Advantages of 4WD on ordinary saloons?

[nickfrog]

Caddyshack said:

A lot of 4wd cars handle worse due to all the extra weight you are lugging around, especially the front axle / diff. Many people thought Scoobies cornered better as the were 4wd but they understeer like pigs on many track days.

True and track days are where you actually explore the limits of the chassis. I see very few 4wd cars on track days, even Scoobys and Evo don't seem very present anymore compared to BMWs and Renaultsport cars.

Edited by nickfrog on Friday 19th October 18:13

[nickfrog]

Finlandia said:

Talking about traction and grip is bound to include the tyres as well, not only the layout of the car.

Absolutely, separating the two doesn't make much sense, particularly where winters are a good choice for around 5 months of the year like in many parts of the UK. I ended up running either semi slicks or winters at one point.

[Caddyshack]

blade7 said:

In a location where the majority would probably benefit from winter tyres for less than a month each year?

Winter tyres work better than summer tyres when the temperature is below 16 degrees, many countries, including the UK spends a lot of time under that temp....they are not just about snow.

[Finlandia]

blade7 said:

Finlandia said:

blade7 said:

Finlandia said:

Took some time, but we got there in the end. Any car on winter tyres is better than any other car on summer tyres when driving on ice and snow.

It took a lot less time to turn a thread about 4WD into one about tyres....

Talking about traction and grip is bound to include the tyres as well, not only the layout of the car.

In a location where the majority would probably benefit from winter tyres for less than a month each year?

Winter tyres have a huge benefit already from around 10 degrees, not only on snow and ice.

[schmalex]

neil1jnr said:

gizlaroc said:

schmalex said:

I have a 535i. It’s one of the most dull cars I’ve ever owned.

I drive my Panda 4x4 whenever I can as it’s so much more fun!

Yeah, I had a 335i, I found that dull and went back to a NA M3.

But, I also have a 530d Touring, just imagine your 535i with a diesel engine in it. Eurgghh!!

I have 535d. It isn't the best drivers car, but does it's job well on the 90 mile a day commute. I'd prefer the diesel over a 535i if I am honest...but would prefer a 5 series over an equivalent A6 in the majority of cases. Imagine an A6 in comparison to the 5 series...

I wish I’d bought the 535d to be honest. Totally agree about the 5 v A6, though.

To be fair, the 535i returns 31mpg across all my driving, mainly an 80 mile each way run to work on the cruise at 82. I had a Mini Countryman while mine was in for service today and that was only averaging 34

Edited by schmalex on Friday 19th October 18:30

[blade7]

Caddyshack said:

blade7 said:

In a location where the majority would probably benefit from winter tyres for less than a month each year?

Winter tyres work better than summer tyres when the temperature is below 16 degrees, many countries, including the UK spends a lot of time under that temp....they are not just about snow.

Millions of UK drivers aren't falling of the road or crashing due to low temperatures each year. Are you suggesting Winters let you drive faster below 16 degrees?

[CABC]

blade7 said:

Millions of UK drivers aren't falling of the road or crashing due to low temperatures each year. Are you suggesting Winters let you drive faster below 16 degrees?

16 degrees is a little high. maybe he meant 6?
thing is, thousands of people are falling off the road each year in the cold and wet. maybe not in fatal crashes, but the number of bumps and near misses is huge after rain, snow or frost. obviously rain is not the same as cold or snow. the common factor is the nut behind the wheel though.

[Caddyshack]

blade7 said:

Caddyshack said:

blade7 said:

In a location where the majority would probably benefit from winter tyres for less than a month each year?

Winter tyres work better than summer tyres when the temperature is below 16 degrees, many countries, including the UK spends a lot of time under that temp....they are not just about snow.

Millions of UK drivers aren't falling of the road or crashing due to low temperatures each year. Are you suggesting Winters let you drive faster below 16 degrees?

No, I was responding to the person who quoted that winter tyres are only beneficial for less than a month, they are not, they are beneficial in cold weather. Normal tyres do not make you fall off the road, it is just that a winter tyre is designed to work in low temps, not just snow. If you run a winter tyre and then a summer tyre at the correct times of year you get the best out of each tyre and they seem to last longer than the sum of two tyres normally.

[Caddyshack]

It may be that the winter tyres are "up to"16 degrees at which point you would be better off on summers or doing damage at over 16.

I now see a few school mums on winters during the summer which is a whole new issue and may be even an insurance issue.

[blade7]

Caddyshack said:

No, I was responding to the person who quoted that winter tyres are only beneficial for less than a month, they are not, they are beneficial in cold weather.

