RE: Mazda RX-8: PH Heroes
Discussion
Love these, really enjoyed my PZ, think they handle really well, dare I say one of the very best handling cars I've owned.
The overall best car I've owned was an Evo 8, it was quicker, more practical and safer than the PZ, but the PZ was just as much fun to own, for different reasons.
Tax was a shocker at £505, Petrol costs were comedic, I used to premix too, but to be fair never gave me a mechanical problem in my ownership, just a big dose of 'rotary paranoia'.
I paid £2k for it, and sold it for exactly the same money.
I've had a few cars since and I've always threatened to get another, but I've never took the plunge. Most recently I searched for a few, then bottled it and bought a Mini Cooper instead. I like to live dangerously
The overall best car I've owned was an Evo 8, it was quicker, more practical and safer than the PZ, but the PZ was just as much fun to own, for different reasons.
Tax was a shocker at £505, Petrol costs were comedic, I used to premix too, but to be fair never gave me a mechanical problem in my ownership, just a big dose of 'rotary paranoia'.
I paid £2k for it, and sold it for exactly the same money.
I've had a few cars since and I've always threatened to get another, but I've never took the plunge. Most recently I searched for a few, then bottled it and bought a Mini Cooper instead. I like to live dangerously
Test driver said:
What is the fix for when the engine “floods”?
I’m considering buying one, or a s2000/mr2 turbo/350z.
Crank the engine with foot hard on accelerator (stops fuel supply) for about 10 second periods 3 or four times, easy.I’m considering buying one, or a s2000/mr2 turbo/350z.
In warm summer months the engine will be warm enough not to flood within a matter of less than a minute, in winter a few minutes or so.
Test driver said:
I’m considering buying one, or a s2000/mr2 turbo/350z.
I owned a 350Z for six years and partly at the same time as my RX8. Although I do 'get' the RX8 thing and on the right road it is epic, for me the 350Z is a better drive more of the time than the 8, but then the 8 is generally considerably cheaper.350Zs do tend to suffer more with rust issues from what I can tell.
I've driven a few MR2 Turbos. They are quick, and good fun but to me feel like a much older car and less refined than the 8 or the Z.
Horses for courses, though, I suppose.
Never driven an S2000 so can't comment on that.
Test driver said:
What is the fix for when the engine “floods”?
I’m considering buying one, or a s2000/mr2 turbo/350z.
Normally running the engine for a minute will be ok to turn off after (1st rev limiter light out on the R3). If you do flood then foot to the floor on the accelerator will trigger the fuel cut (clutch to floor as well to take a bit of load off the starter motor) and then crank for 10s. Leave to rest for 30s and then try starting the engine.I’m considering buying one, or a s2000/mr2 turbo/350z.
Just to add on the flooding issue - it’s not like old cars where you could stall them with the choke out and not be able to restart, it’s a problem if you start them up, shut them down and come back later. There is a cold shutdown routine which is supposed to stop it happening but better to avoid starting if you’re not going anywhere.
The RX8's handling was by far and away the biggest surprise I had owning one. Unbelievably easy to drift at low speeds when wet, beautifully balanced at high speeds especially stability at speed over bumpy surfaces.
I'm confident something was not right with the one above you mention.
The negative for me was the fuel consumption. I've owned thirsty cars, really thirsty cars but never besides the R32 golf have I ever used so much fuel for quite so little performance.
Best M135i 40mpg and I swear it was good for more than the quoted 326hp. RX8 was teens for what felt like 100hp
I'm confident something was not right with the one above you mention.
The negative for me was the fuel consumption. I've owned thirsty cars, really thirsty cars but never besides the R32 golf have I ever used so much fuel for quite so little performance.
Best M135i 40mpg and I swear it was good for more than the quoted 326hp. RX8 was teens for what felt like 100hp
sortedcossie said:
I’d very much like to punch whoever wrote that advert ...Ran a ‘fully loaded’ 2007 231 BHP for a while some time ago. I brought it pre-registered, but practically new from the local main dealer for £12,995 (list price with options was about £24K). So even back then, 10 years ago, they could be a real bargain.
I sold it back to the dealer about 3 years later and they gave me £7K. So depreciation of £6K for what was effectively a new car was not bad at all in context ( a different story if list price was paid!).
Over the 3 years (around 30K miles) I had no unscheduled repairs - just a set of tyres, annual servicing and a set of front brake pads. It used a bit of oil, but not that much IIRC and I averaged 20-23MPG - as expected. I once (and only once) managed 28MPG on a tank of fuel - still not sure how I did it. Driving style, quality of petrol - nothing seemed too make a difference!
