RE: BMW exposes X3 and X4 M to the world

[Kenny Powers]

Not my cup of tea but I’m sure they will be awesome cars.

Article reads like an opinion-piece from someone who can barely contain their disapproval

[neil1jnr]

Rob.043 said:

ugly ugly ugly. I'm glad of the articles derogatory tone, especially if it shames one extra person in to a car instead of an SUV. It's the vulgar appearance of these that pushes me in to ranting. Looking out at a street of parked cars or over a car park and seeing it filled with bloated SUV's is disgusting. I hate having to look at them. All SUV's are ugly, but the Porsche, Mercedes, Audi and BMW's are extra offensive because the manufacturers are capable of such good looking cars. With every manufacturer now having a high riding version of most models each more hideous than the last, I despair.

I don't understand how others find them attractive enough to spend such huge amounts on. The status symbol of their immense mass on the road must blind them. I blame women for a large part of this, concerned only with feeling safe on the road and enjoying being high up for the majority. Soul less diesel engine driven SUV's. practical, practical, practical. Yuk. More expensive through their lives but worth it to be high up apparently. Sod the environmental wastage over the equivalent saloon in materials used.

The elevation it gives to wkers is a problem. you have to be a bit to in love with yourself to buy one in my mind. A bit too keen to show everyone else. So the bling expensive German SUV's just hit that vulgar button on me.

Irrespective of it being an 'M' product. These things are all as fast as fast cars I'm sure, their so wide with such big tires they will not be hard to drive as fast as you care to. But their just so so ugly!

Get over yourself. Drive one and I am sure your narrow minded opinion will change. I think you secretly want one but can't bring yourself to admit it... I quite like it (X3 M). I've never owned an SUV but I can see the appeal and would definitely consider one when I have children, they just make sense in that respect. It's the same idea as an estate, but more practical, better visibility, arguably safer, arguably less better looking.

[Ranger 6]

Hoofy said:

Ranger 6 said:

Hoofy said:

...Most people will use these cars ("SUVs") for commuting, school runs, weekend shopping trips. They're just MPVs with 4WD.

BUT bks to mud plugging. We need more of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqPRwm-C_8I

I'm not most people and while it's not the Dakar I do have off-road history with X3s. But I have done the school run as well...

Where did you do that??

I'm a tart when it comes to rallying - I'll help out anywhere they need me

Those were taken in the Yorkshire forests doing a safety car role - I've also done that in Wales and Scotland, loose surface and tarmac.

I would say from a tarmac perspective an SUV is ideal - one of the rallies I've worked on had an A4 as a safety car, it only lasted one section before the sump was damaged. Also I had a police 5 series follow me out of a stage - he couldn't keep up due to the nature of the bumps and crests. Nice chap, he then went in front to give me a blue light escort through the spectator traffic into the next one!

[Hoofy]

Ranger 6 said:

Hoofy said:

Ranger 6 said:

Hoofy said:

...Most people will use these cars ("SUVs") for commuting, school runs, weekend shopping trips. They're just MPVs with 4WD.

BUT bks to mud plugging. We need more of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqPRwm-C_8I

I'm not most people and while it's not the Dakar I do have off-road history with X3s. But I have done the school run as well...

Where did you do that??

I'm a tart when it comes to rallying - I'll help out anywhere they need me

Those were taken in the Yorkshire forests doing a safety car role - I've also done that in Wales and Scotland, loose surface and tarmac.

I would say from a tarmac perspective an SUV is ideal - one of the rallies I've worked on had an A4 as a safety car, it only lasted one section before the sump was damaged. Also I had a police 5 series follow me out of a stage - he couldn't keep up due to the nature of the bumps and crests. Nice chap, he then went in front to give me a blue light escort through the spectator traffic into the next one!

Excellent.

With all the potholes round SW London, I sometimes feel like I'm doing the Paris-Dakar just to get to Tesco.

[Bladedancer]

E65Ross said:

MrGTI6 said:

Genuine question: What is the point of the X4? Isn't it just an X3 but worse (and more expensive)?

The same reason why the M4 exists over the M3.

Errr..... no. M4 has 2 doors and can be had as a convertible. M3 has 4 doors (shame there's no estate).
X3 and X4 both have 4 doors. X4 pretends to be coupe-like by having sloping roof. As if that could succeed on a car of that height.

