RE: Toyota Supra prototype: Driven
Discussion
^ While teasing us for years with the fabulous looking FT1 that was ripe for the time it was introduced, and even now giving us a pathetic crappy wrapped GT86 a like that still isn’t here and expecting us to be eating out of the palms of their hands for this lukewarm offering,
I don’t think so, I’m bored to death of the whole saga and eventually they have produced a car I don’t even want. Did I mention a touch of disappointment!! We’ll see how well it sells.
I don’t think so, I’m bored to death of the whole saga and eventually they have produced a car I don’t even want. Did I mention a touch of disappointment!! We’ll see how well it sells.
j_s14a said:
" At the time it was pretty much a massively overweight retirees coupe"
Perhaps the UK market MK3, certainly not the MK4, which outperformed the Supercars of its day, and held a stopping distance record for around a decade, which was only just beaten by the Porsche Carrera GT!
Did it? The c300bhp Supra outperformed the 400bhp Ferrari 360? And the c500bhp 550? And the c600bhp Murciélago? Perhaps the UK market MK3, certainly not the MK4, which outperformed the Supercars of its day, and held a stopping distance record for around a decade, which was only just beaten by the Porsche Carrera GT!
If it's as good as Evo says it is https://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/toyota-supra/21735/ne...
it will be a welcome competitor it this sector which has been Porsche's own for too long.
it will be a welcome competitor it this sector which has been Porsche's own for too long.
All said and done, it looks like it’ll be a great fun rear wheel drive car at a decent price and something any petrolhead should be happy about.
My personal disappointments are that it doesn’t offer us Supra enthusiasts a true Supra successor. It’s not a GT car and its not cutting edge upmarket taking it to the big guns. No-one has shown the rear seats yet and it really doesn’t look like there will be anything at all there in the way of legroom.
I actually wish them every success with it, it looks better in the evo pics as good as a camo wrapped example can look, I’m sure it’ll be well received, it sounds like its retained a nicely fluid and balanced chassis which are all good things. I do wish they wouldn’t call it Supra but I won’t bleat anymore about it, we’ll see how it emerges when its properly shown. It’s been a frustrating and protracted affair. The FT1 was stunning and I was right there for one. If this is a roaring success it will only encourage Toyota to invest further in the sports car market.
I’d love to see from Toyota;
A CH-R GT4 with a 2.0 Turbo 4x4 performance offering, it’s a very good looking car.
A decent engined Hilux to restore its supremacy in the sector
An Amazon Landcruiser return to form as the previous incarnation had a horrid design and interior look.
It would also be nice to see a return of the Toyota Sera doors somewhere too which were massively practical as well as looking great.
My personal disappointments are that it doesn’t offer us Supra enthusiasts a true Supra successor. It’s not a GT car and its not cutting edge upmarket taking it to the big guns. No-one has shown the rear seats yet and it really doesn’t look like there will be anything at all there in the way of legroom.
I actually wish them every success with it, it looks better in the evo pics as good as a camo wrapped example can look, I’m sure it’ll be well received, it sounds like its retained a nicely fluid and balanced chassis which are all good things. I do wish they wouldn’t call it Supra but I won’t bleat anymore about it, we’ll see how it emerges when its properly shown. It’s been a frustrating and protracted affair. The FT1 was stunning and I was right there for one. If this is a roaring success it will only encourage Toyota to invest further in the sports car market.
I’d love to see from Toyota;
A CH-R GT4 with a 2.0 Turbo 4x4 performance offering, it’s a very good looking car.
A decent engined Hilux to restore its supremacy in the sector
An Amazon Landcruiser return to form as the previous incarnation had a horrid design and interior look.
It would also be nice to see a return of the Toyota Sera doors somewhere too which were massively practical as well as looking great.
Ares said:
j_s14a said:
" At the time it was pretty much a massively overweight retirees coupe"
Perhaps the UK market MK3, certainly not the MK4, which outperformed the Supercars of its day, and held a stopping distance record for around a decade, which was only just beaten by the Porsche Carrera GT!
Did it? The c300bhp Supra outperformed the 400bhp Ferrari 360? And the c500bhp 550? And the c600bhp Murciélago? Perhaps the UK market MK3, certainly not the MK4, which outperformed the Supercars of its day, and held a stopping distance record for around a decade, which was only just beaten by the Porsche Carrera GT!