What I do remember most of all was that joyful engine and gearbox and superb handling. Unlike one of the early contributors here, I found the handling great and grip totally predictable.
I do miss my RX8 - surprisingly practical, suprisingly fun, surprisingly reasonable to run (if you go in with your eyes open). So many non-owners missed the point completely. Yes, the torque was lower, the consumption higher and the engine fussier than some other comparable cars - but live with those things, put the effort in to learn its ways over time - it’s worth it.
Good to see it as PH Hero.
I sold it back to the dealer about 3 years later and they gave me £7K. So depreciation of £6K for what was effectively a new car was not bad at all in context ( a different story if list price was paid!).
Over the 3 years (around 30K miles) I had no unscheduled repairs - just a set of tyres, annual servicing and a set of front brake pads. It used a bit of oil, but not that much IIRC and I averaged 20-23MPG - as expected. I once (and only once) managed 28MPG on a tank of fuel - still not sure how I did it. Driving style, quality of petrol - nothing seemed too make a difference!
What I do remember most of all was that joyful engine and gearbox and superb handling. Unlike one of the early contributors here, I found the handling great and grip totally predictable.
I do miss my RX8 - surprisingly practical, suprisingly fun, surprisingly reasonable to run (if you go in with your eyes open). So many non-owners missed the point completely. Yes, the torque was lower, the consumption higher and the engine fussier than some other comparable cars - but live with those things, put the effort in to learn its ways over time - it’s worth it.
Good to see it as PH Hero.
Edited by edwheels on Wednesday 12th September 23:13
The first time a saw one I thought it looked fantastic, and I really fancied getting one but I couldn't afford it!
By the time they were in budget (early 2005) I was getting a car allowance instead of a company car so had to do business mileage, so an RX8 wasn't going to be a good idea! Ended up with a turbo-diesel - like everyone else.
In 2014 all that changed, but after 9 years of BMWs I just had to have a Z4 Coupe because I had always wanted one of those too!
From what I have read oil consumption isn't that big a problem (I've had 6 cylinder BMWs that use plenty), and if you buy a pre-2006 tax isn't either - although that may have been a factor in their demise post 2006! As it probably was for the S2000 and to a degree the 350Z.
I still like the idea of a Coupe style that has back seats should you need them. But I can't help thinking the Mazda 3 MPS engine may have worked better in an RX8, and an RX8 engine would have been wonderful in an MX5!
I think I'd only ever own one as a track car now, but it's great that Mazda actually built them.
By the time they were in budget (early 2005) I was getting a car allowance instead of a company car so had to do business mileage, so an RX8 wasn't going to be a good idea! Ended up with a turbo-diesel - like everyone else.
In 2014 all that changed, but after 9 years of BMWs I just had to have a Z4 Coupe because I had always wanted one of those too!
From what I have read oil consumption isn't that big a problem (I've had 6 cylinder BMWs that use plenty), and if you buy a pre-2006 tax isn't either - although that may have been a factor in their demise post 2006! As it probably was for the S2000 and to a degree the 350Z.
I still like the idea of a Coupe style that has back seats should you need them. But I can't help thinking the Mazda 3 MPS engine may have worked better in an RX8, and an RX8 engine would have been wonderful in an MX5!
I think I'd only ever own one as a track car now, but it's great that Mazda actually built them.
Mr Tidy said:
The first time a saw one I thought it looked fantastic, and I really fancied getting one but I couldn't afford it!
By the time they were in budget (early 2005) I was getting a car allowance instead of a company car so had to do business mileage, so an RX8 wasn't going to be a good idea! Ended up with a turbo-diesel - like everyone else.
In 2014 all that changed, but after 9 years of BMWs I just had to have a Z4 Coupe because I had always wanted one of those too!
From what I have read oil consumption isn't that big a problem (I've had 6 cylinder BMWs that use plenty), and if you buy a pre-2006 tax isn't either - although that may have been a factor in their demise post 2006! As it probably was for the S2000 and to a degree the 350Z.
I still like the idea of a Coupe style that has back seats should you need them. But I can't help thinking the Mazda 3 MPS engine may have worked better in an RX8, and an RX8 engine would have been wonderful in an MX5!
I think I'd only ever own one as a track car now, but it's great that Mazda actually built them.
