RE: Mazda RX-8: PH Heroes
Discussion
J2daG1990 said:
Berkut666 said:
I had the PZ Ltd Ed a few years back. Sold my Evo 6 and bought a low mileage very clean one. Went into the purchase eyes open (yes it was slower than the Evo, I knew they drank oil and petrol, painful when things went wrong etc) It had been a few years since owning anything RWD so I was open to the change.
Things I loved - The look, the doors, the seating position, the lay out of the interior with the placement of the gearstick especially being perfect for me, the noise when driven hard, surprisingly comfy for 4 people, even the boot wasn't bad considering the styling.
Things I didnt mind - Fuel and oil consumption. Went into it open minded so I knew it would happen. Used about 1L of Oil every 1000 miles. Some are better, some way worse.
I hated 1 thing and 1 thing only. The handling. It was awful, to the point it was dangerous. It put the rear out in any weather and at most speeds. At first I thought it was me so I let other try it and they agreed. So I spent alot of cash on the car. Tyres, suspension, alignment etc etc and it was still awful. Even in the dry, driving Mrs Daisy, it would squirrel about with the traction light flashing. Not in a fun way but in a "ahhhhhh I am going to die" way. No RWD I had before or after was that bad. Maybe it was just mine but it would put me off another.
Must have been your car because mine is the complete opposite.Things I loved - The look, the doors, the seating position, the lay out of the interior with the placement of the gearstick especially being perfect for me, the noise when driven hard, surprisingly comfy for 4 people, even the boot wasn't bad considering the styling.
Things I didnt mind - Fuel and oil consumption. Went into it open minded so I knew it would happen. Used about 1L of Oil every 1000 miles. Some are better, some way worse.
I hated 1 thing and 1 thing only. The handling. It was awful, to the point it was dangerous. It put the rear out in any weather and at most speeds. At first I thought it was me so I let other try it and they agreed. So I spent alot of cash on the car. Tyres, suspension, alignment etc etc and it was still awful. Even in the dry, driving Mrs Daisy, it would squirrel about with the traction light flashing. Not in a fun way but in a "ahhhhhh I am going to die" way. No RWD I had before or after was that bad. Maybe it was just mine but it would put me off another.
Admittedly when first got mine (2yrs old and at 14k) there was something amiss with the handling - it would step out occasionally and there was the odd clunk from the rear. After a couple of trips to one dealer, another found that the rear to be stiff and so replaced the rear shocks (looked like one shock was semi-seized) This transformed the car (or should I say restored) Later in my ownership I took it too WIM who set it up to fast road spec. Wow! Is all I can say.
I’m still deliberating as to which is the best handling car I’ve owned: the E90 M3 or the RX8
Regarding tyres, yes the RE40s where poor in the wet and cold (though very good on track, if it wasn’t any of the above) and though the RE50s where better overall, I found they took away a little bit of sharpness.
Coincidentally my 2007 RX8 is sat waiting for collection by a salvage company right now, as I've just replaced it with a TT. It works but has a few dents, a cracked windscreen, needs new tyres, and frankly I don't want to spend the money to make it saleable to only expect £1500 at best.
Yes, the RX8 drives beautifully - the only real flaw from this perspective is the relative lack of torque, but this is just part of the character of the car. It revs and pulls so smoothly it feels like nothing else I've ever driven and there is a huge amount of value in that novelty. If I'm being honest, the TT is a rather dull, ordinary vehicle by comparison.
However - those other flaws. The upkeep maintenance, the rule about never switching off the engine cold (or suffer fuel flooding that will not clear itself), the road tax, the fuel use. The upsides of the RX8 do not compensate for all of that, in my opinion, by a long chalk. Supercar fuel consumption (I'm really not kidding) and upkeep is simply not matched by what the Rotary engine does provide.
My new TT is a rather ordinary 4 cylinder Turbo, which will give me nearly twice the fuel economy, 150% the torque far less expected maintenance and far less hassle - which I will pay for with the rather weighty, dull handling.
