RE: Vauxhall Ampera: Spotted
Discussion
r11co said:
Russian Troll Bot said:
Not bad looking cars, but I never understood the point of that weird plastic ridge below the windows
It is to disguise the high window-line as a result of the high floor because the batteries are under the seats.The Ampera had one of the highest side impact scores ever tested by NCAP. I suspect GM reinforced the side structure to prevent battery damage, and that's why you have such a high window line.
The car is generally over-engineered. GM sought to avoid any complications with the battery and negative press
Hub said:
Do we know why they gave up on it so soon? Just poor sales?
Exactly that. In the UK they sold just north of 1200 of them, so pretty abysmal. European sales were 5300/year at the peak. Not good. One of the school dads worked on making it into a Vauxhall, and regularly had a Chevy Volt, complete with Michigan plates parked up outside his house (they went on sale in the US a while before the UK got them in 2012).
My opinion only, but the dash/interior looks pretty awful.
They're on the Mk2 version in the US, and it looks a lot better than the one we got:
Continental Europe got the Ampera-e to replace the Ampera. I think the UK dodged a bullet there.
Downward said:
How do they get to 235mpg ?
Thats better than a full electric.
No it's not, electric cars don't use any gallons of anything, at least not directly. Thats better than a full electric.
NEDC has lots of flaws, but one of them is that it allows cars to start with a full battery charge and end with an empty one. Hence pure EVs recording 0g/km and plug-in hybrids reporting almost entirely arbitrary figures. I do know someone with an Ampera and they have only put petrol in it a handful of times... I'd guess they're averaging something like 1000mpg of petrol but obviously they also put electricity in.
kambites said:
Downward said:
How do they get to 235mpg ?
Thats better than a full electric.
No it's not, electric cars don't use any gallons of anything, at least not directly. Thats better than a full electric.
NEDC has lots of flaws, but one of them is that it allows cars to start with a full battery charge and end with an empty one. Hence pure EVs recording 0g/km and plug-in hybrids reporting almost entirely arbitrary figures. I do know someone with an Ampera and they have only put petrol in it a handful of times... I'd guess they're averaging something like 1000mpg of petrol but obviously they also put electricity in.
Suppose it could go on the cost of electric at source
kambites said:
What? Surely no-one has ever built a hybrid which can't charge its batteries from its internal combustion engine? That'd be crazy!
There’s a few differences between hybrid and plug in hybrid. (Speaking about Toyota here)A normal Prius/Auris/C-HR recharges the battery pack from the engine or under deceleration. On the other hand, the original Plug-In Prius’ traction battery would either recharge from the engine, or via a plug. It would only ever recharge a very small percentage of the battery from the engine though (equivalent to a regular Prius) so you needed to plug in if you wanted the full 18 miles (12, in the real world) rather than the 1.5 you usually get from a regular, none plug-in Toyota hybrid.
The latest Prius Plug-In is different, in that you can recharge the battery pack from flat to full using the engine. I did ask the engineers at Toyota what sort of time/mileage this takes, but they wouldn’t answer and said it depends on a number of factors. Make of that what you will!
Hope that helps :-)
bozzy. said:
The latest Prius Plug-In is different, in that you can recharge the battery pack from flat to full using the engine. I did ask the engineers at Toyota what sort of time/mileage this takes, but they wouldn’t answer and said it depends on a number of factors. Make of that what you will!
Hope that helps :-)
Why would you ever do that? You're using the expense and inefficiency of petrol to create electricity.Hope that helps :-)
Evanivitch said:
bozzy. said:
The latest Prius Plug-In is different, in that you can recharge the battery pack from flat to full using the engine. I did ask the engineers at Toyota what sort of time/mileage this takes, but they wouldn’t answer and said it depends on a number of factors. Make of that what you will!
Hope that helps :-)
Why would you ever do that? You're using the expense and inefficiency of petrol to create electricity.Hope that helps :-)
Evanivitch said:
The Ampera can self-recharge upto 50% with mountain mode, but you'd be pretty stupid to do it unless you genuinely need a boost up a future mountain route.
The Prius battery is only 8.8kWh, the Ampera 10.5kWh (16kWh actually but it's very heavily protected).
The Prius only has a 91hp electric motor and limited to 62mph in EV. The Ampera EV motor is 130hp and goes all the way upto 100mph.
The Prius charges at 3.3kW like the Ampera.
The Ampera ICE will never kick in before the battery is depleted. Not under heavy acceleration. Not under high speeds.
I'd kill for the Prius MPG on petrol, but other than that it's definitely not a better car.
You're full of crap.
I suppose it depends what your idea of “better” is. The Prius battery is only 8.8kWh, the Ampera 10.5kWh (16kWh actually but it's very heavily protected).
The Prius only has a 91hp electric motor and limited to 62mph in EV. The Ampera EV motor is 130hp and goes all the way upto 100mph.