The rotary engine is perfect for the RX8. An MPS engine would create a very different car. With the rotary it is small, light and powerful. It is set back behind the front wheels which means it is a mid engined car. This is then coupled with a short ratio gear box that is a joy. If you are someone that doesn’t do a lot of miles every year then it makes a lot of sense. It has a very special feel that you get when you sit in one and drives like a very high end sports car.By the time they were in budget (early 2005) I was getting a car allowance instead of a company car so had to do business mileage, so an RX8 wasn't going to be a good idea! Ended up with a turbo-diesel - like everyone else.
In 2014 all that changed, but after 9 years of BMWs I just had to have a Z4 Coupe because I had always wanted one of those too!
From what I have read oil consumption isn't that big a problem (I've had 6 cylinder BMWs that use plenty), and if you buy a pre-2006 tax isn't either - although that may have been a factor in their demise post 2006! As it probably was for the S2000 and to a degree the 350Z.
I still like the idea of a Coupe style that has back seats should you need them. But I can't help thinking the Mazda 3 MPS engine may have worked better in an RX8, and an RX8 engine would have been wonderful in an MX5!
I think I'd only ever own one as a track car now, but it's great that Mazda actually built them.
Sounds to me like;
- mpg = crap as a daily driver
- handling, cheap price = great as a track car
- practicality = great as a back-up car
I'm planning on getting one as a track and back-up (i.e. when daily driver is in the garage) car. Was planning on getting a R3, but someone above mentioned uncomfortable seats so I might change plans....
- mpg = crap as a daily driver
- handling, cheap price = great as a track car
- practicality = great as a back-up car
I'm planning on getting one as a track and back-up (i.e. when daily driver is in the garage) car. Was planning on getting a R3, but someone above mentioned uncomfortable seats so I might change plans....
I don’t think they’re uncomfortable per se, they’re these Recaros;
https://www.recaro-automotive.com/en/product-areas...
I think the problem is that some people have bottoms a bit too large for them
https://www.recaro-automotive.com/en/product-areas...
I think the problem is that some people have bottoms a bit too large for them
Martin350 said:
Test driver said:
I’m considering buying one, or a s2000/mr2 turbo/350z.
I owned a 350Z for six years and partly at the same time as my RX8. Although I do 'get' the RX8 thing and on the right road it is epic, for me the 350Z is a better drive more of the time than the 8, but then the 8 is generally considerably cheaper.350Zs do tend to suffer more with rust issues from what I can tell.
I've driven a few MR2 Turbos. They are quick, and good fun but to me feel like a much older car and less refined than the 8 or the Z.
Horses for courses, though, I suppose.
Never driven an S2000 so can't comment on that.
Z - depends on what age - the early cars had an engine that felt strangled at the top-end, and given they weigh >1,500kg the early cars never felt as quick as the engine/bhp would suggest. Not driven a later car but they're supposed to be improved in this regard. Gearshift more 'robust' than the other cars too...not as sweet, but then it's a big V6...
S2000 - best powertrain of the lot. RX8 is a little smoother / Z unquestionably torquier, but the S2000's motor is a gem and mated to THE best gearshift in the business. Chassis, with proper geo and some bracing, is a lot better than the reputation. Still an 8/10ths car for me on bumpy roads (no issues on smooth tarmac / track), but replacement dampers (e.g. nitrons) apparently sort that out nicely. Only real criticism is the steering, while beautifully quick, isn't as feelsome as some. Interior is cosy (cramped if you're big), but very driver focused and ergonomically spot-on. Roof makes a real difference in summer - I miss that - but conversely it's not as good a long-range car as the Z / RX8.
RX8 - if you know how to look after the engine it's a bargain - all the handling of the S2000 (probably slightly better), good gearshift, good-but-not-great steering (similar to S2000, again maybe slightly better), plus more practicality. Will cost more to run than the S2000, and probably more, condition-for-condition, than the Z.
We now know that the trouble with the RX-8 was the OE ignition was poor and when there was a misfire it was not clearly evident because it has such a free revving engine, in a piston engine it is fairly obvious when it is one cylinder down, now when the Rotary is misfiring it suffers "bore wash" which is not good as the oil that lubricates the Rotor seals is washed away as well and once the seals wear compression is down and a rebuild is on the cards, now unless you have bought an RX -8 from new or had a compression test on a used car how do you know how it should perform.