Since I spend most of the time driving these cars on ordinary roads, in my eyes this is a no-brainer.
Yes, the RX8 drives beautifully - the only real flaw from this perspective is the relative lack of torque, but this is just part of the character of the car. It revs and pulls so smoothly it feels like nothing else I've ever driven and there is a huge amount of value in that novelty. If I'm being honest, the TT is a rather dull, ordinary vehicle by comparison.
However - those other flaws. The upkeep maintenance, the rule about never switching off the engine cold (or suffer fuel flooding that will not clear itself), the road tax, the fuel use. The upsides of the RX8 do not compensate for all of that, in my opinion, by a long chalk. Supercar fuel consumption (I'm really not kidding) and upkeep is simply not matched by what the Rotary engine does provide.
My new TT is a rather ordinary 4 cylinder Turbo, which will give me nearly twice the fuel economy, 150% the torque far less expected maintenance and far less hassle - which I will pay for with the rather weighty, dull handling.
Since I spend most of the time driving these cars on ordinary roads, in my eyes this is a no-brainer.
Vocal Minority said:
I hill climb mine in the Midland Championship, and aside from being too heavy to be truly competitive in a class of french hot hatches it is great fun. I find the handling very balanced and posied, the back breaks progressively, and then only when I am chucking it around. I grant you it can be loose in the wet, but only when pushing on.
To illustrate, on a sodden day on ice cold Nankang AR1s I have a twitch round Orchard at Prescott - which is this corner
Tiny litle fidget and easily catchable. It's flat out in the dry.
The car handles well and loves being revved. I am really enjoying it.
Nice to see another used for competition. Personally I'm glad everyone's scared of owning them - it means we could pick up a perfectly serviceable example for a grand and spend a year thrashing it around sprint events!To illustrate, on a sodden day on ice cold Nankang AR1s I have a twitch round Orchard at Prescott - which is this corner
Tiny litle fidget and easily catchable. It's flat out in the dry.
The car handles well and loves being revved. I am really enjoying it.
I reckon it's done about 250-300 full-bore launches and about 400 track laps since we got it. It's still working very well, despite our best efforts
Was one of the first to put an order in for one when they were announced £1k down on a car that had only just been prototyped but waited over a year for it and it really impressed me. Coupled with a day at Prodrive learning the car on their handling circuit and on track it really enhanced the buying experience. Sold the car after a year due to overseas worked but lost very little as they were still very hot property then and a massive wait list still. Went for the Hi-Power in Velociiy Red with Rotary accents...it's a real shame that Mazda shafted themselves by recommending the wrong mineral oil from the get go thus resulting in lots of very worn rotor tips and many engines were scrapped or rebuilt. The handling was excellent due to the weight distribution and position of the Renesis engine.
I've lusted for another at some point but buyer beware and only get one with a full compression test or even better buy one with hot starting problems for peanuts and get a proper rebuild done by Haywood rotary or rotechnics with a warranty in place....
I've lusted for another at some point but buyer beware and only get one with a full compression test or even better buy one with hot starting problems for peanuts and get a proper rebuild done by Haywood rotary or rotechnics with a warranty in place....
They're really handsome cars. Probably if they'd made a non-rotary version with a V6 or a turbo 4 it would have been a massive sales success. I love the idea of the rotary and the fact it exists makes me happy, although I'd have loved to see another option for people that didn't want the commitment to expensive fuel and servicing.
vsonix said:
They're really handsome cars. Probably if they'd made a non-rotary version with a V6 or a turbo 4 it would have been a massive sales success. I love the idea of the rotary and the fact it exists makes me happy, although I'd have loved to see another option for people that didn't want the commitment to expensive fuel and servicing.
This is always I think the muddled thinking around the RX8 - where people think it'd be exactly the same car, just with a different engineThe joy of it is as much - if not more - in the handling as the engine. The main reason for that handling is that the car is to all intents and purposes, mid-engined. The rotor chambers or deep down in the engine bay and WELL behind the front axle.
