RE: Porsche abandons diesel for good
Discussion
The V8 Diesel S with a little gentle remapping by DMS is an outstanding car. I didn't want a diesel but ended up with this and think its one of The best cars I have owned and don't plan to change it any time soon. The torque (now significantly higher than theTurbo S) when combined with that gearbox makes for a very fast car that can still do 700 miles to a tank. Its no sportscar, irrespective of fuel choice, but has a broader range of talents than most 4x4s.
irfan1712 said:
J4CKO said:
irfan1712 said:
Iamnotkloot said:
Porsche and diesel never sat right with me but I do have sympathy with people who were encouraged to buy diesel by successive governments and have now been stitched up.
quite right, but Porsche and ''SUV'' do? wasn't picking on you but everyone slates a sports car brand for putting diesel engines in their cars - but where does that argument end, because wouldn't the same people have a problem with Porsche sticking their badge on SUVs? The formula shouldn't work and maybe it doesn't, but their sales till now suggest otherwise.I just got myself a 2017 diesel V8 Panamera. it replaced a C63, I loathed diesels but for 20k business miles a year it just makes sense in so many ways (and it'll out perform the 63 anyway). I didn't buy the petrol because I'm tight - the petrols were the same or more expensive to purchase yet wouldn't come near the economy of the dirty stinky diesel.
More so I had it at a bargain (all things relative) due to the fact its diesel and OPCs generally want rid. I signed a disclaimer saying Porsche would refund money based on the purchase price and age/mileage at the time, If politicians and the like brought in legislation that made my car unroadworthy. Gives us Porsche diesel customers piece of mind that atleast in our ownership we wouldn't face any issues regarding the current diesel circus.
I can see how it would be in the same ball park and diesels go well based on high torque from low RPM but surely, ultimately a C63 at full noise will be quicker than the Panamera ?
The c63's 0-60 is 4.4 seconds - Panamera is 4.3. not a world of difference but off the mark the c63 wouldn't stand a chance, the four wheel drive on the Porsche is fantastic with launch control, infact its brutal. By all means the c63 was more chuckable being smaller but doing so would become skittish - you cant exactly dive into corners with a Panamera because its the same size as the titanic but that four wheel drive, which is rwd bias, and the air suspension is nothing short of sublime.
the powerplant itself is a peach - Its the only diesel I have ever driven that never runs out of steam and will pull to the redline just like a petrol would. Downside to that is when you take it in manual mode to have a play you can bash into the rev limiter quite quickly which is a bit anti climatic. The gt3's PDK 8 speed box used is also brilliant though. The problem for me is that it is so fast and explodes with torque, but its borderline silent - anything is compared to a C63. There is no drama, dare i say excitement. But then my commute wasn't exciting in a C63 sat in traffic and sitting on the M4 all day and I know which car i'd rather be sat in for those duties - the occasional battering on the weekend in the C63 is still doable in the Panamera. It just excellent at doing everything exceptionally well and honestly, there isn't many downsides. Theres a grunty but V8 noise which is actually quite pleasant, but there is defo no obvious sign its a diesel. At idle perhaps, but even so the clatter is quiet.
Never the less the c63 will be one of the best cars I will ever own, and that M156 is in my opinion the best engine that the everyday man could get his hands on. After the Panamera I have decided to get into a blackseries and buy a cheap workhorse for work duties - But a diesel panamera at the moment fits the bill perfectly.
and as a side point, the pan is faster than the c63, is light years ahead in the tech and interior department, and I've still averaged a solid 38mpg over 3k miles of pretty hard driving so far returning atleast 600 miles per tank. Coupled with 420bhp, 630lb ft of torque, & considering its 5 meters in length, 2 meters wide, 2 tonnes, 21'' wheels.. its quite an achievement. Yes its expensive to buy but remind myself its replaced two cars - Panamera residuals are pretty solid compared to rival cars and the fact its £200 to tax and only needs a service every 20k, which is a fixed price of £400 from an OPC, still means its actually cheaper than you'd expect to run. Tyres are pretty eye watering though. Insurance was cheaper than the C63 too.
Edited by irfan1712 on Wednesday 26th September 12:41
Edited by irfan1712 on Wednesday 26th September 12:48
I love the newer shape as well, I liek the earlier one despite its weird proportions and like you say, they seem to hold their money, nobody giving any panameras away.
