people not trying to give it ten-tenths on their way to work or not being familiar with a corner.

[JMF894]

I hope they sell loads of them, thus giving them the money to carry on producing real enthusiasts cars...........................

[Rumblestripe]

Estates do everything these cars do (apart from the extreme mud plugging that 99.99% of them never do anyway) and they are a hideous assault on the senses.

Hateful.

[soupdragon1]

Kolbenkopp said:

Agree, but there's a difference. The reason might be the same, but the impact is different.

For people driving more rational cars, fast SUVs a pain in the arse, same as fast white vans are. Can't see around the bloody things, slow in corners, fast on straights. And an unecessaraly high amount of kinetic energy in the hands of mainly unqualified people.

The slow in corners bit is the big misconception that people seem to hold about these type of cars, and I guess people are also assuming that when cornering, they are leaning heavily, with loads of under steer etc etc. To be fair, its not a surprise - I thought exactly the same before buying an X6. Prior to that, it was a RRS which did lean heavily, under steer was horrendous and any transitions on bendy roads were very boaty (it was the Mk1 RRS, the Mk2 made some good progress on those issues)

The X6 was quite the surprise when driving. In normal driving, the grip levels are effectively limitless, in that you will be driving like a nutcase before you even get to the point where you are challenging the cars cornering performance. Its very rare to find a piece of road where you can actually test the cars ability to the max. One such place is a motorway on slip near my home. Its a 270 degree corner, relatively sharp turn, downhill, with full visibility of the full corner and you can do it at around 50mph. With 4 wheel drive, very rigid suspension, staggered tyre set up (315 on the rear) and torque vectoring, its pretty insane how it manages to progress round that bend. A lot of 'performance' cars on a bend like this will have a little braking applied to the inside wheels - BMW have said screw that, we'll provide extra torque to the 'outside' wheels - it makes it feel like the car is on rails - almost like a toy scalextric car flying round the bend. Its a weird feeling, sitting so high, you are expecting tractor like handling, but when it grips like a pitbulls jaws, you just sit there thinking 'HOW!?'

I would thoroughly recommend trying to get a drive in this type of car, even just to experience what BMW have managed to achieve, almost breaking the laws of physics. The only downside is that with the stiff suspension, its not the most comfortable cruiser. If you've any fillings, they'll be in danger of coming loose on a poor road surface. I have to admit, in can be quite annoying at times - the seats are lovely, the cabin is nice, but it sometimes feels like you're riding a horse (badly) on poor road surfaces.

[up_shift]

the M badge isn't what it was, despite how amazing these cars might perform. Seeing an M car used to really make me excited as a kid, ever since around 2013 they just don't have the same effect, partially because of the XXM variants, M-Sport Variants etc.. They're really diluted their brand IMHO

That shouldn't detract from the merits of the thing, had an X6M for a weekend and it was anything but disappointing. Its just sad from a sentimental point of view I guess!

Edited by up_shift on Wednesday 12th September 10:27

[DoubleD]

Rumblestripe said:

Estates do everything these cars do (apart from the extreme mud plugging that 99.99% of them never do anyway) and they are a hideous assault on the senses.

Hateful.

So what is the point of estate cars then if an SUV can do more?

What is it that you hate about them, apart from the look?

[Ares]

Mr Whippy said:

I think it’s important to note that a huge success, which the X56M were, doesn’t really mean anything.

M isn’t what it used to be.
.

Actually, it's everything. And M today is the same as M always was. Powerful engine in a normal car, with added, subtle styling and more focused handling.

[simonbamg]

Rob.043 said:

ugly ugly ugly. I'm glad of the articles derogatory tone, especially if it shames one extra person in to a car instead of an SUV. It's the vulgar appearance of these that pushes me in to ranting. Looking out at a street of parked cars or over a car park and seeing it filled with bloated SUV's is disgusting. I hate having to look at them. All SUV's are ugly, but the Porsche, Mercedes, Audi and BMW's are extra offensive because the manufacturers are capable of such good looking cars. With every manufacturer now having a high riding version of most models each more hideous than the last, I despair.

I don't understand how others find them attractive enough to spend such huge amounts on. The status symbol of their immense mass on the road must blind them. I blame women for a large part of this, concerned only with feeling safe on the road and enjoying being high up for the majority. Soul less diesel engine driven SUV's. practical, practical, practical. Yuk. More expensive through their lives but worth it to be high up apparently. Sod the environmental wastage over the equivalent saloon in materials used.

The elevation it gives to wkers is a problem. you have to be a bit to in love with yourself to buy one in my mind. A bit too keen to show everyone else. So the bling expensive German SUV's just hit that vulgar button on me.

Irrespective of it being an 'M' product. These things are all as fast as fast cars I'm sure, their so wide with such big tires they will not be hard to drive as fast as you care to. But their just so so ugly!

book a test drive in one i'm sure you will be converted

[Ares]

Kolbenkopp said:

Ares said:

Funk said:

Hah, I didn't bother after the first paragraph either - utterly pointless vehicles and they'll sell by the boatload no doubt.

Even more utterly pointless post.

This car is no more utterly pointless than a 300bhp hot hatch or a 500bhp saloon.

Big difference (pun intended ) IMO -- the hatch and the saloon solve the same problem better, more elegantly. These M-on-stilts things are less good than they could be due fashion.

Sure with enough engineering thrown at the problem, they can be made OK. Same as you can make jeans with holes from new last, or salad with rucola taste good. It just takes *a lot* of unnecessary effort.

OK, if the problem is needing a car to fit a bike or two in, easily putting three under 5s in the back seat and wanting an elevated seating position for those three kids....how does the hatch and saloon solve the problem better?

If on top of the above criteria, you want something that will be quick for when you are by yourself, then these it the mark well.

[Ares]

Rob.043 said:

ugly ugly ugly. I'm glad of the articles derogatory tone, especially if it shames one extra person in to a car instead of an SUV. It's the vulgar appearance of these that pushes me in to ranting. Looking out at a street of parked cars or over a car park and seeing it filled with bloated SUV's is disgusting. I hate having to look at them. All SUV's are ugly, but the Porsche, Mercedes, Audi and BMW's are extra offensive because the manufacturers are capable of such good looking cars. With every manufacturer now having a high riding version of most models each more hideous than the last, I despair.

I don't understand how others find them attractive enough to spend such huge amounts on. The status symbol of their immense mass on the road must blind them. I blame women for a large part of this, concerned only with feeling safe on the road and enjoying being high up for the majority. Soul less diesel engine driven SUV's. practical, practical, practical. Yuk. More expensive through their lives but worth it to be high up apparently. Sod the environmental wastage over the equivalent saloon in materials used.

The elevation it gives to wkers is a problem. you have to be a bit to in love with yourself to buy one in my mind. A bit too keen to show everyone else. So the bling expensive German SUV's just hit that vulgar button on me.

Irrespective of it being an 'M' product. These things are all as fast as fast cars I'm sure, their so wide with such big tires they will not be hard to drive as fast as you care to. But their just so so ugly!

Have you considered anger management?

[Ares]

Rumblestripe said:

Estates do everything these cars do (apart from the extreme mud plugging that 99.99% of them never do anyway) and they are a hideous assault on the senses.

Hateful.

No they don't. HTH.