To give it a V6 or even a turbo I4 would have been to take a heavier engine, and move that weight forward in the chassis and raise the centre of gravity - and bang goes the handling.
I think the wider petrol head community - in their eagerness to trash the engine - overlook this fairly simple concept.
I test drove one a couple of years back and loved it. Even in a ten minute blast I was sold on the general feel of driving it and it didn't feel underpowered for day to day use, loved the smoothness. Even to a limited driver like me I could tell that the weight was all low down.
Unfortunately the one I looked at had very ropey history and needed a few bits sorting, e.g. tyres. Sadly it had some rust bubbling up in various places too which I believe is quite common. I turned down the chance in the end but was incredibly keen to get a good one. But the limited parking by our house (and subsequent short distant manoeuvres) required something that didn't need to be left running for a while every time we wanted to swap cars round.
Still have a major hankering for one but although we've got the space for one now it's not really the ideal kid/dog machine.
Unfortunately the one I looked at had very ropey history and needed a few bits sorting, e.g. tyres. Sadly it had some rust bubbling up in various places too which I believe is quite common. I turned down the chance in the end but was incredibly keen to get a good one. But the limited parking by our house (and subsequent short distant manoeuvres) required something that didn't need to be left running for a while every time we wanted to swap cars round.
Still have a major hankering for one but although we've got the space for one now it's not really the ideal kid/dog machine.
Being a serial RX7 owner, the RX8 has always been on my radar. Looking at the negatives -
Oil Usage - Meh
Fuel Usage - its in double figures, so not the worst thing in the world
Lack of torque - This is probably the biggest reason i haven't got one yet, i have been spoilt with turbo rotary action....
Rebuilds - again, Meh. Minimal moving parts makes doing a rebuild yourself relatively easy
When i get one, i'd probably get one for £200 with a blown engine and a decent (rust free) shell, rebuild the engine and port the f
k out of it, or build a 3 rotor (not sure how easy it would be to stick a cosmo engine in). Wouldn't bother with FI.
Oil Usage - Meh
Fuel Usage - its in double figures, so not the worst thing in the world
Lack of torque - This is probably the biggest reason i haven't got one yet, i have been spoilt with turbo rotary action....
Rebuilds - again, Meh. Minimal moving parts makes doing a rebuild yourself relatively easy
When i get one, i'd probably get one for £200 with a blown engine and a decent (rust free) shell, rebuild the engine and port the f
k out of it, or build a 3 rotor (not sure how easy it would be to stick a cosmo engine in). Wouldn't bother with FI.An awful proposition. Mazda marketed it as a car for the casual every day user but really it needed specialist care and knowledge, and even then it was Russian Roulette as to whether it would still work after the initial warranty period.
Pros:
- Handled well
- Direct and rewarding steering
- Well equipped
- Practical
Cons:
- Very twitchy on the OEM Bridgestone's, and I mean very
- You had the wring the engines neck to be able to make any meaningful progress at all times. Not a cruiser at all
- Engine was a ticking time bomb. So many failures, and very few cars made it past 60,000 miles without hot start issues and the inevitable rebuilds
- Sounded like a washing machine at 8000 RPM
- Fuel economy similar to that of early 2000s Ferrari's and Lambo's. I genuinely averaged 12mpg around town in the winter
- Oil consumption wasn't actually an issue really, but people always say it is so I'm putting it here
- Top wack road tax band - nobody wanted to pay it for such a stty car
But the absolute worst thing about owning an RX-8 were the deluded fanboys on the owners club forums; a genuinely unhinged set of brainwashed simpletons.
Was glad to see the back of it when it finally went. Bought at 5 years old for £6,000 sold a couple of years later after many months at £3300.
There's a reason why they can be had for the same price as one night's stay in The Shard.