Besides its not a super car beater as such but very very close in its day and it was fighting fire with fire re the over weight retirees coupe comment which was pretty provocative!
Ares said:
Did it? The c300bhp Supra outperformed the 400bhp Ferrari 360? And the c500bhp 550? And the c600bhp Murciélago?
Ferrari 360 was launched in 2000, the 550 in 1996. The MK4 Supora came out in 1993. It was faster than the Ferrari 348, and was in the same ballpark as the 355. However, people quickly discovered the monstrous transformation available to the Supra with a few choice, relatively inexpensive modifications, now known as BPU (full decat, restrictor ring, spark plugs) in Supra circles. 
Scootersp said:
Ares said:
j_s14a said:
" At the time it was pretty much a massively overweight retirees coupe"
Perhaps the UK market MK3, certainly not the MK4, which outperformed the Supercars of its day, and held a stopping distance record for around a decade, which was only just beaten by the Porsche Carrera GT!
Did it? The c300bhp Supra outperformed the 400bhp Ferrari 360? And the c500bhp 550? And the c600bhp Murciélago? Perhaps the UK market MK3, certainly not the MK4, which outperformed the Supercars of its day, and held a stopping distance record for around a decade, which was only just beaten by the Porsche Carrera GT!
Besides its not a super car beater as such but very very close in its day and it was fighting fire with fire re the over weight retirees coupe comment which was pretty provocative!
j_s14a said:
Ares said:
Did it? The c300bhp Supra outperformed the 400bhp Ferrari 360? And the c500bhp 550? And the c600bhp Murciélago?
Ferrari 360 was launched in 2000, the 550 in 1996. The MK4 Supora came out in 1993. It was faster than the Ferrari 348, and was in the same ballpark as the 355. However, people quickly discovered the monstrous transformation available to the Supra with a few choice, relatively inexpensive modifications, now known as BPU (full decat, restrictor ring, spark plugs) in Supra circles. turbobungle said:
If they do make one with a manual 'box as suggested, I'll have one to sit next to the mkiv in the garage. Does anyone know if it is a 2+2 or a 2 seater?
Just a 2-seater apparently.Toyota seemingly decided that nobody wanted another MkIV, and so the MkV is no longer to be a GT car but instead something called a "pure sports car".
Ares said:
j_s14a said:
" At the time it was pretty much a massively overweight retirees coupe"
Perhaps the UK market MK3, certainly not the MK4, which outperformed the Supercars of its day, and held a stopping distance record for around a decade, which was only just beaten by the Porsche Carrera GT!
Did it? The c300bhp Supra outperformed the 400bhp Ferrari 360? And the c500bhp 550? And the c600bhp Murciélago? Perhaps the UK market MK3, certainly not the MK4, which outperformed the Supercars of its day, and held a stopping distance record for around a decade, which was only just beaten by the Porsche Carrera GT!
Not sure I'd bet against the Supra beating a 348 or a Diablo round the 'Ring....
paul_k said:
Been waiting for the replacement since I sold my MK IV back in 2004.
Been daily driving for 9 years in an R35 GTR now and came up against a m140 at the lights. So decided to pull away slowly up to about 10 mph to give it a chance then floor it. I am still amazed that the damn thing was only half a car length behind me well into 3rd gear.
The torque to weight of the new Supra is actually slightly better than the GTR and max torque is much lower than 3500RPM so this engine now has my respect.
3rd gear in a GTR tops out at 93 mph, so a 10-90 mph race isn't really enough for 485 horsepower to show much of a difference over a 340 horsepower. car that weighs 200 kilos less. Been daily driving for 9 years in an R35 GTR now and came up against a m140 at the lights. So decided to pull away slowly up to about 10 mph to give it a chance then floor it. I am still amazed that the damn thing was only half a car length behind me well into 3rd gear.
The torque to weight of the new Supra is actually slightly better than the GTR and max torque is much lower than 3500RPM so this engine now has my respect.
