RE: Aston Martin Rapide E details

[Neil1300r]

donteatpeople said:

gigglebug said:

Motorsport3 said:

To me this looks as wrong for AM, as if Tesla tomorrow embarked to produce a petrol engine car based on Tesla S. Basically an afterthought. I understand that they want to launch an IPO but would be much wiser to try to present a road map than try to modify the old Rapide and claim "they arrived".

My first thought was to the use of the Rapide as it stands now as well. It makes sense for it to be the model chosen out of the AM range but it's getting on a bit now and must be due a significant update soon so why not coincide the inclusion of this variant with the launch of any overall improvements to get the full promotional benefit and to not date this particular model before it's had a real chance to have an impact on folks perception.

Why would it be a limited run model? 155 doesn't seem to be a massive figure, especially if it gets a positive reception.

Is that a massive battery pack in the engine bay? If so I wonder how much weight distribution has been transferred towards the front of the car?

It could be they're treating this low volume model as a prototype / market research tool to inform decisions they're making for the next model.

The first all electric model is scheduled to be the DBX. Which is what the Welesh factory is being built for

[spikyone]

The Crack Fox said:

nicfaz said:

We will look back in twenty years ... everyone else will be electric

Funny, that. Fifty years ago people were saying much the same thing. Here's GE in 1970;

Except that in 1970 the technology was a million miles away from being ready. Just look at the performance goals in that article, 0-30mph in 9 seconds and a range of 55 miles was a bad joke even then. They also aimed at $5,000, or just under double the price of this:



In 1970 there was no-one pushing the environmental agenda; no focus on reducing CO2 emissions and no drive from governments towards removing ICE-only cars from the roads. In 20 years, we'll be closing in on the UK and France banning the sale of petrol and diesel cars entirely. Diesel cars will be banned from entering Paris in just over 5 years and petrol will be banned 5 years after that.
Not to mention that we aren't breeding petrolheads any more. The number of teenagers taking the driving test has fallen off a cliff (down 30% in the last 10 years). That's partly down to cost, but also down to a shift towards a sharing/streaming economy. Most of today's under-20s will be happy to use a self-driving electric car, which they won't actually own but will be owned by Uber or Zipcar.

I'm no fan of electric cars, and will persevere with petrol as long as I can, but you'd have to be fairly naive to think that they'll be anything other than a rare sight in 20 years.

[RacerMike]

spikyone said:

That's partly down to cost, but also down to a shift towards a sharing/streaming economy. Most of today's under-20s will be happy to use a self-driving electric car, which they won't actually own but will be owned by Uber or Zipcar.

Everyone (over the age of 30) keeps saying this, but I'm not convinced. I went back to my secondary school last year to give a talk, and literally all of them were as keen on cars as I, or my friends were at the same age. Two in fact were monumentally disappointed that the Defender was no longer in production as they'd always wanted one.

Whilst I strongly support EV vehicles and more advanced autonomous cruise, I'm really not convinced that the number of actual car enthusiasts is any less than it was 20 years ago. The number of people taking tests is down yes, but then when I was 17, loads of people took it because 'it was the thing to do' and then promptly never got a car or drove anywhere. I suspect this is where the 30% drop comes from....those who have been put off by the high price because they never had an interest in cars in the first place. The reality was, out of a year of a couple of hundred, there was really only 15-20 of us who were what you'd consider car enthusiasts. At least this many were present from what I saw!

[gigglebug]

Neil1300r said:

donteatpeople said:

gigglebug said:

Motorsport3 said:

To me this looks as wrong for AM, as if Tesla tomorrow embarked to produce a petrol engine car based on Tesla S. Basically an afterthought. I understand that they want to launch an IPO but would be much wiser to try to present a road map than try to modify the old Rapide and claim "they arrived".

My first thought was to the use of the Rapide as it stands now as well. It makes sense for it to be the model chosen out of the AM range but it's getting on a bit now and must be due a significant update soon so why not coincide the inclusion of this variant with the launch of any overall improvements to get the full promotional benefit and to not date this particular model before it's had a real chance to have an impact on folks perception.

Why would it be a limited run model? 155 doesn't seem to be a massive figure, especially if it gets a positive reception.

Is that a massive battery pack in the engine bay? If so I wonder how much weight distribution has been transferred towards the front of the car?

