Smart motorway penalty

[coldel]

Toltec said:

speedking31 said:

WinstonWolf said:

But he followed the signage as displayed correctly. As you well know, later signage supersedes the earlier message making it redundant.

No. He pulled into the lane before he reached the sign saying it was open. Like accelerating in a 30 before you reach the NSL.

By the same logic you should be able to exit the lane up to and including just prior to the gantry to allow for it changing on approach.

Yes the OP was pushing his luck, but fundamentally this is poor design at fault.

If you stay left and out the lane until you pass a gantry that says otherwise, he would have been fine so technically there is no problem with it. It was certainly a bit of pushing your luck and a little bit of losing your head for a minute - replaying back its clear that the tunnel is closed there is signage workers everything there that says stay left, surely all of that should mean stay left, even if seeing a sign way down the road saying something else caution is certainly the name of the game here which 99% of the traffic seemed to comply with.

I guess OP thought hey I can jump the traffic here, before thinking, is this tunnel really going to be open. To the rule book the gantry on the right past the lane separation can say whatever it likes as until you pass it you shouldnt act on it - that said can totally see where the temptation was to take pre-emptive action.

[speedking31]

Toltec said:

By the same logic you should be able to exit the lane up to and including just prior to the gantry to allow for it changing on approach.

Yes the OP was pushing his luck, but fundamentally this is poor design at fault.

If you're driving along the motorway and three red X's come up, where' your escape route? You have to stop.

[Hilts]

TooMany2cvs said:

Even if he'd been a bit tardy, he could have reversed a few car lengths back to the start of the divider.

.

Reversing back up a motorway lane that two cars have just driven down?

Does that sound like a good idea?

[TooMany2cvs]

Hilts said:

Reversing back up a motorway lane that two cars have just driven down?

A closed lane, let's not forget.

And, no, it doesn't sound like a good idea. But we're not starting from a position of strength in that department, are we?

[Hilts]

TooMany2cvs said:

Hilts said:

Reversing back up a motorway lane that two cars have just driven down?

A closed lane, let's not forget.

And, no, it doesn't sound like a good idea. But we're not starting from a position of strength in that department, are we?

No-one's forgetting it's closed, apart from maybe the OP.

It's not a good idea, not at all.

You could easily have said he could have stabbed himself in the temple with a pencil from his shirt pocket.

Both equally bad.

[Metallfan]

imdeman87 said:

Quite simple really, surely?

I blame the lovely Google Maps lady - 'take the right 2 lanes'.

OP, if you do get a penalty then take it on the chin and move on.

This is my intention.

[TooMany2cvs]

Hilts said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Hilts said:

Reversing back up a motorway lane that two cars have just driven down?

A closed lane, let's not forget.

And, no, it doesn't sound like a good idea. But we're not starting from a position of strength in that department, are we?

No-one's forgetting it's closed, apart from maybe the OP.

It's not a good idea, not at all.

You could easily have said he could have stabbed himself in the temple with a pencil from his shirt pocket.

Both equally bad.

'course, he does end up doing exactly that... the reversing, not the pencil. Just a chunk further down, when the closure becomes utterly undeniable...

[Ian Geary]

This is one of those threads that makes me think I should really get a dash cam.

No-one would believe the events as described without the video (though it seems some people are having trouble believing them anyway)

[trackdemon]

Ian Geary said:

This is one of those threads that makes me think I should really get a dash cam.

No-one would believe the events as described without the video (though it seems some people are having trouble believing them anyway)

For some people being correct on the internet is far more important than facts or other folks opinions.

[BiggestVern]

Sorry, just seen this, are you sure you are going to get a penalty? Most people actually caught going under a red 'x' have had a warning letter and no more unless there was some other factors involved.

From your description I can't quite see how the gantries went from a speed setting to a red 'x' in one jump, they are designed to count down speeds then show a lane divert before the red 'x' appears. Your dashcam footage should be enough to counter any problems.

You said that the two right hand lanes had been showing res 'x's then the next gantry showed speeds, this should not happen, I wonder if you crossed from gantries set by Eastern Region into gantries set by DRC and someone was a bit late with the settings.

Obviously I'm not allowed to comment officially for Highways England but a letter or a call to the Customer Contact Centre In Birmingham may be worth while if you are worried about the outcome.

[Marcellus]

BiggestVern said:

Sorry, just seen this, are you sure you are going to get a penalty? Most people actually caught going under a red 'x' have had a warning letter and no more unless there was some other factors involved.

From your description I can't quite see how the gantries went from a speed setting to a red 'x' in one jump, they are designed to count down speeds then show a lane divert before the red 'x' appears. Your dashcam footage should be enough to counter any problems.

You said that the two right hand lanes had been showing res 'x's then the next gantry showed speeds, this should not happen, I wonder if you crossed from gantries set by Eastern Region into gantries set by DRC and someone was a bit late with the settings.

Obviously I'm not allowed to comment officially for Highways England but a letter or a call to the Customer Contact Centre In Birmingham may be worth while if you are worried about the outcome.

errrrrm did you actually bother looking at the youtube video covering the lead up and actual issue?

