Advantages of 4WD on ordinary saloons?

[ericmcn]

yonex said:

In fairness it's not a particularly quick car.

depends on how 'quick' is to you, for most of the time it is sure fast enough to keep up to pace with (and overtake) others on the road, how fast is 1.3seconds? that the difference between the SpecB 0-60 and these, probably less than that in fact. One thing I dont have to worry about is maintenance issues which is always something which would put me off a nice 6 cylinder BMW.

BMW 330i MSport 0-60 6.0s
BMW 850CSI 0-60 5.7s
Golf R 2012 0-60 5.7s
WRX Sti 0-60 5.2s

[ericmcn]

InitialDave said:

ericmcn said:

meanwhile most of the develped world would disagfree with you.

Not at all, I normally only get into the arguments about Subarus with Aussies.

But no, I'm not a font of all knowledge - however, I have been fortunate to drive a lot of different vehicles, spanning more than a century of development in what's been road legal in the UK, and I tend not to express an opinion on stuff I don't know much about.

You think Subaru AWD is the best in the whole wide world bar none, apparently based on owning one middle-of-the-road mid-2000s Subaru, and think winter tyres offer little to no benefit, apparently based on trying precisely zero winter tyres.

I said i did NOT find the need to have winters, i did not say they are useless. If we have 6 inches of snow, then sure i would get them but as it stands for the few mm of snow we usually get i dont find a need with decent all weather tyres and AWD its more than adequate.

Not the front of all knowledge, are you sure?

[mcpoot]

ericmcn said:

yonex said:

In fairness it's not a particularly quick car.

depends on how 'quick' is to you, for most of the time it is sure fast enough to keep up to pace with (and overtake) others on the road, how fast is 1.3seconds? that the difference between the SpecB 0-60 and these, probably less than that in fact. One thing I dont have to worry about is maintenance issues which is always something which would put me off a nice 6 cylinder BMW.

BMW 330i MSport 0-60 6.0s
BMW 850CSI 0-60 5.7s
Golf R 2012 0-60 5.7s
WRX Sti 0-60 5.2s

You know that irritating mosquito that keep making that annoying noise, that's you Eric.

[InitialDave]

ericmcn said:

Not the front of all knowledge, are you sure?

I've mellowed out in my old age.

[anonymous-user]

ericmcn said:

depends on how 'quick' is to you, for most of the time it is sure fast enough to keep up to pace with (and overtake) others on the road, how fast is 1.3seconds? that the difference between the SpecB 0-60 and these, probably less than that in fact. One thing I dont have to worry about is maintenance issues which is always something which would put me off a nice 6 cylinder BMW.

BMW 330i MSport 0-60 6.0s
BMW 850CSI 0-60 5.7s
Golf R 2012 0-60 5.7s
WRX Sti 0-60 5.2s

I have known two friends who have had WRX's and have had enough issues to put me off them for life. I don't understand why anyone would drive around in a big barge like 4WD car for a handful of days in which they could honestly say, 'I wouldn't had made it without 4WD'. Besides, My RWD BMW would go further than nay Subaru on summer tyres. 6 seconds to 60 isn't quick. Sorry if you think it is.

[ericmcn]

I find the Subaru much better handling than any of my previous cars, most people dont own AWD cars however so its always going to be a one sided conversation in this thread

if German cars are so untouchable and have the best driving dynamics why are they involved in many accidents? (in before the driver error)

https://carbuzz.com/news/bmw-tops-the-list-of-10-c...

I will stick with AWD for now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Rwabhp5zMs

Edited by ericmcn on Friday 19th October 22:55

[ericmcn]

yonex said:

I have known two friends who have had WRX's and have had enough issues to put me off them for life. I don't understand why anyone would drive around in a big barge like 4WD car for a handful of days in which they could honestly say, 'I wouldn't had made it without 4WD'. Besides, My RWD BMW would go further than nay Subaru on summer tyres. 6 seconds to 60 isn't quick. Sorry if you think it is.

