RE: Mercedes-AMG A35 unveiled with 306hp
Discussion
Oh, yes it will! All 4WD does is persuade people they can drive at any speed regardless of the conditions. They can’t. For 95% of the time 4WD adds weight and pointless cost, dulls the handling and blunts the experience. The other 5% of the time it doesn’t matter. There’s a reason Lotus and most other makers of the best handling cars wouldn’t dream of 4WD.
An M2 competition is going to be so much better than ANYTHING at anywhere near the price, Cayman included (fine car though that is). Forget tracks and special stages, in the real world, unless it’s a tractor or defender 4WD is irrelevant and unnecessary. And it makes an RS3 or A45 look hilariously overpriced. An M140i has a peerless drivetrain and delivers a far superior, richer and SO much nicer sounding experience than any humdrum 4 pot can manage, while RWD is just purer, more satisfying. Like a 2WD 911 is still the best sports car on the planet. And a Nissan is way quicker but, well, a bit flat. I’ve driven both. There’s no comparison as to which is better. Like a Rolex or a Seiko.
An M2 competition is going to be so much better than ANYTHING at anywhere near the price, Cayman included (fine car though that is). Forget tracks and special stages, in the real world, unless it’s a tractor or defender 4WD is irrelevant and unnecessary. And it makes an RS3 or A45 look hilariously overpriced. An M140i has a peerless drivetrain and delivers a far superior, richer and SO much nicer sounding experience than any humdrum 4 pot can manage, while RWD is just purer, more satisfying. Like a 2WD 911 is still the best sports car on the planet. And a Nissan is way quicker but, well, a bit flat. I’ve driven both. There’s no comparison as to which is better. Like a Rolex or a Seiko.
Trust me it makes a big difference in the wet. I remember years ago having some fun with a Celica GT4 in my 200sx, we blasted over a roundabout and I lost traction(rear wheels just lit up)...by the time I got traction the GT4 was gone in the distance.
I love RWD don't get me wrong, but give me 4WD everyday in the wet...especially if I want some fun with other cars.
I love RWD don't get me wrong, but give me 4WD everyday in the wet...especially if I want some fun with other cars.
Edited by cerb4.5lee on Thursday 20th September 22:38
Gone from a TT to an M135i, 4wd in the wet is night and day different, plant foot, car goes, M135i in the wet soon runs out of grip even on part throttle, will wag its tail very easily, it will spin the wheels at pretty much any legal ish speed if you are over aggressive with the throttle.
Which is great if you are feeling like it, pain in the arse if in a bit of a hurry. I just slow down as its still plenty fast enough, you just cant use much of the performance. For a daily, all year round, all weather car 4wd makes a lot of sense, under acceleration it makes little difference whether its wet or dry.
Could go off a roundabout in the TT (250 ish bhp) and just give it full throttle, i know Haldex gets slagged off but its pretty effective and does what it say on the tin.
Which is great if you are feeling like it, pain in the arse if in a bit of a hurry. I just slow down as its still plenty fast enough, you just cant use much of the performance. For a daily, all year round, all weather car 4wd makes a lot of sense, under acceleration it makes little difference whether its wet or dry.
Could go off a roundabout in the TT (250 ish bhp) and just give it full throttle, i know Haldex gets slagged off but its pretty effective and does what it say on the tin.
Well, I had an Integrale back in the day. Utterly, gobsmackingly glorious. But analogue. Like all ‘classics’. And an Alfa SZ of the same vintage will pull pull more Gs in corners. Way more.
What I’m trying to say is that people think tech nowadays is everything. But, a series 1 MX5 or Lotus Elise proves that it isn’t. BMWs next M-lite will be 4WD and 4 cylinder, just because, like Porsche, that’s the direction the industry is going in, for purely economic and environmental reasons.
Ask people to list the top 10 best handling cars and there won’t be many 4WD or FWD. Hardly any. The most rewarding real world on road experiences are RWD and the likes of the Focus RS and Type R look like a car my 7year old would draw. But of course the Max Power generation loves them! The Golf is quite fun but a bit humdrum and the S3 is a golf in gladrags. An RS3 is quite interesting and individual but can’t hold a candle to the M2, BMW1M or forthcoming M2 comp pack. And an A45 is a stupid price hence the A35, which is, as the article said, aimed at Golf R buyers. But the layout and design are frankly silly. I drove the Merc, Golf and S3 and of course bought the M140i. You can pretend that 0-60 and Nurburgring lap times matter, they don’t. All the rivals are as quick, but the BMW is more rewarding, more, almost all of the time. For me it’s the driver’s choice, by a distance. Especially with adaptive suspension and auto box.