It could be they're treating this low volume model as a prototype / market research tool to inform decisions they're making for the next model.

The first all electric model is scheduled to be the DBX. Which is what the Welesh factory is being built for

Ah, I see. Thank you for that. How much can they realistically expect to learn from this model then outside of the knowledge and experience gained from spending time with the base technology? If the DBX is going to be designed from the ground up as a stand alone electric car, or is the DBX going to be covered by multiple powertrains, surely it will not follow the packaging limitations set by this particular effort anyway? And from a marketing point of view would it not be easier to gauge the potential for an electric model if the car in question was fresh and new, like the Porsche Mission E for example, as oppose to being a compromised version of an ageing model which possibly wouldn't appeal to folks even if they were interested in the idea of an electric Aston Martin as it would be potentially out of date before it's started.

[oilit]

I actually think this is great news - if I had the cash I would have bought one - in the meantime I guess I'm stuck with my Nissan Leaf!

If you look long term, having Lagonda as an alternative fuel brand -this almost suggests that the decision to not reinvent the wheel (ie OEM the Mercedes engines) make a good basis for a 5-10 year plan.

The previous V12 engine was first introduced in the DB7 in 1999 - and was still being used in earnest across all models until let's say next year - approx 20 years.

Nations are driving to a fossil fuel free future of cars as per below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ba...

2030 seems to be the first major date - which is 12 years out - not ideal timeline and volume for a low volume manufacture to develop engines !

[anonymous-user]

framerateuk said:

My only complaint about this is how the battery cover looks in the engine bay

I think I'd rather see through to the batteries with immaculately tied cables connecting them all. Something just seems off about having a huge black metal box.

The pictures in this article are of the prototype demonstrator, and not the actual production model. To avoid issues with crash re-cert, the ePowertain is a direct, mount-for-mount swap for the ICE one! ie the battery and motor are hung, just like the V12 and gearbox off four "soft" mounts, 2 front, 2 rear. The 'battery' with modules housed in a carbon fibre backbone box fills the entire front, middle and most of the back of the vehicle, and the motors are hung off the back of the battery pack and drive the rear wheels!

Pictures on AndyP's twitter feed:






The layout is a total nightmare in terms of design, build and packaging, but is the only way to cram enough range into a car not designed to take an EV architecture, without a complete tear up of the BIW!

[julian64]

Do we have a weight for this car?

[gigglebug]

Max_Torque said:

The pictures in this article are of the prototype demonstrator, and not the actual production model. To avoid issues with crash re-cert, the ePowertain is a direct, mount-for-mount swap for the ICE one! ie the battery and motor are hung, just like the V12 and gearbox off four "soft" mounts, 2 front, 2 rear. The 'battery' with modules housed in a carbon fibre backbone box fills the entire front, middle and most of the back of the vehicle, and the motors are hung off the back of the battery pack and drive the rear wheels!

Pictures on AndyP's twitter feed:






The layout is a total nightmare in terms of design, build and packaging, but is the only way to cram enough range into a car not designed to take an EV architecture, without a complete tear up of the BIW!

Thank you for the post. Really interesting to see the physical size of the battery's involved. It does seem like an awful lot of effort for what appears to be a stepping stone car with only 150 odd units planned but maybe the fact is that they are there merely there to help fund any upcoming venture involving a pure EV? I'd expect Aston to produce a real good looker when they can exploit the benefits of designing an electric car from scratch and it's packaging advantages though.

I thought the Rapide would have been a better opportunity to showcase their upcoming hybrid plans personally with the new V8 in the front and some sort of motor/battery at the back.

[LuS1fer]

Can you claim the Government grant of £5000 towards it?

I mean that could be make or break...

[tr3a]

So after six years A-M has commissioned somebody else to improve on Tesla's 2012 design, with a reworked fossil burner that now sports a rather pedestrian 65 kWh battery, which offers just 200 miles of range.

Meanwhile, Tesla has come up with the Model P3D, the battery of which doesn't have the power limitations of the Model S and which will soon get Track Mode through an OTA update.

Come on, Aston, get with it! So far, you're just being pathetic.

[Jonesy23]

HardMiles said:

If someone has a way to recycle the cars (stop using carbon except for race cars) too as that becomes ocean fill (what else can you do with it?), then I’d be interested.

