Advantages of 4WD on ordinary saloons?

[ericmcn]

jagnet said:

Equalish performance? Not . even . close.

Compare and contrast:

Your video: https://youtu.be/X8RQ_p4veis where you finally manage to achieve a heady 25mph on a briefly empty bit of dual carriageway in 10mm of light snow and slush.

Not your video: https://youtu.be/_DnB_TmhsPY where relatively normal road speeds are maintained.

dual carriageway was a 40 zone, plus a vehicle infront, most of my progress was inhibited by others in anything - I was not even pushing my car tbh and not once did it lose control or even trip ABS (dont have naff stability control or such stuff)

[ericmcn]

HM-2 said:

The point- that a FWD/RWD car on winters will stop and steer better than an AWD car on summers in the snow- is pretty obvious to anyone who isn't an ignoramus. Why don't you come back to the thread when you've learned to fking read?

Edited by HM-2 on Sunday 14th October 15:00

getting your knickers in a twist eh? you said 'if this hypothetical competion involving stopping and breaking' -

stopping and breaking done in my video, as well as others i posted - what more do you want? the fact that you need to resort to using the F word says enough.

[ericmcn]

Finlandia said:

Depends on how used the driver is to driving in such conditions, in Finland and Sweden we usually drive at speeds up to 80-100kph on snow covered roads, slower in heavy snowfall and unmade roads but on a road like in the video 80kph isn't a problem, slowing at junctions and roundabouts obviously.

We always have winter tyres on our cars though (by law), proper Nordic winter tyres with an even softer compound and usually a more aggressive tread and more sipes, they are often studded for extra grip on ice as well.

with 'nordic' specials a Legacy AWD would more than capable of such antics but I dont feel its really necessary to get winter compound for the few mm of snow we may get in blighty, unlike the German brethren who would probaby be better of with it.

[InitialDave]

Have you driven a car with winter tyres in icy/snowy conditions?

[ericmcn]

mcpoot said:

Don't underestimate Eric, this is no ordinary Subaru fanboi.

Don't you know he drives a manual facelift Spec-B saloon, one of the rarest cars in Britain!!

You lesser mortals in your German boxes don't understand, this car is a weapon!!

with only 80 or so facelifts licenced more rare than a TT anyway with about equal performance as your 'weapon' too

[Cold]

It's also worth remembering that snow in the UK is markedly different to the stuff that falls in Finland/Sweden when making comparisons of driving styles.

[tonyb1968]

InitialDave said:

Have you driven a car with winter tyres in icy/snowy conditions?

He keeps ignoring this questing Dave so the answer is no

On the other hand I have, and better set up awd cars with front/rear LSD's and locking center differentials, even I would be careful when driving in snow on summer tyres (nearly curbed my brand new awd car's alloys in snow because it had crap traction), i've also driven a fwd in the heart of Scotland with winter tyres on against 2 awd cars, one with and one without winter tyres, we both left the one on summer tyres for dead, literally.

[HM-2]

ericmcn said:

you said 'if this hypothetical competion involving stopping and breaking'

Which the 2WD vehicle would do better, simpleton. That isn't the same as the AWD vehicle not being able to manage them.

ericmcn said:

what more do you want?

You actually reading posts instead of imagining what they say might be nice.

[majordad]

In the Alps, you are allowed proceed up the mountain without having to fit snow chains if you have AWD. Me thinks a lot don’t want the hassle of fitting the chains so AWD is the solution.

[Mr Tidy]

ericmcn said:

Mr Tidy said:

Which videos do you recommend?

Are there specific ones that demonstrate how a Subaru on summer tyres can generate more cornering grip than any other car on winter tyres in the winter? And how can a Subaru on summers ever hope to stop as quickly as any other car on winters - they all have 4 wheel brakes after all - or did I miss something?

AWD may get you moving, but it is no use getting you cornering or stopping - that is when you need grip (which you get from having the right tyres) rather than power-sapping 4WD b*llocks.

specsavers anyone? my vid from March - now unless you are severely disabled on the vision front you can see some strides taken in terms of steering, breaking and navigating inclines - no? Falken summer tyres btw - also posted up 2 other videos with featured similar AWD cars with summer tyres.

The stopping and cornering would not be a fraction of what would be possible with winter tyres, thats pretty obvious but with summer or all weather tyres its not like you cant get out of first gear

So you basically agree (despite any vision limitations you think I may have) that AWD on summer tyres won't stop or corner like a 2WD car on winters then!

When there is ice or snow I'm not too bothered about getting out of 1st gear - I'm more concerned about being able to stop or go around corners.

The right tyres are much more useful than 4WD IMHO.

[anonymous-user]

ericmcn said:

with only 80 or so facelifts licenced more rare than a TT anyway with about equal performance as your 'weapon' too

It’s still a barge. Have you ever driven on winter tyres?