What I’m trying to say is that people think tech nowadays is everything. But, a series 1 MX5 or Lotus Elise proves that it isn’t. BMWs next M-lite will be 4WD and 4 cylinder, just because, like Porsche, that’s the direction the industry is going in, for purely economic and environmental reasons.
Ask people to list the top 10 best handling cars and there won’t be many 4WD or FWD. Hardly any. The most rewarding real world on road experiences are RWD and the likes of the Focus RS and Type R look like a car my 7year old would draw. But of course the Max Power generation loves them! The Golf is quite fun but a bit humdrum and the S3 is a golf in gladrags. An RS3 is quite interesting and individual but can’t hold a candle to the M2, BMW1M or forthcoming M2 comp pack. And an A45 is a stupid price hence the A35, which is, as the article said, aimed at Golf R buyers. But the layout and design are frankly silly. I drove the Merc, Golf and S3 and of course bought the M140i. You can pretend that 0-60 and Nurburgring lap times matter, they don’t. All the rivals are as quick, but the BMW is more rewarding, more, almost all of the time. For me it’s the driver’s choice, by a distance. Especially with adaptive suspension and auto box.
wst said:
pimpchez said:
Looks amazing inside and out but as a Powertrain engineer that air path from the airbox to the CAC is laughable in a performance application atleast.
Is the bigger issue the 180 degree bend, or how it's routed right over the top of the hot bits? Or something else?At least it has a charge cooler with a short albeit somewhat compromised routing. No other performance 4-cyl has a water cooled intercooler iirc, apart from the A45 of course. If that turbo is a bit smaller than on the A35, that potentially gives it the best throttle response in its class...
eftiem64 said:
A RWD 3.0 6 cylinder turbo beats a little 2.0 4 cylinder turbo 4WD all day, every day. Unless of course you spend all your spare time on an X-Box.
I've got a LP560-2 Gallardo and this A45 AMG. I can tell you that in the soaking wet the Gallardo struggles to keep up with the little 2Ltr 4WD A class on tight twisty roads as it simply just spins up the rear tyres. Great fun though but could end up rather expensive. But then again I do sometimes spend some spare time on the X-Box.Deep Thought said:
Its not the speed of the gear changes cause issues with moving off in an A45 its that the RPM are low in comfort mode and the big turbo has spun down. Therefore you go to move off and you've to wait until the turbo spins up to make progress.
The smaller turbo on your car will spin up more quickly.
I've no issues at all with the gearbox or the car in Sport, Sport+ or Race mode, i just find Comfort mode a bit "cheek clenching" as the lack of go for that second or so from a standing start is unsettling.
The box can most definitely change up and down gears quicker than i ever could
Fair dos. I do sometimes switch off the start/stop if I want a quick getaway. Sounds like you're unhappy with the car want a swap? I'll take it and a modest cash sum in exchange for mine The smaller turbo on your car will spin up more quickly.
I've no issues at all with the gearbox or the car in Sport, Sport+ or Race mode, i just find Comfort mode a bit "cheek clenching" as the lack of go for that second or so from a standing start is unsettling.
The box can most definitely change up and down gears quicker than i ever could
eftiem64 said:
Oh, yes it will! All 4WD does is persuade people they can drive at any speed regardless of the conditions. They can’t. For 95% of the time 4WD adds weight and pointless cost, dulls the handling and blunts the experience. The other 5% of the time it doesn’t matter. There’s a reason Lotus and most other makers of the best handling cars wouldn’t dream of 4WD.
An M2 competition is going to be so much better than ANYTHING at anywhere near the price, Cayman included (fine car though that is). Forget tracks and special stages, in the real world, unless it’s a tractor or defender 4WD is irrelevant and unnecessary. And it makes an RS3 or A45 look hilariously overpriced. An M140i has a peerless drivetrain and delivers a far superior, richer and SO much nicer sounding experience than any humdrum 4 pot can manage, while RWD is just purer, more satisfying. Like a 2WD 911 is still the best sports car on the planet. And a Nissan is way quicker but, well, a bit flat. I’ve driven both. There’s no comparison as to which is better. Like a Rolex or a Seiko.
