Smart motorway penalty
Discussion
TooMany2cvs said:
Just five seconds before the OP started to change lane, he passed...
You mean 15 seconds later? That is an age on a motorway 
Personally I doubt I would have gone for it, I suspect the other driver doing so maybe swayed his decision, while it was possible the Tunnel Closed could have changed just after he passed it and the lane had re-opened you would be open to what happened to the OP.
You are right in that the tunnel signs should have been a red X ideally, but without knowing how long the Tunnel Closed and the preceding lane close signs had been up it is hard to tell if there was tail end traffic that needed to be allowed through to stop panic lane changes.
Toltec said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Just five seconds before the OP started to change lane, he passed...
You mean 15 seconds later? That is an age on a motorway Personally I doubt I would have gone for it, I suspect the other driver doing so maybe swayed his decision, while it was possible the Tunnel Closed could have changed just after he passed it and the lane had re-opened you would be open to what happened to the OP.
You are right in that the tunnel signs should have been a red X ideally, but without knowing how long the Tunnel Closed and the preceding lane close signs had been up it is hard to tell if there was tail end traffic that needed to be allowed through to stop panic lane changes.
Toltec said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Just five seconds before the OP started to change lane, he passed...
You mean 15 seconds later?Pica-Pica said:
How many times do we have to say..This is NOT a motorway!!!
You'd think the green gantry signs would be a clue, wouldn't you?TooMany2cvs said:
Just five seconds before the OP started to change lane, he passed...
Doesn't leave a lot of room for doubt, does it?
(The 5 going past on the right is the one he blithely follows down the closed tunnel, btw.)
And yet when he got closer the signs indicated it was open... Doesn't leave a lot of room for doubt, does it?
(The 5 going past on the right is the one he blithely follows down the closed tunnel, btw.)
trackdemon said:
Why should he have stayed in lane?
Yes there was an opportunity to change lanes, because the gentry showed a speed limit, indicating the lane was open. Quite simple really, surely?
But the opportunity to change lanes arises when you go beyond the gantry sign - not before it. So in OP's case, you see the speed limit sign ahead which shows that L3 and L4 are open, you wait (whilst you're in L1/L2) until you go past that gantry sign, at which point the lanes have already split so you can't go into L3/L4 (despite what the gantry sign suggests).Yes there was an opportunity to change lanes, because the gentry showed a speed limit, indicating the lane was open. Quite simple really, surely?
Quite simple really, surely?
I blame the lovely Google Maps lady - 'take the right 2 lanes'.
OP, if you do get a penalty then take it on the chin and move on.
WinstonWolf said:
And yet when he got closer the signs indicated it was open...
Yes, one sign. Which he decided must be correct even though it went against a rather large number that said it definitely wasn't open, including two stationary roadwork vehicles. Then, when it changed at an inconvenient but savable moment, he thought he'd change it anyway.TooMany2cvs said:
WinstonWolf said:
And yet when he got closer the signs indicated it was open...
Yes, one sign. Which he decided must be correct even though it went against a rather large number that said it definitely wasn't open, including two stationary roadwork vehicles. Then, when it changed at an inconvenient but savable moment, he thought he'd change it anyway.WinstonWolf said:
But he followed the signage as displayed correctly. As you well know, later signage supersedes the earlier message making it redundant.
Plus both signs could have been perfectly correct - maybe the tunnel WAS closed when he passed the first sign and opened in the following seconds? Not all traffic travels at the same speed and not all gantry messages are not subject to change in the time between you reading them and reaching what they're referring to...TooMany2cvs said:
WinstonWolf said:
And yet when he got closer the signs indicated it was open...
Yes, one sign. Which he decided must be correct even though it went against a rather large number that said it definitely wasn't open, including two stationary roadwork vehicles. Then, when it changed at an inconvenient but savable moment, he thought he'd change it anyway.Also the roadwork vehicles could have been packing up for the night hence the lanes opening up.
TooMany2cvs said:
Tony33 said:
...and then the next one says End...
Which one said "End"? I think I must have missed that on the video.Tony33 said:
was describing a similar circumstance. Normally you assume the most recent gantry provides the most up to date info (in this case the tunnel is now open) as in my example you don't somehow assume the End must be wrong because of the previous signs. You believe the situation ahead has now cleared.
Great. So we're agreed there was no "END".Nor had the OP reached the fixed, and very definite, point that the signage he had passed scant seconds previously explicitly described as the cause.
Even then... He had ample opportunity to react after the gantry changed to informing him of the closure. Not that he needed it, because - as has been pointed out - that gantry didn't apply until he passed it, anyway, just as a speed limit change sign doesn't.
Pica-Pica said:
Toltec said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Just five seconds before the OP started to change lane, he passed...
You mean 15 seconds later? That is an age on a dual carriagewayPersonally I doubt I would have gone for it, I suspect the other driver doing so maybe swayed his decision, while it was possible the Tunnel Closed could have changed just after he passed it and the lane had re-opened you would be open to what happened to the OP.
You are right in that the tunnel signs should have been a red X ideally, but without knowing how long the Tunnel Closed and the preceding lane close signs had been up it is hard to tell if there was tail end traffic that needed to be allowed through to stop panic lane changes.
Tony33 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Tony33 said:
...and then the next one says End...
Which one said "End"? I think I must have missed that on the video.Hmmm, yes making the call from the view of a comfy chair looking at YT is easier but I think you will struggle to overturn any charge based on that.
There is a lot of signage saying the tunnel is closed, workers in the road etc. all the other traffic stayed left aside from you two and as someone else said I wonder if that influenced your driving. Ultimately you changed lanes around I would say at least 100 metres before you got to the gantry - they could easily argue that you obey gantry signs until you 'pass' one that says otherwise rather than looking down the road and changing your driving accordingly and would expect any challenge to any ticket to come back like that.
There is a lot of signage saying the tunnel is closed, workers in the road etc. all the other traffic stayed left aside from you two and as someone else said I wonder if that influenced your driving. Ultimately you changed lanes around I would say at least 100 metres before you got to the gantry - they could easily argue that you obey gantry signs until you 'pass' one that says otherwise rather than looking down the road and changing your driving accordingly and would expect any challenge to any ticket to come back like that.
speedking31 said:
WinstonWolf said:
But he followed the signage as displayed correctly. As you well know, later signage supersedes the earlier message making it redundant.
No. He pulled into the lane before he reached the sign saying it was open. Like accelerating in a 30 before you reach the NSL.Yes the OP was pushing his luck, but fundamentally this is poor design at fault.
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