[Finlandia]

ericmcn said:

Finlandia said:

Depends on how used the driver is to driving in such conditions, in Finland and Sweden we usually drive at speeds up to 80-100kph on snow covered roads, slower in heavy snowfall and unmade roads but on a road like in the video 80kph isn't a problem, slowing at junctions and roundabouts obviously.

We always have winter tyres on our cars though (by law), proper Nordic winter tyres with an even softer compound and usually a more aggressive tread and more sipes, they are often studded for extra grip on ice as well.

with 'nordic' specials a Legacy AWD would more than capable of such antics but I dont feel its really necessary to get winter compound for the few mm of snow we may get in blighty, unlike the German brethren who would probaby be better of with it.

Funnily enough, with winter tyres, and even more so with Nordic winter tyres, any car is capable of driving like the Saab in the video.
In Germany you must have winter tyres (friction tyres, studded ones are illegal) fitted when the roads are covered in snow, the fines for not doing so if and when you cause an accident or obstruction are quite big.

[CABC]

majordad said:

In the Alps, you are allowed proceed up the mountain without having to fit snow chains if you have AWD. Me thinks a lot don’t want the hassle of fitting the chains so AWD is the solution.

which country was that?
during snowfall they sometimes have stop points at the bottom, i could imagine they let suvs continue and focus on cars. however my understanding is that if you crash and have summer tyres fitted you'll be guilty of negligence in DE, A and CH. Not sure about F and I.
despite all the keyboard warriors the evidence is clear in the alps every year. when conditions are adverse and cars are slipping, a good chunk are GB suvs.

[Flibble]

CABC said:

which country was that?
during snowfall they sometimes have stop points at the bottom, i could imagine they let suvs continue and focus on cars. however my understanding is that if you crash and have summer tyres fitted you'll be guilty of negligence in DE, A and CH. Not sure about F and I.
despite all the keyboard warriors the evidence is clear in the alps every year. when conditions are adverse and cars are slipping, a good chunk are GB suvs.

If only they were all driving Spec B Legacys they'd be fine. Eric said so.

FWIW I had winters on my old Haldex equipped AWD car and driving at 40-50 in a couple of cm of slush was like driving on a wet road. They were pretty amazing. Everyone else was stuck at 20 in the left lane as I sailed past in the middle lane. Then I got overtaken by an ambulance in lane three.

[nickfrog]

majordad said:

In the Alps, you are allowed proceed up the mountain without having to fit snow chains if you have AWD. Me thinks a lot don’t want the hassle of fitting the chains so AWD is the solution.

Not in France, which has some of the Alps in it although you'll be allowed in a 2wd providing you're on the correct tyre (surprise, surprise).

[Caddyshack]

My friend was in France on a ski trip and he was in a disco new shape on cross climates and was not allowed on to a pass, he had to get full winters.

A disco on cross climates in snow mode on the box is an amazing thing too. My Rangie on cross climates in snow mode on snow felt like a normal car on a normal dry road and it was amazing to watch the screen shuffling around the power as it locked and unlocked the diffs including the centre diff....it did all this without any difference to the way it drove.

[Mandalore]

ericmcn said:

HM-2 said:

The point- that a FWD/RWD car on winters will stop and steer better than an AWD car on summers in the snow- is pretty obvious to anyone who isn't an ignoramus. Why don't you come back to the thread when you've learned to fking read?

Edited by HM-2 on Sunday 14th October 15:00

getting your knickers in a twist eh? you said 'if this hypothetical competion involving stopping and breaking' -

stopping and breaking done in my video, as well as others i posted - what more do you want? the fact that you need to resort to using the F word says enough.

I think the point HM is trying to make is that a FWD/RWD car on summer tyres is worse than an AWD car on winters.

It’s pretty hard to disagree with that, considering that only one of the vehicles in the scenario is allowed winter tyres.

Edited by Mandalore on Monday 15th October 18:47

[RammyMP]

Caddyshack said:

My Rangie on cross climates in snow mode on snow felt like a normal car on a normal dry road and it was amazing to watch the screen shuffling around the power as it locked and unlocked the diffs including the centre diff....it did all this without any difference to the way it drove.

Eyes on the road please

[Caddyshack]

RammyMP said:

Caddyshack said:

My Rangie on cross climates in snow mode on snow felt like a normal car on a normal dry road and it was amazing to watch the screen shuffling around the power as it locked and unlocked the diffs including the centre diff....it did all this without any difference to the way it drove.

Eyes on the road please

Good point, I was in the passenger seat occifer....I mean drinkstable.

[RammyMP]

Caddyshack said:

RammyMP said:

Caddyshack said:

My Rangie on cross climates in snow mode on snow felt like a normal car on a normal dry road and it was amazing to watch the screen shuffling around the power as it locked and unlocked the diffs including the centre diff....it did all this without any difference to the way it drove.

Eyes on the road please

Good point, I was in the passenger seat occifer....I mean drinkstable.

Jolly good, as you were