[Bladedancer]

simonbamg said:

book a test drive in one i'm sure you will be converted

I'll bite. What will convert me?
The high ride which makes me feel I'm in a bus?
Sheer weight of the damn thing and how "lovely" it is to feel it in corners?
The realization that I'd have more fun in another car from the same manufacturer (M3/M5 perhaps?) that had the same/similar engine but weighted less and had a lower center of gravity?

[E65Ross]

Bladedancer said:

E65Ross said:

MrGTI6 said:

Genuine question: What is the point of the X4? Isn't it just an X3 but worse (and more expensive)?

The same reason why the M4 exists over the M3.

Errr..... no. M4 has 2 doors and can be had as a convertible. M3 has 4 doors (shame there's no estate).
X3 and X4 both have 4 doors. X4 pretends to be coupe-like by having sloping roof. As if that could succeed on a car of that height.

That isn't my point. One could argue the M3 is worse than the M3 because it only has 2 doors instead of 4, and it's also more expensive. People like different things. Some people may prefer the X4 to the X3, and the option is there for them to choose if they desire.

PH - choice is a bad thing

[ghost83]

I love the new x3 so glad bmw have made an x3m might give good discounts on the m40i now

Don’t like the x4 though

[DoubleD]

E65Ross said:

Bladedancer said:

E65Ross said:

MrGTI6 said:

Genuine question: What is the point of the X4? Isn't it just an X3 but worse (and more expensive)?

The same reason why the M4 exists over the M3.

Errr..... no. M4 has 2 doors and can be had as a convertible. M3 has 4 doors (shame there's no estate).
X3 and X4 both have 4 doors. X4 pretends to be coupe-like by having sloping roof. As if that could succeed on a car of that height.

That isn't my point. One could argue the M3 is worse than the M3 because it only has 2 doors instead of 4, and it's also more expensive. People like different things. Some people may prefer the X4 to the X3, and the option is there for them to choose if they desire.

PH - choice is a bad thing

Exactly. Surely we can all agree that choice is a good thing?

[E65Ross]

Bladedancer said:

simonbamg said:

book a test drive in one i'm sure you will be converted

I'll bite. What will convert me?
The high ride which makes me feel I'm in a bus?
Sheer weight of the damn thing and how "lovely" it is to feel it in corners?
The realization that I'd have more fun in another car from the same manufacturer (M3/M5 perhaps?) that had the same/similar engine but weighted less and had a lower center of gravity?

Converted that they are nowhere near as bad as you seem to think, and that they're every bit as practical, more in some respects, than estate counterparts.

RE people saying they don't handle well, I'm going to say that, on UK roads at least, that if anyone is right at the limit of this then they're driving too fast.

[cerb4.5lee]

E65Ross said:

RE people saying they don't handle well, I'm going to say that, on UK roads at least, that if anyone is right at the limit of this then they're driving too fast.

I don't think SUV's necessarily handle badly, but its always got my goat when road testers describe them as handling like a car...they just don't as far as I'm concerned.

Their height/weight/shape determines that they can never handle like a normal car for me. Granted I've only had a SUV with 360bhp, but I'm guessing one with 600bhp should raise a big smile.

[Ares]

Bladedancer said:

E65Ross said:

MrGTI6 said:

Genuine question: What is the point of the X4? Isn't it just an X3 but worse (and more expensive)?

The same reason why the M4 exists over the M3.

Errr..... no. M4 has 2 doors and can be had as a convertible. M3 has 4 doors (shame there's no estate).
X3 and X4 both have 4 doors. X4 pretends to be coupe-like by having sloping roof. As if that could succeed on a car of that height.

Ok pedant. Same reason the 440i GC exists alongside the 340i.

[Ares]

Bladedancer said:

simonbamg said:

book a test drive in one i'm sure you will be converted

I'll bite. What will convert me?
The high ride which makes me feel I'm in a bus?
Sheer weight of the damn thing and how "lovely" it is to feel it in corners?
The realization that I'd have more fun in another car from the same manufacturer (M3/M5 perhaps?) that had the same/similar engine but weighted less and had a lower center of gravity?

Bigger issue is the chip on your shoulder.

[Ares]

cerb4.5lee said:

E65Ross said:

RE people saying they don't handle well, I'm going to say that, on UK roads at least, that if anyone is right at the limit of this then they're driving too fast.

I don't think SUV's necessarily handle badly, but its always got my goat when road testers describe them as handling like a car...they just don't as far as I'm concerned.

Their height/weight/shape determines that they can never handle like a normal car for me. Granted I've only had a SUV with 360bhp, but I'm guessing one with 600bhp should raise a big smile.

Depends on which SUV and which car!

[Bladedancer]

E65Ross said:

Converted that they are nowhere near as bad as you seem to think, and that they're every bit as practical, more in some respects, than estate counterparts.

"Nowhere near as bad" - scraping the bottom of the barrel here aren't we? Seeing something is "nowhere near as bad" is hardly going to get me converted.

Every bit as practical? Here we won't agree. I found SUV has to be huge outside to have decent space inside and the coupe-like ones are ridiculously impractical, unless you only ever ferry small children on the back seats.
And on the subject of being huge outside - how practical is that? Some of these things don't even fit in a 6-6 width restriction.
Plus they're tall, so people can't see past you - it's like you're driving a van but with a back window.

E65Ross said:

RE people saying they don't handle well, I'm going to say that, on UK roads at least, that if anyone is right at the limit of this then they're driving too fast.

See the point is that the limit is in different places for different cars.
So while taking a roundabout at 35-ish mph (in a 60 zone) in a normal, well sorted car weighting, oh I don't know, 1.2-1.5 tonnes, is perfectly normal and won't cause any issues, any tire squeel, doing the same in a 2.5 tonne 1.6+ m high behemoth will take it to the limit, and quite possible, beyond it.

[Bladedancer]

Ares said:

Bladedancer said:

simonbamg said:

book a test drive in one i'm sure you will be converted

I'll bite. What will convert me?
The high ride which makes me feel I'm in a bus?
Sheer weight of the damn thing and how "lovely" it is to feel it in corners?
The realization that I'd have more fun in another car from the same manufacturer (M3/M5 perhaps?) that had the same/similar engine but weighted less and had a lower center of gravity?

Bigger issue is the chip on your shoulder.

Care to elaborate or are you going to leave this one as a private joke you alone will be chuckling at?

[Wills2]

E65Ross said:

at someone saying they're going to be held up in the corners because of these cars' high CoG!!!! It'll be the drivers of the cars holding you up, or the driver behind being a tt. Wlling to bet this would go round corners faster than, say, a B7 RS4 Avant, and nobody would complain about that I'm sure.

I want to drive on these roads whereby the only thing that could hold you up is a quickly driven 500hp SUV, because I'm generally behind Doris in a Micra doing 28mph in an NSL whilst she brakes for a gentle corner.

[Bladedancer]

Ares said:

Depends on which SUV and which car!

So your argument is that if you cherry-pick, you'll prove your point?

[Ares]

Bladedancer said:

Ares said:

Bladedancer said:

simonbamg said:

book a test drive in one i'm sure you will be converted

I'll bite. What will convert me?
The high ride which makes me feel I'm in a bus?
Sheer weight of the damn thing and how "lovely" it is to feel it in corners?
The realization that I'd have more fun in another car from the same manufacturer (M3/M5 perhaps?) that had the same/similar engine but weighted less and had a lower center of gravity?

Bigger issue is the chip on your shoulder.

Care to elaborate or are you going to leave this one as a private joke you alone will be chuckling at?

It's not the joke I'm chuckling at.

If an X3 makes you feel like you're as high as a bus you're argumentative or an idiot.
Sheer weight...usually less than 10% more than the estate, and feeling nice in corners is different from driving at 10/10ths, clipping the apex in your pursuit for a lap record. Feeling nice in corners is often due to comfort, and often enhanced by the weight.
If you are only buying a car for driving fun, an SUV is never going to work.

But if you only try and nit-pick on the SUVs theoretic weaknesses, and shut yourself off from the benefits, your attitude is the bugger issue in liking a car outside of your comfort zone.

[Ares]

Bladedancer said:

Ares said:

Depends on which SUV and which car!

So your argument is that if you cherry-pick, you'll prove your point?

No. HTH.