An M2 competition is going to be so much better than ANYTHING at anywhere near the price, Cayman included (fine car though that is). Forget tracks and special stages, in the real world, unless it’s a tractor or defender 4WD is irrelevant and unnecessary. And it makes an RS3 or A45 look hilariously overpriced. An M140i has a peerless drivetrain and delivers a far superior, richer and SO much nicer sounding experience than any humdrum 4 pot can manage, while RWD is just purer, more satisfying. Like a 2WD 911 is still the best sports car on the planet. And a Nissan is way quicker but, well, a bit flat. I’ve driven both. There’s no comparison as to which is better. Like a Rolex or a Seiko.
No.
I was chatting to a guy in Mercedes and he said they'd an away day at some race track driving AMGs. He said for the first half the day the C63 ruled the roost over the A45...... then it rained. And the tables were totally turned. C63 couldnt get a look in.
The A45 / RS3 isnt "hilariously over priced" over the M140i, its because they're in a different league altogether. They sit alongside the M2. Your M140i is a rival to this and the S3 in the category below, but in price and in power output.
Dont get me wrong - M140i - great car, and its loss will be mourned, but sorry, its no A45 / RS3 beater. Lets keep perspective.
Oh, and that sound you're hearing inside the car? Pumped in to the car by the Active Sound system fitted, so its mostly artificial. Sorry.
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 21st September 08:50
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 21st September 08:51
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 21st September 08:52
eftiem64 said:
Well, I had an Integrale back in the day. Utterly, gobsmackingly glorious. But analogue. Like all ‘classics’. And an Alfa SZ of the same vintage will pull pull more Gs in corners. Way more.
What I’m trying to say is that people think tech nowadays is everything. But, a series 1 MX5 or Lotus Elise proves that it isn’t. BMWs next M-lite will be 4WD and 4 cylinder, just because, like Porsche, that’s the direction the industry is going in, for purely economic and environmental reasons.
Ask people to list the top 10 best handling cars and there won’t be many 4WD or FWD. Hardly any. The most rewarding real world on road experiences are RWD and the likes of the Focus RS and Type R look like a car my 7year old would draw. But of course the Max Power generation loves them! The Golf is quite fun but a bit humdrum and the S3 is a golf in gladrags. An RS3 is quite interesting and individual but can’t hold a candle to the M2, BMW1M or forthcoming M2 comp pack. And an A45 is a stupid price hence the A35, which is, as the article said, aimed at Golf R buyers. But the layout and design are frankly silly. I drove the Merc, Golf and S3 and of course bought the M140i. You can pretend that 0-60 and Nurburgring lap times matter, they don’t. All the rivals are as quick, but the BMW is more rewarding, more, almost all of the time. For me it’s the driver’s choice, by a distance. Especially with adaptive suspension and auto box.
Ah, now you're confusing rewarding handling with outright ability. Very different things.What I’m trying to say is that people think tech nowadays is everything. But, a series 1 MX5 or Lotus Elise proves that it isn’t. BMWs next M-lite will be 4WD and 4 cylinder, just because, like Porsche, that’s the direction the industry is going in, for purely economic and environmental reasons.
Ask people to list the top 10 best handling cars and there won’t be many 4WD or FWD. Hardly any. The most rewarding real world on road experiences are RWD and the likes of the Focus RS and Type R look like a car my 7year old would draw. But of course the Max Power generation loves them! The Golf is quite fun but a bit humdrum and the S3 is a golf in gladrags. An RS3 is quite interesting and individual but can’t hold a candle to the M2, BMW1M or forthcoming M2 comp pack. And an A45 is a stupid price hence the A35, which is, as the article said, aimed at Golf R buyers. But the layout and design are frankly silly. I drove the Merc, Golf and S3 and of course bought the M140i. You can pretend that 0-60 and Nurburgring lap times matter, they don’t. All the rivals are as quick, but the BMW is more rewarding, more, almost all of the time. For me it’s the driver’s choice, by a distance. Especially with adaptive suspension and auto box.
There is no "hence the A35" because "the A45 is a stupid price". The A45 / M2 / RS3 are pitched against each other in both price and power. The A35 is to rival the S3, the M140i / M135i xDrive. Not sure why you cant grasp that.
Never you mind said:
Bladedancer said:
Gameface said:
Ooh you're such a purist. You must be right in that case. You're one of those driving gods I've heard about aren't you?
RWD. 6 cylinders. Tablet. Got a hat-trick there. So predictable.
So early in the thread too. Deeply impressive.
You say this as if there was anything wrong with liking the classic setup with RWD and straight 6. Also, some people here seem to think that you can only enjoy s car on the very edge. Where does this idiotic notion come from?RWD. 6 cylinders. Tablet. Got a hat-trick there. So predictable.