[ashleyman]

Marcellus said:

BiggestVern said:

Sorry, just seen this, are you sure you are going to get a penalty? Most people actually caught going under a red 'x' have had a warning letter and no more unless there was some other factors involved.

From your description I can't quite see how the gantries went from a speed setting to a red 'x' in one jump, they are designed to count down speeds then show a lane divert before the red 'x' appears. Your dashcam footage should be enough to counter any problems.

You said that the two right hand lanes had been showing res 'x's then the next gantry showed speeds, this should not happen, I wonder if you crossed from gantries set by Eastern Region into gantries set by DRC and someone was a bit late with the settings.

Obviously I'm not allowed to comment officially for Highways England but a letter or a call to the Customer Contact Centre In Birmingham may be worth while if you are worried about the outcome.

errrrrm did you actually bother looking at the youtube video covering the lead up and actual issue?

Yeah. Come on!! No wonder our Highways are so badly run.

[Metallfan]

BiggestVern said:

Sorry, just seen this, are you sure you are going to get a penalty? Most people actually caught going under a red 'x' have had a warning letter and no more unless there was some other factors involved.

From your description I can't quite see how the gantries went from a speed setting to a red 'x' in one jump, they are designed to count down speeds then show a lane divert before the red 'x' appears. Your dashcam footage should be enough to counter any problems.

You said that the two right hand lanes had been showing res 'x's then the next gantry showed speeds, this should not happen, I wonder if you crossed from gantries set by Eastern Region into gantries set by DRC and someone was a bit late with the settings.

Obviously I'm not allowed to comment officially for Highways England but a letter or a call to the Customer Contact Centre In Birmingham may be worth while if you are worried about the outcome.

Thanks for the input. I have already emailed Highway England. Also was told that I'd get points by a very rude traffic officer who attended to me.

And yes, the video shows it all.

[SmoothCriminal]

Surely the lane is only open from the gantry the sign is set at.

The op passed a red x and then moved into the lanes that were closed.

Whether the gantry showed it open or not the op entered a closed lane.

If this is not correct then the logic will be when it's set at 50 the police can do you before the gantry for speeding.

[BiggestVern]

Metallfan said:

BiggestVern said:

Sorry, just seen this, are you sure you are going to get a penalty? Most people actually caught going under a red 'x' have had a warning letter and no more unless there was some other factors involved.

From your description I can't quite see how the gantries went from a speed setting to a red 'x' in one jump, they are designed to count down speeds then show a lane divert before the red 'x' appears. Your dashcam footage should be enough to counter any problems.

You said that the two right hand lanes had been showing res 'x's then the next gantry showed speeds, this should not happen, I wonder if you crossed from gantries set by Eastern Region into gantries set by DRC and someone was a bit late with the settings.

Obviously I'm not allowed to comment officially for Highways England but a letter or a call to the Customer Contact Centre In Birmingham may be worth while if you are worried about the outcome.

Thanks for the input. I have already emailed Highway England. Also was told that I'd get points by a very rude traffic officer who attended to me.

And yes, the video shows it all.

Sorry but I was trying to view this on a very slow work pc that lacked enough memory to show the video without buffering the whole time. The only way you can get points is if it is caught on a red 'x' compliance camera or reported by a police officer. Traffic Officer Vehicles (TOV's) have CCTV but the footage has to be sent to the police to deal with any actual offence, they may not take it any further. Again I say you have mitigating circumstances.

[BiggestVern]

ashleyman said:

Yeah. Come on!! No wonder our Highways are so badly run.

Thanks for that. The majority are trying to do the right thing whilst working with often broken or malfunctioning equipment and with staff numbers often 50% below the required level.

If you want to see why the roads in such a state, try looking at the millions of pounds being siphoned off by contractors like the now defunct Carillion who lined the director's pockets with money that was supposed to be spent on maintenance and upgrades.

[jfire]

SmoothCriminal said:

Surely the lane is only open from the gantry the sign is set at.

The op passed a red x and then moved into the lanes that were closed.

Whether the gantry showed it open or not the op entered a closed lane.

If this is not correct then the logic will be when it's set at 50 the police can do you before the gantry for speeding.

What about when it changes behind you? The previous sign may well also have shown the lane to be open.

[Marcellus]

Let's think this one through a moment..... you're driving through a lovely quiet village past a school with a posted speed limit of 30, in the distance you can see the NSL sign therefore is the speed limit where you are 30 or 60?

[IanCress]

Marcellus said:

Let's think this one through a moment..... you're driving through a lovely quiet village past a school with a posted speed limit of 30, in the distance you can see the NSL sign therefore is the speed limit where you are 30 or 60?

But if the rule is "you must not drive under a red X", then your only option is to change lanes before you get to the sign. You HAVE to react before you have passed the sign.

It's not the same as an increase in speed limit, where the opposite applies - you must only increase speed once you have passed the sign.

[speedking31]

It is the same as a reduction of speed limit, where the same applies - you must decrease speed before you have passed the sign.