Good riddance!!! Well done for taking a stand, Porsche.
Lung diseasel has robbed the world of many an otherwise wonderful rental car, shopping wagon and other miscellaneous automobilia. I for one will not mourn the demise of this foul, cancerous and utterly miserable store of chemical energy.
This is one thing the Americans got right from the outset; constrain diesel to lorries, trucks and other high-torque applications. Leave it the hell out of my potential rental car choices. Thanks!
Lung diseasel has robbed the world of many an otherwise wonderful rental car, shopping wagon and other miscellaneous automobilia. I for one will not mourn the demise of this foul, cancerous and utterly miserable store of chemical energy.
This is one thing the Americans got right from the outset; constrain diesel to lorries, trucks and other high-torque applications. Leave it the hell out of my potential rental car choices. Thanks!
I drive a diesel Astra (it’s a company car before you all lynch me). It recently had an ‘incident’ and was off the road for a while and due to the miles I do I was given a range of small estate cars.
Mine is a 1.6 110ps diesel and they first gave me a 1.4 petrol 100ps Astra. With all my kit inside it was dreadful to drive. So underpowered I had to downshift everywhere to get it to move, and drank fuel.
Then was given a 1.0 TSi Golf. Felt like it was moving when thrashed but real world economy was nowhere near my car. Then given a 1.2 TSi Leon. Again similar to the Golf.
Now back in the Astra, I’m getting over 50mpg with a boot full of crap and ladders on the roof, and it doesn’t feel underpowered due to the torque.
In my world, diesel is perfect due to economy and torque needed. However I would hedge a bet that when all 3 cars are empty, they would all be similar on fuel and petrol would be nicer to drive.
Mine is a 1.6 110ps diesel and they first gave me a 1.4 petrol 100ps Astra. With all my kit inside it was dreadful to drive. So underpowered I had to downshift everywhere to get it to move, and drank fuel.
Then was given a 1.0 TSi Golf. Felt like it was moving when thrashed but real world economy was nowhere near my car. Then given a 1.2 TSi Leon. Again similar to the Golf.
Now back in the Astra, I’m getting over 50mpg with a boot full of crap and ladders on the roof, and it doesn’t feel underpowered due to the torque.
In my world, diesel is perfect due to economy and torque needed. However I would hedge a bet that when all 3 cars are empty, they would all be similar on fuel and petrol would be nicer to drive.
Cobnapint said:
Sierra Mike said:
bertie said:
Porsche misreported them selves on their own website?
Sounds unlikely to say the least.
It won't be the first time.Sounds unlikely to say the least.
ks either. I've heard some right rubbish over the years.http://europe.autonews.com/article/20180927/ANE/18...
They have but it should be back in July they're having to re engineer it because of the new WLTP regs as it no longer qualifies for any of the previous incentives & government (will they ever learn) subsidies, so they're now having to fit a bigger battery etc to meet the range requirements & qualify for the incentives otherwise the car gets expensive.
My question is why should hybrids be given incentive schemes that are subsidised by you & I.
My question is why should hybrids be given incentive schemes that are subsidised by you & I.
Wow. It's coming to something when not even a Hybrid can get through the WLTP test.
If they fit a bigger battery, that's even more weight for the petrol engine to carry around. It'll require longer charging times whilst using that engine too, both of which means the engine will have to work harder, which equals more emissions, which.......oh what a mess.
If they fit a bigger battery, that's even more weight for the petrol engine to carry around. It'll require longer charging times whilst using that engine too, both of which means the engine will have to work harder, which equals more emissions, which.......oh what a mess.
You're misunderstanding me it's not that it can't pass the test as it is, it can but it would mean that it wouldn't qualify for the subsidies/Tax breaks that make the sale price seem more reasonable (a subsidie you & I are paying for) as well as the cost of running one. I think it's a good thing because with the new figures we the consumer will get a better idea of the true running costs.
ZX10R NIN said:
They have but it should be back in July they're having to re engineer it because of the new WLTP regs as it no longer qualifies for any of the previous incentives & government (will they ever learn) subsidies, so they're now having to fit a bigger battery etc to meet the range requirements & qualify for the incentives otherwise the car gets expensive.
The hybrid Cayenne is already 12k more than the base model with the same spec V6 petrol engine........... 
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