Twin plate clutch
Discussion
Am enjoying the benefits of new twin plate clutch after the original gave up the ghost at a very respectable 66k. Feel is totally different. No more popeye legs required to change gear it is that different its like there is no clutch at all. One thing i wasnt expecting was the noise change when you start up. Its a much faster and lighter sound on the starter, im guessing thats to do with the lightened flywheel just sounds a bit weird at first!
Havnt had a chance to take it on a long run yet but it does feel fresher all round, although that might be just the fact the old clutch was so heavy as it was on the way out. Had a new window regulator and a couple of o2 sensors needed replacing too plus a rattling heatshield on the exhaust so a few niggly jobs all sorted.
Just got it back with re-jigged suspension geometry & twin plate clutch set up. Just come back from a quick spin with roof down and a huge stupid grin on my face. It’s the mutts nuts. Low speed manoeuvrability dramatically improved. Throttle response faster and gear changes (sportshift 2010 VMV8 roadster) slicker. Had the exhaust package done a couple of years ago by Bamford Rose and in my opinion the car is now perfect. Well worth the money. Cheers Mike.
Birdbrain said:
Just got it back with re-jigged suspension geometry & twin plate clutch set up. Just come back from a quick spin with roof down and a huge stupid grin on my face. It’s the mutts nuts. Low speed manoeuvrability dramatically improved. Throttle response faster and gear changes (sportshift 2010 VMV8 roadster) slicker. Had the exhaust package done a couple of years ago by Bamford Rose and in my opinion the car is now perfect. Well worth the money. Cheers Mike.
The only regret owners have when they have all this work done is why they didn't do it sooner 
Not wanting to put a dampener on this thread but after conversion my SS V8VS did suffer from quite pronounced ‘Gear Chatter’ which came in the form of a ‘grinding noise’, akin to marbles in a can. It was explained to me that this can occur on twinplate clutches & is caused by the propshaft resonating in the Torque Tube. For me it occurred under light load (Approx 2000 rpm) only when the engine was warm.
I understand from Rich at Redpants that this can be reduced by changing to a slightly thicker gear oil). Interested to hear if anyone else has experienced this on manual or SS, V8 or V12?
I understand from Rich at Redpants that this can be reduced by changing to a slightly thicker gear oil). Interested to hear if anyone else has experienced this on manual or SS, V8 or V12?
HBradley said:
Not wanting to put a dampener on this thread but after conversion my SS V8VS did suffer from quite pronounced ‘Gear Chatter’ which came in the form of a ‘grinding noise’, akin to marbles in a can. It was explained to me that this can occur on twinplate clutches & is caused by the propshaft resonating in the Torque Tube. For me it occurred under light load (Approx 2000 rpm) only when the engine was warm.
I understand from Rich at Redpants that this can be reduced by changing to a slightly thicker gear oil). Interested to hear if anyone else has experienced this on manual or SS, V8 or V12?
Interesting. 17MY V8 Vantage S Manual with regular OEM single plate clutch over here and my only (slight) complaint is the relatively loud "grinding transmission noise" when pulling away (less so) and especially noticeable after shifting down from third to second gear before corners and then re-engaging the clutch (more so). My main dealer made up a sound file and sent it to AML. The answer was it is the propshaft bearing and the problem is known and being watched. No solution so far as there are too few complaints (at least that´s what I was told).I understand from Rich at Redpants that this can be reduced by changing to a slightly thicker gear oil). Interested to hear if anyone else has experienced this on manual or SS, V8 or V12?
So would the advice for a sensitive soul like me who is already aware of the grinding transmission noise be that a change to a twin plate clutch could enhance the problem?
Thankfully I have no intention of changing right now and am happy with the original clutch.
I've heard the chatter can come from the clutch plates, the prop shaft, or the transmission gears. Regardless of which (all?) is correct, it can happen. I've got a V12 clutch in my grey V8V and I get chatter occasionally. Not always. Only happens at idle when it happens at all. I run Motul Gear 300 in the car, which is slightly thicker than Castrol BOT270A but thinner than most 75w90 gear oils.
A more 'sure' way to eliminate it is to have the idle RPM raised slightly (~150 rpm), which generally fixes it while being pretty unnoticeable a change in engine idle speed for more people. I could do it with my car, but didn't because I wanted to see if I'd get the chatter or not.
Regardless, I've had the V12 clutch in my grey V8V for over a year and have put a bunch of miles on it - track days, long drives, stop-and-go commuting, and I absolutely love it. Much easier on the leg for heavy traffic driving, and the engine is livelier for spirited driving. I wrote a bit about the pros and cons of the clutch for drivability:
https://www.redpants.lol/power-mods-2-0508-v8-vant...