But the GTR is pushing 10 years old, the new 2018/2019 Supra with all its hype will suffer a similar 'surprise' from 250-300 HP hatchbacks, especially against 4WD versions which would leave it for dead from a 1st gear pull.
turbobungle said:
Ares said:
j_s14a said:
" At the time it was pretty much a massively overweight retirees coupe"
Perhaps the UK market MK3, certainly not the MK4, which outperformed the Supercars of its day, and held a stopping distance record for around a decade, which was only just beaten by the Porsche Carrera GT!
Did it? The c300bhp Supra outperformed the 400bhp Ferrari 360? And the c500bhp 550? And the c600bhp Murciélago? Perhaps the UK market MK3, certainly not the MK4, which outperformed the Supercars of its day, and held a stopping distance record for around a decade, which was only just beaten by the Porsche Carrera GT!
Not sure I'd bet against the Supra beating a 348 or a Diablo round the 'Ring....
Ares said:
I'm a great fan of the Supra, but to say it outperformed the supercars of its day are well wide of the mark.
1.15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MgSA1toqHM
Scootersp said:
Ares said:
I'm a great fan of the Supra, but to say it outperformed the supercars of its day are well wide of the mark.
1.15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MgSA1toqHM
I appreciate you aren't going to back down fair enough he does say 'some' supercars.....
Another poster said it out performed them (is that all or some whatever it doesn't matter) I'm just pointing out at the time it was a bigger deal/level than this one seems to be and that the earlier comment made (something about old persons GT etc) was harsh/unjustified.
Another poster said it out performed them (is that all or some whatever it doesn't matter) I'm just pointing out at the time it was a bigger deal/level than this one seems to be and that the earlier comment made (something about old persons GT etc) was harsh/unjustified.
I guess the problem with cheap power for all, is that a giant-slayer just isn't possible any more.
Of course it makes sense that a thumping big turbo straight six could take the fight to the big (N/A) boys back in the day.
But when all the big boys are now also turbocharged, how do you slay them for half the price? What's the next trick?
You can mourn the fact that the new Supra isn't faster than a 488 for £50k, or you can rejoice in the fact that everyone and their granny now gets a 300bhp hatchback simply by walking into a VW showroom and playing eeny meeny miny moe. That's pretty super. And when everything is super, nothing will be, so said a famous philosopher. Or was it that kid from The Incredibles? Anyway...
Having had a similar power to weight in the past, I really think it's just about the sweet spot for a properly fast, fun road car. While everyone on track will always crave more power, it certainly isn't particularly desirable on the road. 350-400bhpish, turbo-dollops of torque and under 1500kg is plenty thankyouverymuch. After that, it's all about how it's delivered, whether the chassis can put it down, and how it makes you feel, and the journos seem to be impressed so far.
If this arrives with a manual box (or, you know, even a really good ZF8 mapping) and not too much electrickery interference, I think it's a great recipe for a £50k car.
I can't see a true giant-killer coming again ever, unless it's a total technology change-up. Perhaps a cheaper, lighter version of the new Tesla Roadster? That's going to be fast!
Of course it makes sense that a thumping big turbo straight six could take the fight to the big (N/A) boys back in the day.
But when all the big boys are now also turbocharged, how do you slay them for half the price? What's the next trick?
You can mourn the fact that the new Supra isn't faster than a 488 for £50k, or you can rejoice in the fact that everyone and their granny now gets a 300bhp hatchback simply by walking into a VW showroom and playing eeny meeny miny moe. That's pretty super. And when everything is super, nothing will be, so said a famous philosopher. Or was it that kid from The Incredibles? Anyway...
Having had a similar power to weight in the past, I really think it's just about the sweet spot for a properly fast, fun road car. While everyone on track will always crave more power, it certainly isn't particularly desirable on the road. 350-400bhpish, turbo-dollops of torque and under 1500kg is plenty thankyouverymuch. After that, it's all about how it's delivered, whether the chassis can put it down, and how it makes you feel, and the journos seem to be impressed so far.
If this arrives with a manual box (or, you know, even a really good ZF8 mapping) and not too much electrickery interference, I think it's a great recipe for a £50k car.
I can't see a true giant-killer coming again ever, unless it's a total technology change-up. Perhaps a cheaper, lighter version of the new Tesla Roadster? That's going to be fast!
Edited by TartanPaint on Wednesday 26th September 13:29
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