Speaking to a well respected Rotary engine tuner about engine failures and he admitted that the majority of engines that they strip for rebuild that have suffered a compression loss it is down to a lack of lubrication, I have known owners that have nearly run them dry because they either can`t be bothered or are not vigilant enough to keep the oil levels correct that is not the cars fault is it?
As I said I have owned 4 now from new and I know how they should perform and there isn`t another car like them get a good one owned by someone who knows them and they are an excellent sports car, apart from the high tax for 2006 on cars but that is down to the government`s Tax system, my 911 because of its age is taxed at less than half of my RX-8 but is the same emission band.
Speaking to a well respected Rotary engine tuner about engine failures and he admitted that the majority of engines that they strip for rebuild that have suffered a compression loss it is down to a lack of lubrication, I have known owners that have nearly run them dry because they either can`t be bothered or are not vigilant enough to keep the oil levels correct that is not the cars fault is it?
As I said I have owned 4 now from new and I know how they should perform and there isn`t another car like them get a good one owned by someone who knows them and they are an excellent sports car, apart from the high tax for 2006 on cars but that is down to the government`s Tax system, my 911 because of its age is taxed at less than half of my RX-8 but is the same emission band.
Edited by MX5Star on Thursday 13th September 10:15
Edited by MX5Star on Thursday 13th September 10:42
The RX8 is now over 15 years old, for the time the power was adequate and I wonder if people who deride it actually know how to drive one?
The intake ports only fully open around 7k so under that it does feel a bit flat, expecting to go quick when put your foot down when tooling around at 3-4k without dropping a couple of gears isn't going to happen.
I remember first seeing the car in X-men then watching top gear and seeing the review and really wanting one, it went round the circuit in the same time as an E46 M3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5FNjyaLfC8
Fast foward a few years and I bought my first one back when tax discs still came with the car, unfortunately I got a complete dog (didn't read up on them first) with hot start issues (had over a dozen owners in a very short amount of time).
I intended to use it over summer then either sell it on or scrap it but it grew on me and ended up getting an engine rebuild and modding it.
After a few years the car was looking worse for wear and so instead of spending lots for a respray and for remedial work I bought a special edition then swapped the engine and made it my own adding most the factory appearance options, imo they look a lot better without a front numberplate.
I don't commute to work by car and so it's a weekend car, the fuel costs (around 20mpg average) doesn't really phase me, the tax on the other hand does.
The intake ports only fully open around 7k so under that it does feel a bit flat, expecting to go quick when put your foot down when tooling around at 3-4k without dropping a couple of gears isn't going to happen.
I remember first seeing the car in X-men then watching top gear and seeing the review and really wanting one, it went round the circuit in the same time as an E46 M3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5FNjyaLfC8
Fast foward a few years and I bought my first one back when tax discs still came with the car, unfortunately I got a complete dog (didn't read up on them first) with hot start issues (had over a dozen owners in a very short amount of time).
I intended to use it over summer then either sell it on or scrap it but it grew on me and ended up getting an engine rebuild and modding it.
After a few years the car was looking worse for wear and so instead of spending lots for a respray and for remedial work I bought a special edition then swapped the engine and made it my own adding most the factory appearance options, imo they look a lot better without a front numberplate.
I don't commute to work by car and so it's a weekend car, the fuel costs (around 20mpg average) doesn't really phase me, the tax on the other hand does.
Edited by untakenname on Thursday 13th September 10:18
As with all cars ,there is good and bad points.
I purchased my RX8 as a track day car and something to tinker with and also to let my son improve his driving skills as his own car has a black box fitted which is frustrating for him to say the least..!
After 12 months of ownership I can honestly say it has been fantastic for us. It has done several track days without fault whilst being ragged like no road car should be.
It handles sublimely and has taken abuse in frosty conditions ,wet conditions and sunny hot conditions whilst on track without so much as a murmur ,so not sure where the bad handling comments come from?
Yes its thirsty for petrol, but, no they don't all use oil, mine uses less than 150 ml during hard track use, even though they are designed to inject sump oil into the engine to lubricate whilst running anyway.
Road tax is dear ,but hey ho its so good at what it does and is fairly comfortable on the road even though its set up for the track for me.
Its not a car for everyone but that's what makes owning one special.
Regards
Rob
I purchased my RX8 as a track day car and something to tinker with and also to let my son improve his driving skills as his own car has a black box fitted which is frustrating for him to say the least..!
After 12 months of ownership I can honestly say it has been fantastic for us. It has done several track days without fault whilst being ragged like no road car should be.
