RE: All-new 2019 BMW 3 Series revealed

[SidewaysSi]

RobDickinson said:

yonex said:

You’re absolute bks spouting on BMW commitment to EV

This is how commited BMW is to ev's.
https://insideevs.com/bmw-defends-diesel-ev-hype-i...

Regardless of market penetration from electric vehicle automaker Tesla, Frölich still forecasts a gasoline-fueled internal combustion engine future. He said, “I think the discussion about electro-mobility is a little bit irrational… the world – Russia, Australia, a large portion of the world – they will have combustion engines for a very long time.”

Frölich notes that his “very optimistic scenario” assumes 15% of BMW’s cars going all-electric by 2030. In turn, he sees another 15% as plug-in hybrids — complete with combustion engines which, of course, still require fossil fuels. Therefore, he says, “I have 85 per cent in my portfolio in 2030 with a combustion engine.”


This guy is in charge of development.

Why do you care so much? Maybe they have done their research and know more than you do?

[RobDickinson]

You seem to be wrong again. I actually like some bmws.

Most recent ones are pretty ugly but the current 2 series /m2 is nice, sounds great, 5 series isn't bad. All the suv ones are pigs.

The outgoing 3 series was OK too, better looking than this one.

[anonymous-user]

It’s clear you don’t like BMW’s. It’s also clear you are desperate to prove a point that nobody is interested in. This is a thread aboiut the new BMW 3. I’d suggest it’s not for you.

[RobDickinson]

yonex said:

It’s clear you don’t like BMW’s. It’s also clear you are desperate to prove a point that nobody is interested in. This is a thread aboiut the new BMW 3. I’d suggest it’s not for you.

OK so why are you always posting st in the ev threads? Which is it?

Heres me thinking this is a general public forum for anyone to comment..

And my view on this car is its utterly the wrong time to be launching a new car in this market that's just ice.

[anonymous-user]

RobDickinson said:

OK so why are you always posting st in the ev threads? Which is it?

Heres me thinking this is a general public forum for anyone to comment..

And my view on this car is its utterly the wrong time to be launching a new car in this market that's just ice.

BMW often launch ranges with limited engine choice at the start, and then broaden it as time moves on.

[iSore]

yonex said:

And he earns considerably more than you.

Probably. And???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Kum8OUTuk

Ich habe bedeutend mehr Geld als Sie sind Englischer Schweinehund


For fks sake.

[anonymous-user]

RobDickinson said:

OK so why are you always posting st in the ev threads? Which is it?

Heres me thinking this is a general public forum for anyone to comment..

And my view on this car is its utterly the wrong time to be launching a new car in this market that's just ice.

It is an open forum, but when you write utter garbage for the sake of that is something else. Your view on this car is totally irrelevant, it's the best driving car in its segment and the runaway sales success. When BMW choose to launch a full EV version history is likely to repeat itself. Perhaps you can contain yourself to the EV thread, even there you post a lot of BS to be frank.

[RobDickinson]

yonex said:

runaway sales success.

Model(s) September 2018 USA Sales
Tesla Model 3 24,040
BMW 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 Series 10,889

[RobDickinson]

I'm sure the Russians will appreciate that in 2030.

[anonymous-user]

RobDickinson said:

I'm sure the Russians will appreciate that in 2030.

Blah blah blah. Tesla will be long gone by then.

[bodhi]

RobDickinson said:

yonex said:

runaway sales success.

Model(s) September 2018 USA Sales
Tesla Model 3 24,040
BMW 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 Series 10,889

I'm guessing BMW didn't have 500k (and dwindling) pre-orders to fulfill whilst they figured out how to build a car properly. Again, real car companies have found out that putting a car into production pretty much as soon as it is announced (this 3 Series is being built already) is a pretty damned good way to bring some cash in.

I mean we could compare BMW's Profit margins and Tesla's, but I suspect Mr Musk would get offended and start calling people pedos again.

[mylesmcd]

Wills2 said:

How does a thread about a new car turn into this st fest? PH has jumped the shark, I refuse to believe people are actually thinking or believe what they're posting, it's ridiculous.

If the car runs as well as a BMW thread, we are in for a right spectacle.

4 idiots arguing over their favorite color of tie.

[Ares]

RobDickinson said:

yonex said:

You’re absolute bks spouting on BMW commitment to EV

This is how commited BMW is to ev's.
https://insideevs.com/bmw-defends-diesel-ev-hype-i...

Regardless of market penetration from electric vehicle automaker Tesla, Frölich still forecasts a gasoline-fueled internal combustion engine future. He said, “I think the discussion about electro-mobility is a little bit irrational… the world – Russia, Australia, a large portion of the world – they will have combustion engines for a very long time.”

Frölich notes that his “very optimistic scenario” assumes 15% of BMW’s cars going all-electric by 2030. In turn, he sees another 15% as plug-in hybrids — complete with combustion engines which, of course, still require fossil fuels. Therefore, he says, “I have 85 per cent in my portfolio in 2030 with a combustion engine.”


This guy is in charge of development.

You think he's wrong? You think more than 30% of cars will be EV/PHEV in 10yrs time?