Pros:
- Handled well
- Direct and rewarding steering
- Well equipped
- Practical
Cons:
- Very twitchy on the OEM Bridgestone's, and I mean very
- You had the wring the engines neck to be able to make any meaningful progress at all times. Not a cruiser at all
- Engine was a ticking time bomb. So many failures, and very few cars made it past 60,000 miles without hot start issues and the inevitable rebuilds
- Sounded like a washing machine at 8000 RPM
- Fuel economy similar to that of early 2000s Ferrari's and Lambo's. I genuinely averaged 12mpg around town in the winter
- Oil consumption wasn't actually an issue really, but people always say it is so I'm putting it here
- Top wack road tax band - nobody wanted to pay it for such a s
tty carBut the absolute worst thing about owning an RX-8 were the deluded fanboys on the owners club forums; a genuinely unhinged set of brainwashed simpletons.
Was glad to see the back of it when it finally went. Bought at 5 years old for £6,000 sold a couple of years later after many months at £3300.
There's a reason why they can be had for the same price as one night's stay in The Shard.
havoc said:
Nickp82 said:
Berkut666 said:
I had the PZ Ltd Ed a few years back... Even in the dry, driving Mrs Daisy, it would squirrel about with the traction light flashing. Not in a fun way but in a "ahhhhhh I am going to die" way. No RWD I had before or after was that bad. Maybe it was just mine but it would put me off another.
Definitely something not right there, RX-8s with decent tyres do not behave in that manner
I've only driven a couple, but both were sweet-handling.
Rear-biased, sure, and an aggressively-taken S-bend WOULD see the tail step-out. But easily collected, and driven smoothly it's probably slightly better than the S2000 I owned (which was fairly exploitable and not particularly scary once I'd had the geo properly sorted).
I too owned an S2000 which also handled beautifully but more 'scary' than an RX8 if provoked (still quite 'catch-able' though).
Vocal Minority said:
vsonix said:
They're really handsome cars. Probably if they'd made a non-rotary version with a V6 or a turbo 4 it would have been a massive sales success. I love the idea of the rotary and the fact it exists makes me happy, although I'd have loved to see another option for people that didn't want the commitment to expensive fuel and servicing.
This is always I think the muddled thinking around the RX8 - where people think it'd be exactly the same car, just with a different engineThe joy of it is as much - if not more - in the handling as the engine. The main reason for that handling is that the car is to all intents and purposes, mid-engined. The rotor chambers or deep down in the engine bay and WELL behind the front axle.
To give it a V6 or even a turbo I4 would have been to take a heavier engine, and move that weight forward in the chassis and raise the centre of gravity - and bang goes the handling.
I think the wider petrol head community - in their eagerness to trash the engine - overlook this fairly simple concept.
Just seems a massive waste of a great body style to not offer a few different versions.
I've seen a few different engine swapped RX8s on various forums, including 2JZ and LS conversions, so it's not impossible to do even if it compromises the ideal.
I get that most owners (and reviews) go on about the lovely handling, hence why I was so surprised at mine. Initially test drove it in the pouring rain and that's why I dismissed the fact it had a slidey back end when I drove it.
But it was just as bad in the dry. I spent about 5K trying to sort the issue. Chassis was checked that it was straight, and it had no signs of repair, all the suspension, tracking etc changed out. Wheels were even put to a specialist to check they were all as should be (the guy does welding, repairs and checks they are round). All 4 tyre's changed twice in 3k miles. First time with P-zeros (my personal preference) and second time with Bridgestones as per factory. £5k on a car that cost me £6.5k to buy so I genuinely wanted it to work! Last resort I put it to a a track car specialist by me to get it all set up and even that didn't help. Everyone who drove it said "thats not right......"
Prior to that I owned several BMW's, A Merc and an MX5. Since I have had an E90 M3. All have been amazing. So I cant even blame a lack of knowledge or ownership of RWD cars.
With all that and my first post I wouldn't say its put me off them. I have looked at getting a toy to supplement the current fleet and I would certainly test drive one of these again.