I've safely negotiated cold weather for years without winter tyres, how would they have benefited me?

[InitialDave]

blade7 said:

I've safely negotiated cold weather for years without winter tyres, how would they have benefited me?

Same way good tyres benefit you over st tyres for general driving, even if you've never had a "moment".

[Caddyshack]

blade7 said:

I've safely negotiated cold weather for years without winter tyres, how would they have benefited me?

They last longer and grip better. They are not snake oil. If you can stop in a shorter distance, pull away harder and steer better in wet weather is that not a good thing? (This is pistonheads)


I am not suggesting that you crash without them, I was answering the poster who said the are only beneficial for less than a month but the negative posters cannot seem to read that.

If you don’t want winters then don’t buy them. I bought a set and have been a convert ever since and when it does sometimes snow you can drive safely when others are getting stuck.

I was pulling people out of ditches round here 3 yrs ago.

[InitialDave]

Caddyshack said:

If you don’t want winters then don’t buy them. I bought a set and have been a convert ever since and when it does sometimes snow you can drive safely when others are getting stuck.

I'd be interested in finding out how many people have used winter tyres over a winter and not become converts.

[blade7]

Caddyshack said:

If you don’t want winters then don’t buy them. I bought a set and have been a convert ever since and when it does sometimes snow you can drive safely when others are getting stuck.

Never been stuck, should I want them?

[Caddyshack]

blade7 said:

Never been stuck, should I want them?

Yes but I don’t think you are a winter tyres buyer. If you do get stuck then remember this thread.

You have also missed what i also said which is often the case with people on the wrong end of an internet argument, what about stopping better, steering better in cold weather and lasting longer etc....

You don’t get chance to say "I wish I had bought winter tyres" when you plough in to the back of a broken down tractor on a cold and wet winters night on a blind bend.

[DoubleD]

blade7 said:

Caddyshack said:

If you don’t want winters then don’t buy them. I bought a set and have been a convert ever since and when it does sometimes snow you can drive safely when others are getting stuck.

Never been stuck, should I want them?

Well as we all know, they provide more grip when its cold. Its up to you if you feel you need that grip or not.

[blade7]

Caddyshack said:

You have also missed what i also said which is often the case with people on the wrong end of an internet argument, what about stopping better, steering better in cold weather and lasting longer etc....

[Caddyshack]

Ooh a picture. Here is mine

[ericmcn]

Flibble said:

You're quoting the auto gearbox there. Manual is faster (shorter ratios). Variously tested here at around 6.4s: https://www.0-60specs.com/subaru-brz-0-60-times/

Also power to weight:
BRZ: 197 bhp / 1.25t = 157.6 bhp/ton
Legacy: 243 BHP / 1.44t = 168.75 bhp/ton

Pretty close, and once you take into account higher drivetrain losses for the Legacy you can see why the 0-60 times are almost identical.
Better aero on the BRZ too if we're comparing.

Dont know where you get figures from, from Autotrader

Manual BRZ

Engine power 197 bhp
Engine size 1998 cc
Brochure Engine size 2.0 litres
Acceleration (0-60mph) 7.6 seconds (7.4 on parkers)
Top speed 140 mph
Drivetrain Rear Wheel Drive

Auto BRZ

Engine power 197 bhp
Engine size 1998 cc
Brochure Engine size 2.0 litres
Acceleration (0-60mph) 8.2 seconds (7.9 on parkers)
Top speed 130 mph
Drivetrain Rear Wheel Drive

SpecB is quite a bit faster and if you have them mapped for high octance fuel like mine is then 0-60 is even quicker, anyway I prefer a flat 6 with a glorious noise with AWD anyday of the week - A 370Z would be more what I would aim for in terms of a fast coupe.

[ericmcn]

Nanook said:

They drive a bit like either of the Imprezas that I've had previously, only they're bigger, heavier and slower.

My general preference is for NA engines. But in a Subaru, where boost coming on mid corner is less likely to cause issues, as a result of the 4WD system, the turbocharged engines are a lot more fun, and a lot faster.

My first one weighted <1200kg with around 320bhp. Lots of upgrades including a lightweight flywheel, which made a huge difference IMO. That was fun.

My second one was a standard Blob WRX PPP with 265bhp and carrying a bit more weight. Useful, but not really all that exciting.

Have you driven a SpecB, yes or no? (manual ideally but i guess not) it’s no supercar but certainly handles better than many cars out there and you would find hard to see negative reviews on them, it weighs about 1400kg and with 245hp or so and AWD that is not bad, but then again, your amazing knowledge of cars probably leaves everyone else in the shade.