You do know you can recycle carbon fibre?

You chop it up, cook it to reduce it back to the raw fibres then use it as fill in molded components ('forged composite' is a popular description) or anywhere else where chopped strands are useful.

A lot of the feed stock currently comes from manufacturing offcuts and surplus.

[HardMiles]

MOOSECORTINA said:

Just about to do a trip to Angouleme in France from Manchester in a 5 litre 1968 Ford Falcon. Dred to think how boring it would be in a milk float. if you could charge it up. Oh you cant at Portsmouth ferry terminal.

Good lad. Someone gets the love for the oldies!

[danp]

Looks like a lash up to me, not sure that they should be crowing about their drivetrain compared to Tesla... And the range is about 20% more than a 40kWh Leaf.

As mentioned perhaps it’ll look good as a bit of greenwash in their prospectus, but look forward to them doing it properly in the future.

[anonymous-user]

gigglebug said:

I'd expect Aston to produce a real good looker when they can exploit the benefits of designing an electric car from scratch and it's packaging advantages though.

To date, no-one has managed to find the perfect EV architecture for a front engined sports car, where you want the occupants asses as close to the ground as possible. The classic 'skate board' type affair, with battery modules packaged under the floor forces a higher seating layout, fine for an SUV or city car,or even a large saloon, but not ideal for something with proper sporting intent. So, that then means packaging batteries in a shorter more vertically oriented envelope, for example, behind and across the seating area (a-la P1 / 918 etc) which is fine for "EVing" a mid engined vehicle, but doesn't recreate typical dynamics of a front engined GT type one.

Aston, imo, need to decide where there future lies and to get on with it !

[anonymous-user]

danp said:

Looks like a lash up to me,

well it is really. An expensive, carbon fibre lash up, but a lash up none the less....... ;-)

[Kermit74]

HardMiles said:

Petrol cars produce some CO2, but that’s plant food, they need it to breathe?!!!!! Then they make us oxygen.

Truly the most f**king retarded comment I've ever herd on here.

[gigglebug]

Max_Torque said:

To date, no-one has managed to find the perfect EV architecture for a front engined sports car, where you want the occupants asses as close to the ground as possible. The classic 'skate board' type affair, with battery modules packaged under the floor forces a higher seating layout, fine for an SUV or city car,or even a large saloon, but not ideal for something with proper sporting intent. So, that then means packaging batteries in a shorter more vertically oriented envelope, for example, behind and across the seating area (a-la P1 / 918 etc) which is fine for "EVing" a mid engined vehicle, but doesn't recreate typical dynamics of a front engined GT type one.

Aston, imo, need to decide where there future lies and to get on with it !

Which route have Tesla followed with the roadster?

So we are a long way off from having an ideal of all the weight of the powertrain and batteries very low down and within the wheelbase? Will batteries ever become compact enough?

[RobDickinson]

Max_Torque said:

To date, no-one has managed to find the perfect EV architecture for a front engined sports car, where you want the occupants asses as close to the ground as possible. The classic 'skate board' type affair, with battery modules packaged under the floor forces a higher seating layout, fine for an SUV or city car,or even a large saloon, but not ideal for something with proper sporting intent. So, that then means packaging batteries in a shorter more vertically oriented envelope, for example, behind and across the seating area (a-la P1 / 918 etc) which is fine for "EVing" a mid engined vehicle, but doesn't recreate typical dynamics of a front engined GT type one.

Aston, imo, need to decide where there future lies and to get on with it !

Not true, rimac have in their latest car no batteries where you sit, really well packaged.

Tbh the skateboard layout is fine for most cars though, who knows with the new Tesla roasster

[RobDickinson]

As for this Aston. I'm sure it'll sell but frankly it's stats suck it'll be left looking like a joke next to a P3d from an actual use pov. Lashup. Surprised they didn't go for the Williams skateboard platform as a first car.

[Mackofthejungle]

spikyone said:

Except that in 1970 the technology was a million miles away from being ready. Just look at the performance goals in that article, 0-30mph in 9 seconds and a range of 55 miles was a bad joke even then.

The technology was about the same. These are just electric motors and batteries - it's as basic as it gets. Sticking a TV inside it does not make it the future.