It handles sublimely and has taken abuse in frosty conditions ,wet conditions and sunny hot conditions whilst on track without so much as a murmur ,so not sure where the bad handling comments come from?
Yes its thirsty for petrol, but, no they don't all use oil, mine uses less than 150 ml during hard track use, even though they are designed to inject sump oil into the engine to lubricate whilst running anyway.
Road tax is dear ,but hey ho its so good at what it does and is fairly comfortable on the road even though its set up for the track for me.
Its not a car for everyone but that's what makes owning one special.
Regards
Rob
MX5Star said:
We now know that the trouble with the RX-8 was the OE ignition was poor and when there was a misfire it was not clearly evident because it has such a free revving engine, in a piston engine it is fairly obvious when it is one cylinder down, now when the Rotary is misfiring it suffers "bore wash" which is not good as the oil that lubricates the Rotor seals is washed away as well and once the seals wear compression is down and a rebuild is on the cards, now unless you have bought an RX -8 from new or had a compression test on a used car how do you know how it should perform.
Speaking to a well respected Rotary engine tuner about engine failures and he admitted that the majority of engines that they strip for rebuild that have suffered a compression loss it is down to a lack of lubrication, I have known owners that have nearly run them dry because they either can`t be bothered or are not vigilant enough to keep the oil levels correct that is not the cars fault is it?
As I said I have owned 4 now from new and I know how they should perform and there isn`t another car like them get a good one owned by someone who knows them and they are an excellent sports car, apart from the high tax for 2006 on cars but that is down to the government`s Tax system, my 911 because of its age is taxed at less than half of my RX-8 but is the same emission band.
That's very interesting information - Mazda claimed at the time they'd fixed the tip wear and then it looked like they hadn't.Speaking to a well respected Rotary engine tuner about engine failures and he admitted that the majority of engines that they strip for rebuild that have suffered a compression loss it is down to a lack of lubrication, I have known owners that have nearly run them dry because they either can`t be bothered or are not vigilant enough to keep the oil levels correct that is not the cars fault is it?
As I said I have owned 4 now from new and I know how they should perform and there isn`t another car like them get a good one owned by someone who knows them and they are an excellent sports car, apart from the high tax for 2006 on cars but that is down to the government`s Tax system, my 911 because of its age is taxed at less than half of my RX-8 but is the same emission band.
Edited by MX5Star on Thursday 13th September 10:15
Edited by MX5Star on Thursday 13th September 10:42
The earlier 'rebuild it yourself' post is also interesting - I presume it's all seal wear and the chamber liners don't need any attention?
I've long maintained that anyone used to two-stroke 'bikes wouldn't find the engine at all daunting - there are similarities.
Like Havoc, it's a car I really like. Long may they be unfairly maligned, so that only the cognoscenti may enjoy them!
otolith said:
Just to add on the flooding issue - it’s not like old cars where you could stall them with the choke out and not be able to restart, it’s a problem if you start them up, shut them down and come back later. There is a cold shutdown routine which is supposed to stop it happening but better to avoid starting if you’re not going anywhere.
I have had more grief with piston engines than we ever had in the RX-8. I'm not talking about old "manual choke" carb stuff either, modern EFI cars. Stalled and then will *not* restart etc. It was something that I was always concerned about...but didn't have a single problem with ours. Stalled it a few times but it re-started fine. Ours was an MY06 though which had a bunch of fixes from the earlier cars (better starter, different flash on the ecu).
To be totally honest it's not a good idea for *any* engine to be started, run for 10 seconds and then shut off. It's just that the RX-8 is more susceptible to flooding.
Black S2K said:
That's very interesting information - Mazda claimed at the time they'd fixed the tip wear and then it looked like they hadn't.
The R3 they added an additional lubrication hole, as you say it's obvious that they hadn't fixed the wear. Personally I would have thought they would have been best running a separate oil injection system rather than try and use engine oil. Akin to two-strokes and indeed using two-stroke oil. They would then be able to use "perfect" oil that was designed to be burnt rather than the compromise engine oil. It would also mean a nice neat tank which would be easy to top up and could have a gauge/low warning on it.
On the subject of oil though...for something that was designed to use oil it had the most god awful dipstick and filler. You needed to remove the engine cover and reach right the way over the engine.
Lots of enthusiasts fit a 'SOHN' system which feeds the engine pure 2 stroke from a separate tank, this has the added benefit of then being able to run proper synthetic in the sump giving the bearing far better protection, most also premix putting 2 stroke into the petrol tank to further help lubrication.
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