The Prius charges at 3.3kW like the Ampera.
The Ampera ICE will never kick in before the battery is depleted. Not under heavy acceleration. Not under high speeds.
I'd kill for the Prius MPG on petrol, but other than that it's definitely not a better car.
You're full of crap.
I can take a Prius to any Toyota dealer for repairs. Could you take an Ampera to any Vauxhall dealer?
What sort of reliability record do Vauxhall/Chevrolet have? Is it “better” than Toyota? What are the dealers like for customer service?
I could drive a Plug-in Prius 700 miles on one tank of fuel, getting an easy 80mpg on the way. Could the Ampera drive 700 miles without filling up? And what MPG does it do when the petrol engine is on?
Toyota have sold millions of hybrids globally as they have been in the market since the late 90’s. Didn’t Vauxhall drop the Ampera in 2014 due to poor sales? It sold for a few years and was axed. As a prospective customer, that would not fill me with confidence.
The Prius plug-in actually does up to 84mph on EV. Where did you get 62mph from? Not information for the old model Prius Plug-In?
No thanks, you can keep your dressed up Chevrolet to yourself. I’d take the Prius Plug-In every day of the week.
P.S I don’t mind having a grown up conversation with somebody about something, but less of the “you’re full of crap” remarks. It’s uncalled for.
Downward said:
Evanivitch said:
bozzy. said:
The latest Prius Plug-In is different, in that you can recharge the battery pack from flat to full using the engine. I did ask the engineers at Toyota what sort of time/mileage this takes, but they wouldn’t answer and said it depends on a number of factors. Make of that what you will!
Hope that helps :-)
Why would you ever do that? You're using the expense and inefficiency of petrol to create electricity.Hope that helps :-)
Edit to expand.
A regular, none plug in Prius can only generate electricity from either the engine or using the back torque from one of the motors under deceleration. These are capable of 80+ mpg quite easily.
The latest plug in Prius, when not plugged in generates it's electricity exactly the same. It isn’t inefficient at this like the Ampera is, so can’t be viewed the same.
Edited by bozzy. on Sunday 30th September 20:53
bozzy. said:
Evanivitch said:
The Ampera can self-recharge upto 50% with mountain mode, but you'd be pretty stupid to do it unless you genuinely need a boost up a future mountain route.
The Prius battery is only 8.8kWh, the Ampera 10.5kWh (16kWh actually but it's very heavily protected).
The Prius only has a 91hp electric motor and limited to 62mph in EV. The Ampera EV motor is 130hp and goes all the way upto 100mph.
The Prius charges at 3.3kW like the Ampera.
The Ampera ICE will never kick in before the battery is depleted. Not under heavy acceleration. Not under high speeds.
I'd kill for the Prius MPG on petrol, but other than that it's definitely not a better car.
You're full of crap.
I suppose it depends what your idea of “better” is. The Prius battery is only 8.8kWh, the Ampera 10.5kWh (16kWh actually but it's very heavily protected).
The Prius only has a 91hp electric motor and limited to 62mph in EV. The Ampera EV motor is 130hp and goes all the way upto 100mph.
The Prius charges at 3.3kW like the Ampera.
The Ampera ICE will never kick in before the battery is depleted. Not under heavy acceleration. Not under high speeds.
I'd kill for the Prius MPG on petrol, but other than that it's definitely not a better car.
You're full of crap.
I can take a Prius to any Toyota dealer for repairs. Could you take an Ampera to any Vauxhall dealer?
What sort of reliability record do Vauxhall/Chevrolet have? Is it “better” than Toyota? What are the dealers like for customer service?
I could drive a Plug-in Prius 700 miles on one tank of fuel, getting an easy 80mpg on the way. Could the Ampera drive 700 miles without filling up? And what MPG does it do when the petrol engine is on?
Toyota have sold millions of hybrids globally as they have been in the market since the late 90’s. Didn’t Vauxhall drop the Ampera in 2014 due to poor sales? It sold for a few years and was axed. As a prospective customer, that would not fill me with confidence.
The Prius plug-in actually does up to 84mph on EV. Where did you get 62mph from? Not information for the old model Prius Plug-In?
No thanks, you can keep your dressed up Chevrolet to yourself. I’d take the Prius Plug-In every day of the week.
P.S I don’t mind having a grown up conversation with somebody about something, but less of the “you’re full of crap” remarks. It’s uncalled for.
I've already made my point about the Ampera dealership support being poor, but that's no criticism of the car or the technology.
Prius is better on petrol, and has a larger fuel tank. Is that really better technology? No. They just spec'd a better ICE.
Concede the point on the top speed, poor research on my part. Point still stands that the electric motor is second fiddle to the ICE.
In turn you posted utter rubbish about the battery range, the charging speed and for some reason like charging off the ICE.
Evanivitch said:
Lol what has the dealerships got to do with the technology, which is specifically what your responded to!