So early in the thread too. Deeply impressive.
Also pardon me for saying this, but the styling is very fast-and-furious. And it doesn't fit Merc at all. It's like man in his 60s putting on his teenage grandson's clothes in an attempt to be hip and modern. Outcome is predictable and there's no point and no need for it. MB doesn't have to go there.
I bought an A45 AMG Chav spec (aero package same as the one in this thread) for the wife and it is easily head and shoulders above everything else in that sector. Even with the "tablet" stuck the dash.
- sigh* have I said it was a poor car? No, I didn't. I simply pointed out that there's nothing wrong with liking the 6 cylinder setup. But looks like some people just read the text that wasn't there.
I’ve got some experience of rwd fed and 4wd in the fact that over the moors in the rain a bmw couldn’t get the power down and both me in a golf gti and a s3 trounced it, on a straight motorway road the gti loses but keeps with a s3 fairly well but on those moors he was gone and between Whitby and Pickering I lost sight of him and I’d lost sight of the bmw out the rear view! We all met up at Malton! My next car will have 4wd for that real world point to point driving! Plus in winter my mate fits winters to his s3 and been all over in it! He even got up Sutton bank although he was following a Range Rover up there and it was spinning its wheels all the way up but you couldn’t do that in the golf or the bmw
eftiem64 said:
Well, I had an Integrale back in the day. Utterly, gobsmackingly glorious. But analogue. Like all ‘classics’. And an Alfa SZ of the same vintage will pull pull more Gs in corners. Way more.
What I’m trying to say is that people think tech nowadays is everything. But, a series 1 MX5 or Lotus Elise proves that it isn’t. BMWs next M-lite will be 4WD and 4 cylinder, just because, like Porsche, that’s the direction the industry is going in, for purely economic and environmental reasons.
Ask people to list the top 10 best handling cars and there won’t be many 4WD or FWD. Hardly any. The most rewarding real world on road experiences are RWD and the likes of the Focus RS and Type R look like a car my 7year old would draw. But of course the Max Power generation loves them! The Golf is quite fun but a bit humdrum and the S3 is a golf in gladrags. An RS3 is quite interesting and individual but can’t hold a candle to the M2, BMW1M or forthcoming M2 comp pack. And an A45 is a stupid price hence the A35, which is, as the article said, aimed at Golf R buyers. But the layout and design are frankly silly. I drove the Merc, Golf and S3 and of course bought the M140i. You can pretend that 0-60 and Nurburgring lap times matter, they don’t. All the rivals are as quick, but the BMW is more rewarding, more, almost all of the time. For me it’s the driver’s choice, by a distance. Especially with adaptive suspension and auto box.
Any pics of the Delta ?What I’m trying to say is that people think tech nowadays is everything. But, a series 1 MX5 or Lotus Elise proves that it isn’t. BMWs next M-lite will be 4WD and 4 cylinder, just because, like Porsche, that’s the direction the industry is going in, for purely economic and environmental reasons.
Ask people to list the top 10 best handling cars and there won’t be many 4WD or FWD. Hardly any. The most rewarding real world on road experiences are RWD and the likes of the Focus RS and Type R look like a car my 7year old would draw. But of course the Max Power generation loves them! The Golf is quite fun but a bit humdrum and the S3 is a golf in gladrags. An RS3 is quite interesting and individual but can’t hold a candle to the M2, BMW1M or forthcoming M2 comp pack. And an A45 is a stupid price hence the A35, which is, as the article said, aimed at Golf R buyers. But the layout and design are frankly silly. I drove the Merc, Golf and S3 and of course bought the M140i. You can pretend that 0-60 and Nurburgring lap times matter, they don’t. All the rivals are as quick, but the BMW is more rewarding, more, almost all of the time. For me it’s the driver’s choice, by a distance. Especially with adaptive suspension and auto box.
Deep Thought said:
eftiem64 said:
Well, I had an Integrale back in the day. Utterly, gobsmackingly glorious. But analogue. Like all ‘classics’. And an Alfa SZ of the same vintage will pull pull more Gs in corners. Way more.
What I’m trying to say is that people think tech nowadays is everything. But, a series 1 MX5 or Lotus Elise proves that it isn’t. BMWs next M-lite will be 4WD and 4 cylinder, just because, like Porsche, that’s the direction the industry is going in, for purely economic and environmental reasons.