But it was just as bad in the dry. I spent about 5K trying to sort the issue. Chassis was checked that it was straight, and it had no signs of repair, all the suspension, tracking etc changed out. Wheels were even put to a specialist to check they were all as should be (the guy does welding, repairs and checks they are round). All 4 tyre's changed twice in 3k miles. First time with P-zeros (my personal preference) and second time with Bridgestones as per factory. £5k on a car that cost me £6.5k to buy so I genuinely wanted it to work! Last resort I put it to a a track car specialist by me to get it all set up and even that didn't help. Everyone who drove it said "thats not right......"
Prior to that I owned several BMW's, A Merc and an MX5. Since I have had an E90 M3. All have been amazing. So I cant even blame a lack of knowledge or ownership of RWD cars.
With all that and my first post I wouldn't say its put me off them. I have looked at getting a toy to supplement the current fleet and I would certainly test drive one of these again.
This car (I had an R3) is one of the best handling cars out there, if you like your driving to be involving rather than point and squirt then there are not many better b-road killers. There is a knack to getting the best out of the car (low gear holding higher revs as you had such a wide band), but once you tune to it its miles and smiles.
Anyone own LR58 OEH?
Anyone own LR58 OEH?
A backstreet garage can stuff things into cars and get them through an MOT that an OEM couldn't homologate. But you can buy the same sort of thing with a piston engine - a GT86. That's a lot more reliable and economical. Or if you want something with comparable smoothness, a 3-series coupe with a straight six. You have to make other compromises, but them's the breaks. And if you can live without the back seats, there's the 350Z, but I really didn't like ours much. Made a nice noise, that was about it.
Harji said:
This car (I had an R3) is one of the best handling cars out there, if you like your driving to be involving rather than point and squirt then there are not many better b-road killers. There is a knack to getting the best out of the car (low gear holding higher revs as you had such a wide band), but once you tune to it its miles and smiles.
Anyone own LR58 OEH?
I know where this car is, have emailed you.Anyone own LR58 OEH?
Had my RX-8 231 just over a year now. The only thing its needed is new ignition leads (original Mazda ones were becoming brittle) and a new cat which is pretty common on these.
The 'massive' oil usage is a myth. They use more than a typical piston engine bit its not much at all. Fuel I agree with though, if I use mine as a daily around town I can empty a tank in just over 120 miles. It's ridiculous for the amount of power.
However, I still think these are hugely underrated and unfortunately the horror stories have put a lot of people off them. I myself wouldnt have touched one...until I test drove one out of interest. The noise, the smoothness, the way they handle is just incredible. They're not that quick in a straight line but they're made for blasting down B-roads. I had a S15 Silvia turbo a few years ago and honestly believe the RX-8 would give it a good run for its money on track.
I love mine and because of the reputation they're an absolute bargain- IF you hold out for a good one and look after it. Great cars but definitely not for everyone.
Mine just ticked over 50,000 miles today and feels great so far. (In before it blows up tomorrow).
The 'massive' oil usage is a myth. They use more than a typical piston engine bit its not much at all. Fuel I agree with though, if I use mine as a daily around town I can empty a tank in just over 120 miles. It's ridiculous for the amount of power.
However, I still think these are hugely underrated and unfortunately the horror stories have put a lot of people off them. I myself wouldnt have touched one...until I test drove one out of interest. The noise, the smoothness, the way they handle is just incredible. They're not that quick in a straight line but they're made for blasting down B-roads. I had a S15 Silvia turbo a few years ago and honestly believe the RX-8 would give it a good run for its money on track.
I love mine and because of the reputation they're an absolute bargain- IF you hold out for a good one and look after it. Great cars but definitely not for everyone.
Mine just ticked over 50,000 miles today and feels great so far. (In before it blows up tomorrow).
seiben said:
Nice to see another used for competition. Personally I'm glad everyone's scared of owning them - it means we could pick up a perfectly serviceable example for a grand and spend a year thrashing it around sprint events!
I reckon it's done about 250-300 full-bore launches and about 400 track laps since we got it. It's still working very well, despite our best efforts
Certainly your best efforts! I reckon it's done about 250-300 full-bore launches and about 400 track laps since we got it. It's still working very well, despite our best efforts
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