I've already made my point about the Ampera dealership support being poor, but that's no criticism of the car or the technology.
Prius is better on petrol, and has a larger fuel tank. Is that really better technology? No. They just spec'd a better ICE.
Concede the point on the top speed, poor research on my part. Point still stands that the electric motor is second fiddle to the ICE.
In turn you posted utter rubbish about the battery range, the charging speed and for some reason like charging off the ICE.
Because dealership support is probably quite an important thing to somebody thinking of dropping 30k on a car. It’s absolutely relevant to the technology. What use is having the technology if your local dealer can’t look after it for you? I've already made my point about the Ampera dealership support being poor, but that's no criticism of the car or the technology.
Prius is better on petrol, and has a larger fuel tank. Is that really better technology? No. They just spec'd a better ICE.
Concede the point on the top speed, poor research on my part. Point still stands that the electric motor is second fiddle to the ICE.
In turn you posted utter rubbish about the battery range, the charging speed and for some reason like charging off the ICE.
Your point regarding the fuel tank size as well..If I need a car to drive a 500 mile journey as cheaply as possible, a Prius Plug-In would serve me better than the Ampera. It would do it using less fuel and I wouldn’t need to stop to refill half way. It’s as simple as that. To most people, that would make the Prius the better car.
What MPG does the Ampera do after it’s 39 mile EV range has ran out?
Also, if the Prius’ motor is second fiddle to the ICE, why is this not also the case for the Ampera? It does 39 miles on electric then 300 on petrol. So just over 10% of the journey is done via electric? Theoretically, a Prius Plug-In would revert back to a regular hybrid once the 39 miles had been used up. This means at speeds less than 45mph, around 50% of the mileage covered is EV. The other 50% petrol. Remember, they are self charging and run as a regular hybrid once the plug in bit has been used up. I’d argue this makes the Plug-In Prius’ electric motor less “second fiddle to the ICE” as the Ampera’s.
Info on the Toyota system;
https://www.toyota.co.uk/hybrid/hybrid-faq/chargin...
I’ll get some information on the charge times when I’m back in work on Tuesday to prove it only takes 3.5 hours to charge from a 3 pin plug.
Again, I don’t mind having a chat about it with somebody who has conflicting opinions, but why are you being so salty? You wouldn’t walk up to a stranger in a bar and say they were talking “crap” or “rubbish” so let’s not use the veil of being on the internet an excuse to do that with me.
Downward said:
Unless it has brake regen which can recharge the batteries.
You'd never net recharge it from brake regen in this sort of car because if you're slowing down to regen you want to use the electricity you regenerate to speed back up again. The Prius's ICE is obveriously massively superior for its task than that in the Ampera, that's going to happen when one uses a rather old, crude engine lifted from a normal car and the other uses a thoroughly modern Atkinson cycle unit designed expicitly for the application... but other than that I don't really see what the Prius offers in the way of hybridisation that's superior in real-world usage. Using the engine to charge the batteries doesn't appear achieve much.
ETA: Although I suppose it allows you to run in full EV mode at both ends of a long trip, thus avioding polluting urban areas by running the ICE when you're driving from city to city.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 30th September 22:05
bozzy. said:
Also, if the Prius’ motor is second fiddle to the ICE, why is this not also the case for the Ampera? It does 39 miles on electric then 300 on petrol. So just over 10% of the journey is done via electric?
The principle fo the Ampera is really that 99% of the target audience's trips are <40 miles and hence done on pure electric. The petrol engine is only there as an emergency backup for very rare longer trips. If you're intending to use an Ampera for 300 mile trips regularly, you bought the wrong type of car. The Prius is certaly the better suited car to regular long trips.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 30th September 22:18
kambites said:
bozzy. said:
Also, if the Prius’ motor is second fiddle to the ICE, why is this not also the case for the Ampera? It does 39 miles on electric then 300 on petrol. So just over 10% of the journey is done via electric?
The principle fo the Ampera is really that 99% of the target audience's trips are <40 miles and hence done on pure electric. The petrol engine is only there as an emergency backup for very rare longer trips. If you're intending to use an Ampera for 300 mile trips regularly, you bought the wrong type of car. That is why I’m saying it’s better-er than the Ampera.
bozzy. said:
The Prius-plug in also does 39 miles on a charge, at speeds up to 84mph. The difference is when the Prius Plug-In engine comes on after the 39 miles, it will still do 80mpg+
That is why I’m saying it’s better-er than the Ampera.
Yes, I think most people will agree that it's better for long journeys. The question is whether that really matters to most buyers. That is why I’m saying it’s better-er than the Ampera.
ETA: Of course the Ampera is quite an old application of this sort of technology now. The i3 takes the range extender concept a step further. It's a shame no-one else really seems to be trying it because I think there's a place for range extender EVs in the current market.
Chevrolet's US page claims that the average Volt goes 1100 miles between fillups.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 30th September 22:32
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