A more 'sure' way to eliminate it is to have the idle RPM raised slightly (~150 rpm), which generally fixes it while being pretty unnoticeable a change in engine idle speed for more people. I could do it with my car, but didn't because I wanted to see if I'd get the chatter or not.
Regardless, I've had the V12 clutch in my grey V8V for over a year and have put a bunch of miles on it - track days, long drives, stop-and-go commuting, and I absolutely love it. Much easier on the leg for heavy traffic driving, and the engine is livelier for spirited driving. I wrote a bit about the pros and cons of the clutch for drivability:
https://www.redpants.lol/power-mods-2-0508-v8-vant...
Sirius said:
Interestingly in the Japanese Car Community (JDM) this 'chatter' from twin plate clutches is often considered desirable. Not least as it is a giveaway that you have a 'proper' clutch installed.
I actually miss playing with JDM cars. So much more info out there, so many more options, and so much more leeway for doing things that aren't perfect, proper, or preferred. One of the most annoying clutches I've ever driven was a Nissan 240SX with an Exedy race clutch. The thing was binary. On or off. If you didn't get it right, you stalled. My buddy that owned the car told me I was the second person to ever NOT stall it hahaha.Something I always find funny is the difference in driving noises between a road car and a race car... the transmission. When I drove GMR's supercharged V8V, I asked what clutch was in it before driving, and was told it's a GT4 race clutch. Really worried me because I thought back to my buddy's 240 and how tricky that clutch was... but it was perfectly civil and I really liked it.
I've heard from a few people that a V12 clutch in a V8V can have a really bad "rattle can of marbles" sound, but I don't have that in mine. I also wonder how much that's exaggerated (not saying that to be judgmental or cynical!) - perception is everything, and if someone is expecting silence then any noise can be terribly loud by comparison. So all I can do is speak from my experience and be open minded to each person's perspective on it.
Just my opinion, of course. I'm knee-keep in vodka so I'm a bit more blabby than usual.
Gear chatter seems to be noticed by many, perhaps most V8 owners, at low revs/speed in 1st gear.
Slight acceleration, to increase the engine speed then immediately stops the unpleasant sounds.
When my car was stopped and at tickover, I did not experience any gear chatter.
After the twin plate clutch was fitted , there was an increase in the chatter symptoms, and it is now sometimes also audible at tickover.
I do not worry about it, but I do try to avoid the situations when it might occur.
Whether it creates wear, I do not know.
I don't think a V12 with a twin plate clutch makes any chatter sounds, probably because a V12 engine is one of the most perfectly balanced configurations when running.
Yes you get a little more chatter with a twin plate but only at very low speed/rpm. The solution is very obvious and what these cars were made for. If you want ultimate refinement, particularly in stop/start low speed traffic then you want a car with a slush box not a manual Vantage. However, if you want a drivers manual Vantage then optimising it with flywheel, clutch, exhaust, suspension and mapping upgrades will enhance it considerably. Horses for courses; pays your money, takes your choice and whatever other cliches you want to quote.
telum01 said:
Just my opinion, of course. I'm knee-keep in vodka so I'm a bit more blabby than usual.
As you said, Rich, from your explanation I learn that the "grinding transmission noise" and the "gear chatter" may have different causes - the first related to the propshaft, the second related to the clutch. Or whatever the causes may be.
As you said, Pete, each to his own. The main thing is to be informed about advantages and disadvantages before making a decision.
In an attempt to apply logic, I presume with the rear gearbox, when in neutral the propshaft and some parts within the gearbox will still be turning. Any vibrations created by the V8 running at very low revs, will therefore be transmitted to the gearbox and presumably create the chatter sound. Perhaps this is the explanation, if any chatter noise is heard at tickover.
Does that make any sense?
telum01 said:
I actually miss playing with JDM cars. So much more info out there, so many more options, and so much more leeway for doing things that aren't perfect, proper, or preferred.
My other toy is a 1996 Toyota Celica GT-Four. I've had it for years and know it inside out, the parts are generally plentiful and lots of different choices and there is a huge DIY and modding community with endless write-ups for all sorts of different jobs on the car.The Celica is tuned and running similar power to an early Vantage, when I did all the work I fitted a heavy duty single plate clutch which is very heavy quite like the standard V8 clutch. I plan to go to twin-plate in that car at some point as like the Vantage clutch it is fine once you are moving but a pain in traffic and when maneuvering.
There seems to be a growing base of info on the Vantage hopefully that will continue.
I had the twin plate clutch done by AM works about a year ago on my 08 V8VR manual. Slight chatter in first gear at low speed, but except for that it's brilliant. The pedal is so much lighter and with the lightened fly-wheel the engine revs are more responsive. A great investment as an upgrade.
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