[Ares]

RobDickinson said:

yonex said:

It’s clear you don’t like BMW’s. It’s also clear you are desperate to prove a point that nobody is interested in. This is a thread aboiut the new BMW 3. I’d suggest it’s not for you.

OK so why are you always posting st in the ev threads? Which is it?

Heres me thinking this is a general public forum for anyone to comment..

And my view on this car is its utterly the wrong time to be launching a new car in this market that's just ice.

It isn't just ICE though. There will be a PHEV in the year of launch.

[Ares]

RobDickinson said:

yonex said:

runaway sales success.

Model(s) September 2018 USA Sales
Tesla Model 3 24,040
BMW 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 Series 10,889

And what was it year ago when the 3-series was 'only' a year from the new model coming out?

And how do sales compare in Europe?

[white_goodman]

Some interesting discussions come up here. On the dip the clutch to start thing, new vehicles are becoming "global" products now and this has been mandatory in North America for a good number of years now on a manual car. I assume it's to stop you from starting in gear and jumping forward but "keyless go" would make it a wise feature to have. Nothing new though really, did the Hyundai Lantra not have this feature in the early 90s? My MIL's 2007 Toyota Yaris manual in Canada had this feature and although my wife's 2009 Fiat 500 (the newest manual vehicle that we have owned) did not, my 2009 MINI Cooper does. Like the E90 3-Series by the sounds of it, you insert the key into the dash and then press the start button with your foot on the clutch. I don't tend to leave it in gear unless on a steep slope where I'll leave it in reverse if pointing down the hill and first if pointing up the hill (lest I forget) and turn the wheels towards the kerb. My dad still leaves his car in gear, which sometimes catches me out when I drive his car or he borrows mine! FYI, in Canada a lot of people don't tend to use their handbrakes much. Most drive an automatic and just leave it in park and where my in-laws live, it's pretty flat and is unlikely to roll away (although I might leave a manual in gear). The reason for this is if you put your handbrake on in -40C and leave it parked for a few hours, you may not be able to get the brake off again!

Anyway, the new 3-Series. BMW seem to "nail it" every other time with the design for me. E30 was great (so was the E21 to be fair) and then the E46 and F30 were good too. Interesting point about a new design every two generations and then an evolution. That's true but I think the E90 was a step change and then the F30 another step change, as they realised that they had gone too far with the E90 and E60 5er and possibly lost some ground to more conservative designs from Mercedes/Audi, so dialled it back a bit. So this, as an evolution of the F30 design fits in with that.

It's a little fussy to my eyes. The back is a little Jaguar XE/Audi A4 but maybe they'll "nail it" with the coupe version (I was never quite convinced by the F82? coupe) and regardless, the M3 version always looks great regardless of the basic design (see E90/E92 M3). I don't have a problem with the size. The F30 seemed like the perfect size to me, as I always found older 3-Series a bit lacking in terms of cabin and boot space compared to comparably-sized "non-premium" cars (Passat, Mondeo etc).

More importantly will be whether BMW have re-affirmed the 3-Series as the driver's car in this sector because arguably (although they will never have troubled it in terms of sales), two cars (Jaguar XE and Alfa Giulia) have surpassed the F30 3-Series in this respect. A little unfair on the 3-Series but I have always found the 4-pot petrol and diesel versions of the E36/E46/E90 a little underwhelming to drive. Those lovely straight six engines really bring the 3er alive, whereas with the A4/C-Class, the focus is on surefootedness (quattro) or luxury (C-Class), so as long as it's quiet and refined, the powertrain on these vehicles, isn't so crucial for me.

With a six-pot petrol/diesel and at least the option of a manual transmission, I would probably be tempted by this new 3-Series but if we're just talking 4-pot autos, I prefer the look of the Giulia/C-Class.

Edited by white_goodman on Monday 15th October 18:18

Edited by white_goodman on Monday 15th October 18:18

[white_goodman]

Re the 3-Series vs. Tesla Model 3 in America, the 3-Series is very much priced as a luxury car over there and significantly more money than say an Accord or Camry, so it's not as huge a seller as in Europe, where the premium over a Mondeo or Insignia isn't as big (especially on a lease). They also don't sell it in the more basic specs with the less powerful engines. Americans also tend to support domestic brands more i.e. Tesla, so I wouldn't necessarily say that the Model 3's success in America is indicative of its success (or the 3-Series relatively lack of success) globally. What is the price differential between a Model 3 and a 3-Series in the USA?

[RobDickinson]

white_goodman said:

What is the price differential between a Model 3 and a 3-Series in the USA?

Model 3 long range rwd is around the same price pre tax credit as the 340i ( $49,000), I think the P3d is similar price to m3 depending on options etc. I think the 330 is the smallest 3 they sell over there.

[E65Ross]

RobDickinson said:

white_goodman said:

What is the price differential between a Model 3 and a 3-Series in the USA?

Model 3 long range rwd is around the same price pre tax credit as the 340i ( $49,000), I think the P3d is similar price to m3 depending on options etc. I think the 330 is the smallest 3 they sell over there.

Ignoring the tax credit what about cost to the customer?

[RobDickinson]

That is ignoring the tax credit..?

That's why I said pre tax credit. Currently that makes the model 3 $7500 cheaper until the end of the year then it drops to 50 percent of that. Assuming you have enough taxes to claim it etc.