Ask people to list the top 10 best handling cars and there won’t be many 4WD or FWD. Hardly any. The most rewarding real world on road experiences are RWD and the likes of the Focus RS and Type R look like a car my 7year old would draw. But of course the Max Power generation loves them! The Golf is quite fun but a bit humdrum and the S3 is a golf in gladrags. An RS3 is quite interesting and individual but can’t hold a candle to the M2, BMW1M or forthcoming M2 comp pack. And an A45 is a stupid price hence the A35, which is, as the article said, aimed at Golf R buyers. But the layout and design are frankly silly. I drove the Merc, Golf and S3 and of course bought the M140i. You can pretend that 0-60 and Nurburgring lap times matter, they don’t. All the rivals are as quick, but the BMW is more rewarding, more, almost all of the time. For me it’s the driver’s choice, by a distance. Especially with adaptive suspension and auto box.
Ah, now you're confusing rewarding handling with outright ability. Very different things.What I’m trying to say is that people think tech nowadays is everything. But, a series 1 MX5 or Lotus Elise proves that it isn’t. BMWs next M-lite will be 4WD and 4 cylinder, just because, like Porsche, that’s the direction the industry is going in, for purely economic and environmental reasons.
Ask people to list the top 10 best handling cars and there won’t be many 4WD or FWD. Hardly any. The most rewarding real world on road experiences are RWD and the likes of the Focus RS and Type R look like a car my 7year old would draw. But of course the Max Power generation loves them! The Golf is quite fun but a bit humdrum and the S3 is a golf in gladrags. An RS3 is quite interesting and individual but can’t hold a candle to the M2, BMW1M or forthcoming M2 comp pack. And an A45 is a stupid price hence the A35, which is, as the article said, aimed at Golf R buyers. But the layout and design are frankly silly. I drove the Merc, Golf and S3 and of course bought the M140i. You can pretend that 0-60 and Nurburgring lap times matter, they don’t. All the rivals are as quick, but the BMW is more rewarding, more, almost all of the time. For me it’s the driver’s choice, by a distance. Especially with adaptive suspension and auto box.
There is no "hence the A35" because "the A45 is a stupid price". The A45 / M2 / RS3 are pitched against each other in both price and power. The A35 is to rival the S3, the M140i / M135i xDrive. Not sure why you cant grasp that.
Price wise it definitely is more of an S3/Golf R rival but its just so different to any of the others, it is more like a seventies Rally hatch configuration and the only other six cylinder RWD compact hatch I can think of is an AMC Pacer like in Waynes World.
It isnt just about spending given amounts to get more performance and outright grip, it just there in its own niche and none of the others does the saem, depends whether you like that thing, I do like my M135i and could have got something else but it just fitted the criteria.
Also appreciate that sliding it around on a track may be fun but for what I do, not that relevant most of the time.
I think the M135i will become a bit of a cult car, mate of mine has just got a lovely grey one with red interior.
I bet Mercedes sells a lot of number 4 badges when this comes out !
Bladedancer said:
Never you mind said:
Bladedancer said:
Gameface said:
Ooh you're such a purist. You must be right in that case. You're one of those driving gods I've heard about aren't you?
RWD. 6 cylinders. Tablet. Got a hat-trick there. So predictable.
So early in the thread too. Deeply impressive.
You say this as if there was anything wrong with liking the classic setup with RWD and straight 6. Also, some people here seem to think that you can only enjoy s car on the very edge. Where does this idiotic notion come from?RWD. 6 cylinders. Tablet. Got a hat-trick there. So predictable.
So early in the thread too. Deeply impressive.
Also pardon me for saying this, but the styling is very fast-and-furious. And it doesn't fit Merc at all. It's like man in his 60s putting on his teenage grandson's clothes in an attempt to be hip and modern. Outcome is predictable and there's no point and no need for it. MB doesn't have to go there.
I bought an A45 AMG Chav spec (aero package same as the one in this thread) for the wife and it is easily head and shoulders above everything else in that sector. Even with the "tablet" stuck the dash.
- sigh* have I said it was a poor car? No, I didn't. I simply pointed out that there's nothing wrong with liking the 6 cylinder setup. But looks like some people just read the text that wasn't there.
Well yes I have. I didn't blindly part with cash for the A45. I checked out others and drove others before making a final decision, though the wife really liked it and as I bought it for her she had the last say. Fortunately she has good choice
Deep Thought said:
Oh, and that sound you're hearing inside the car? Pumped in to the car by the Active Sound system fitted, so its mostly artificial. Sorry.
Fair point, but it actually sounds better from the outside, IMOhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyMIzjKNrBo
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff