RE: BMW exposes X3 and X4 M to the world

[DoubleD]

Ares said:

DoubleD said:

These are road cars, not track cars. I would imagine that they will corner more than quickly enough...and they probably wont even fall over.

But this is PH...... We always drive at 100%, always extracting maximum performance.

...unless it's manual gearbox, in which case being slower but 'purer' is the man's choice

Its all choice though. I prefer lower seated manual cars, but I would never want to stop someone having a taller car, or an automatic.

[Ares]

Nanook said:

Ares said:

Comment made by dealer when Mrs Ares looked at an X2 two weekends ago. He said the X1/X2 and X3/X4 were about 150mm taller than their saloon counterparts, about 2/3rd of that was driver seat position, but that the SUV seats could go an additional c50mm higher. Rear seats were higher.

Fair enough. An X5 is 10" taller than a 5-series, I'd have assumed most of that was the floorpan, and therefore everything 'inside' would have been higher by the same amount.

If you look at cars Vs SUVs, floorpan is higher, but internal space is also a lot taller....hence the practicality gains.

[E65Ross]

DoubleD said:

Ares said:

DoubleD said:

These are road cars, not track cars. I would imagine that they will corner more than quickly enough...and they probably wont even fall over.

But this is PH...... We always drive at 100%, always extracting maximum performance.

...unless it's manual gearbox, in which case being slower but 'purer' is the man's choice

Its all choice though. I prefer lower seated manual cars, but I would never want to stop someone having a taller car, or an automatic.

Same here; but some people on here who can't understand why some people prefer other things seem to think these things are built directly by Satan to purposefully block roads and ps off PHers.

[Ares]

Nanook said:

Ares said:

Nanook said:

Ares said:

Comment made by dealer when Mrs Ares looked at an X2 two weekends ago. He said the X1/X2 and X3/X4 were about 150mm taller than their saloon counterparts, about 2/3rd of that was driver seat position, but that the SUV seats could go an additional c50mm higher. Rear seats were higher.

Fair enough. An X5 is 10" taller than a 5-series, I'd have assumed most of that was the floorpan, and therefore everything 'inside' would have been higher by the same amount.

If you look at cars Vs SUVs, floorpan is higher, but internal space is also a lot taller....hence the practicality gains.

Some are, some aren't.

My old Shogun 'Sport' was pretty short inside, the floor was very high, and the roof, not so much.

Still higher than a saloon. I had a Shogun V6 LWB in 1996 for a month to replace a 3-series touring - far higher 'floor to roof'.

[vsonix]

E65Ross said:

arkenphel said:

I am glad that the replies to the article are sensible, for once. All this promoted hate and division by the article writers sometimes really annoys me.

It's like "there can only be one master race" kinda vibe.

And look what happened to those guys...

Pistonheads journos have the best job in the world, experiencing different types of cars and cultures. Shame they come away sounding like they haven't actually learned much or have an open mind.

I agree, it starts off even with the subtitle "X2 M35i not concerning enough? Welcome the full fat M cars..."

I mean.....concerning enough? Concerning enough for what? That a manufacturer is making a faster version of a car which people clearly want? The next line wondering if it was all a horrible dream? It doesn't stop there, the next paragraph stating that the X5/X6M were a big success "Heaven help us"....I mean, FFS, I stopped reading there.

Utter crap journalism, and completely bias. Rather than talking about the product with an open mind, and potentially viewing it from the cars point of view (ie from its USP, and what it offers to potential buyers) they (Matt Bird it seems) rambles on stating their own prejudices and distastes for these sorts of cars. Pathetic really.

Agreed. Whilst I can kind of see that level of vitriol in an article might have been vaguely relevant in the late 90s when plans for the first-gen X5 were revealed and a journalist might genuinely have thought that a BMW SUV would be a novelty that would never sell and go down in history as a terrible mistake, a couple of decades have passed and it has now been proven that a sizeable sector of the market loves SUVs so much that they will choose them over any other type of car as their main or only vehicle. Fair enough feel free to write an opinion piece about why you think SUVs are bad and estates are good or whatever but maybe save that for a later date rather than use the article announcing the arrival of a new model to lay into it and call it a pile of st - I mean why not wait for the thing to actually be made before levelling that type of criticism at it? Hardly going to endear Pistonheads to BMW, for one thing, I'm not suggesting kissing their bot-bots but at the same time it'd be a shame to lose access to early info and be kept out of the loop purely because some jumped-up blogger has a pathological dislike of 'Chelsea Tractors'.

From my point of view not super-into the X4 - even if it is just a scaled down X6 - the X6 works for me because of the sheer brutishness and size, downsizing it seems to undo all that presence. The X3 I like better and could see an M version going down well, especially if they manage to actually find some kind of a niche for it in actual motorsports. It'd be great if there was some sort of category invented in world rallying to cater for these slightly larger vehicles that have some kind of off-road (or at least, rough-road/gravel) pretensions.
For that matter it'd be quite interesting to see a full M version of the X1.

ETA - I think these new Mpower X-series aren't quite extreme enough. Visually speaking they would, to my eyes, benefit from a wider track with flared or box arches, and to work out some way of hiding arch gap a little - I realise there needs to be more wheel travel with this type of vehicle but the choice of wheel and tyre and the way they sit in the squared-off arch always strikes me as a little goofy-looking.

Edited by vsonix on Thursday 13th September 14:02

[Pumpsmynads]

PH member: “Love the G wagon AMG. Love the Bowler.” Either would be in my dream garage.”
Also PH member: “What’s the point of X<insert series> M? Pointless!”

[Rumblestripe]

Pumpsmynads said:

PH member: “Love the G wagon AMG. Love the Bowler.” Either would be in my dream garage.”
Also PH member: “What’s the point of X<insert series> M? Pointless!”

Two PH members have different opinions, who'da thunk it...

[E65Ross]

Rumblestripe said:

Pumpsmynads said:

PH member: “Love the G wagon AMG. Love the Bowler.” Either would be in my dream garage.”
Also PH member: “What’s the point of X<insert series> M? Pointless!”

Two PH members have different opinions, who'da thunk it...

I think he was implying that the same person said those 2 things.... Hence he said "also PH member" not "another PH member"

[Rumblestripe]

E65Ross said:

Rumblestripe said:

Pumpsmynads said:

PH member: “Love the G wagon AMG. Love the Bowler.” Either would be in my dream garage.”
Also PH member: “What’s the point of X<insert series> M? Pointless!”

Two PH members have different opinions, who'da thunk it...

I think he was implying that the same person said those 2 things.... Hence he said "also PH member" not "another PH member"

Hmmmm, yes I suppose he may have meant that, in which case he should have said

"Also same PH member: “What’s the point of X<insert series> M? Pointless!”

Mind, I find it hard to imagine that many would voice such a duplicitous opinion.

[Ares]

Rumblestripe said:

Mind, I find it hard to imagine that many would voice such a duplicitous opinion.

Are you new here?

[Quickmoose]

Face it people, if your niche doesn't match 'their' niche your opinion is of no importance and will get put down.

If you have bad knees and poor eyesight want to take a tall load, with 2 bikes and 3 kids on muddy tracks on a Friday after 4pm, get their quicker than the other guy, and have some subtle exterior go faster mods, these are the cars for you.

If you want to take a less tall load, with no bikes and less kids on less muddy tracks on a Saturday before noon and aren't so bothered when you get there and aren't persuaded by fake go-faster addenda, your choice is wider.

Opinion and choice is personal, marketing BS pervades all market sectors, welcome to PH. HTH

[CS Garth]

Quickmoose said:

If you have bad knees and poor eyesight want to take a tall load, with 2 bikes and 3 kids on muddy tracks on a Friday after 4pm, get their quicker than the other guy, and have some subtle exterior go faster mods, these are the cars for you.

Myopic, snatch and grab weight lifting family men - your car has arrived

[E65Ross]

Quickmoose said:

Face it people, if your niche doesn't match 'their' niche your opinion is of no importance and will get put down.

If you have bad knees and poor eyesight want to take a tall load, with 2 bikes and 3 kids on muddy tracks on a Friday after 4pm, get their quicker than the other guy, and have some subtle exterior go faster mods, these are the cars for you.

If you want to take a less tall load, with no bikes and less kids on less muddy tracks on a Saturday before noon and aren't so bothered when you get there and aren't persuaded by fake go-faster addenda, your choice is wider.

Opinion and choice is personal, marketing BS pervades all market sectors, welcome to PH. HTH

Welcome to PH, where you aren't allowed to ever buy something just because you want one. Unless it has a roll cage, no interior, manual gearbox (for manly people) and only 2 seats.

[J4CKO]

E65Ross said:

Quickmoose said:

Face it people, if your niche doesn't match 'their' niche your opinion is of no importance and will get put down.

If you have bad knees and poor eyesight want to take a tall load, with 2 bikes and 3 kids on muddy tracks on a Friday after 4pm, get their quicker than the other guy, and have some subtle exterior go faster mods, these are the cars for you.

If you want to take a less tall load, with no bikes and less kids on less muddy tracks on a Saturday before noon and aren't so bothered when you get there and aren't persuaded by fake go-faster addenda, your choice is wider.

Opinion and choice is personal, marketing BS pervades all market sectors, welcome to PH. HTH

Welcome to PH, where you aren't allowed to ever buy something just because you want one. Unless it has a roll cage, no interior, manual gearbox (for manly people) and only 2 seats.

Yeah, I found myself trying to convince the 62 year old bloke I work with not to replace his ten year old Corsa he has had from new with another Corsa, it has served him and his wife well, he likes it and he isnt arsed about oversteer, engagement and all that stuff, it is a thing for transporting him, his wife and whatever else he choose to do with it.

He spends more on camera gear than it has cost him, so me telling him to get something more exciting is a bit like him telling me the camera on my iPhone is crap and I need a three grand 20 megapixel digital SLR and a selection of lenses.

[aeropilot]

cerb4.5lee said:

I do like the higher driving position of a SUV, but I thought my 5 series Touring drove far better(steering much better/less weight/better in the bends/braked much better) than my X5.

The X5 was also terrible off road(tried it once) because of the 315 section road tyres on 20" wheels(granted you can use different wheels/tyres if you need to use it off road).

That's likely because you made the mistake of buying a X5 M-Sport version for the looks......

My X5 SE spec with same size rims and all-seasons, has performed more than adequately 'off-road'.....

[cerb4.5lee]

aeropilot said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I do like the higher driving position of a SUV, but I thought my 5 series Touring drove far better(steering much better/less weight/better in the bends/braked much better) than my X5.

The X5 was also terrible off road(tried it once) because of the 315 section road tyres on 20" wheels(granted you can use different wheels/tyres if you need to use it off road).

That's likely because you made the mistake of buying a X5 M-Sport version for the looks......

My X5 SE spec with same size rims and all-seasons, has performed more than adequately 'off-road'.....

I purchased it mainly for its 4.8 V8 engine! Then I soon realised that the engine was a bit of a waste in something that weighs 2.2 tonne...has 4wd and is the shape of a garden shed!!

[aeropilot]

cerb4.5lee said:

aeropilot said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I do like the higher driving position of a SUV, but I thought my 5 series Touring drove far better(steering much better/less weight/better in the bends/braked much better) than my X5.

The X5 was also terrible off road(tried it once) because of the 315 section road tyres on 20" wheels(granted you can use different wheels/tyres if you need to use it off road).

That's likely because you made the mistake of buying a X5 M-Sport version for the looks......

My X5 SE spec with same size rims and all-seasons, has performed more than adequately 'off-road'.....

I purchased it mainly for its 4.8 V8 engine! Then I soon realised that the engine was a bit of a waste in something that weighs 2.2 tonne...has 4wd and is the shape of a garden shed!!

Understand that POV.....
I bought a 40d largely for the extra grunt over the 30d, but while the stonking torque makes me smile, it's really largely pointless to be honest.
The 30d would have been more than adequate for the task of lugging the thing around in the type of driving that you do in these things.

[cerb4.5lee]

aeropilot said:

cerb4.5lee said:

aeropilot said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I do like the higher driving position of a SUV, but I thought my 5 series Touring drove far better(steering much better/less weight/better in the bends/braked much better) than my X5.

The X5 was also terrible off road(tried it once) because of the 315 section road tyres on 20" wheels(granted you can use different wheels/tyres if you need to use it off road).

That's likely because you made the mistake of buying a X5 M-Sport version for the looks......

My X5 SE spec with same size rims and all-seasons, has performed more than adequately 'off-road'.....

I purchased it mainly for its 4.8 V8 engine! Then I soon realised that the engine was a bit of a waste in something that weighs 2.2 tonne...has 4wd and is the shape of a garden shed!!

Understand that POV.....
I bought a 40d largely for the extra grunt over the 30d, but while the stonking torque makes me smile, it's really largely pointless to be honest.
The 30d would have been more than adequate for the task of lugging the thing around in the type of driving that you do in these things.

Agree.

[Ares]

aeropilot said:

Understand that POV.....
I bought a 40d largely for the extra grunt over the 30d, but while the stonking torque makes me smile, it's really largely pointless to be honest.
The 30d would have been more than adequate for the task of lugging the thing around in the type of driving that you do in these things.

'Adequate' sits at the opposite end of the spectrum to 'V8'

[aeropilot]

Ares said:

aeropilot said:

Understand that POV.....
I bought a 40d largely for the extra grunt over the 30d, but while the stonking torque makes me smile, it's really largely pointless to be honest.
The 30d would have been more than adequate for the task of lugging the thing around in the type of driving that you do in these things.

'Adequate' sits at the opposite end of the spectrum to 'V8'

I have a proper V8 sitting packed away waiting to go back into the weekend toy........