I got a flat 6 as I did not want a turbo and issues they can bring up plus it sounds far better, I am sure your BMW would go further - you would hardly say otherwise.. the ultimate driving machine and all that.

[InitialDave]

ericmcn said:

I find the Subaru much better handling than any of my previous cars, most people dont own AWD cars however so its always gonig to be a one sided conversation in this thread

I currently own 4 cars that can send power to all 4 wheels. How many AWD cars - in total - have you owned/driven?

[DoubleD]

How is this thread still going? Its been answered. Grip comes from tyres and 4 wheel drive can make better use of this grip under acceleration.

[anonymous-user]

ericmcn said:

I find the Subaru much better handling than any of my previous cars, most people dont own AWD cars however so its always gonig to be a one sided conversation in this thread

if German cars are so untouchable and have the best driving dynamics why are they involved in many accidents? (in before the driver error)

https://carbuzz.com/news/bmw-tops-the-list-of-10-c...

I will stick with AWD for now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Rwabhp5zMs

You go to an American website for that BS

I think you need to drive a few more vehicles to gain perspective, also on different surfaces with winter tyres.

Am i doing this right.....

[mcpoot]

DoubleD said:

How is this thread still going? Its been answered. Grip comes from tyres and 4 wheel drive can make better use of this grip under acceleration.

Because Eric is the gift that keeps giving

[ericmcn]

InitialDave said:

I currently own 4 cars that can send power to all 4 wheels. How many AWD cars - in total - have you owned/driven?

talkng about the general population of ca 40 million vehicles - how many of them are AWD? I only have driven the Subaru but its AWD with 50/50 split and lsd with a manual is considered to be the amongst the best so think thats ok for comparison sake, AWD systems send power to all 4 wheels differently as you know even with auto and manual legacies.

Edited by ericmcn on Friday 19th October 23:05

[ericmcn]

yonex said:

You go to an American website for that BS

I think you need to drive a few more vehicles to gain perspective, also on different surfaces with winter tyres.

Am i doing this right.....

not really tbh, seen / read crap load of BMW crashes in England also, hardly surprising. Look at Nürburgring fantastic handling clearly evident all round.

[anonymous-user]

ericmcn said:

not really tbh, seen / read crap load of BMW crashes in England also, hardly surprising. Look at Nürburgring fantastic handling clearly evident all round.

Yes, for sure. If you think a Legacy is the last word in dynamics it just shows your ignorance of what is out there, as does saying you haven't driven on winter tyres and making sweeping generalisations on how a front or rear wheel drive car handles on them? You've seen and read a crap load of BMW crashes, really? Desperate IMO.

[ericmcn]

yonex said:

Yes, for sure. If you think a Legacy is the last word in dynamics it just shows your ignorance of what is out there, as does saying you haven't driven on winter tyres and making sweeping generalisations on how a front or rear wheel drive car handles on them? You've seen and read a crap load of BMW crashes, really? Desperate IMO.

I am sure there are many many cars better than a Legacy but its not like BMW is the last word in automotive history, which many people seem to think, like you.

BMW also propping up here, not really desperate - maybe the truth hurts? the fact these are USA stats is probably worse due to the much larger demographic if anything.

https://www.autoblog.com/photos/cars-most-likely-t...

I think BMW are overrated and you think Subaru are old clonkers with terrible handing, lets leave it at that.

[blade7]

InitialDave said:

If you ever get the opportunity to drive something that's "properly" set up for winter use (winter tyres coupled with four wheel drive and locking diffs, preferably with some decent grunt to drive the whole malarkey), give it a go, it really puts the "I've always been fine on normal tyres in my 2wd cars" argument into perspective. "

Who argued that?

[anonymous-user]

ericmcn said:

I am sure there are many many cars better than a Legacy but its not like BMW is the last word in automotive history, which many people seem to think, like you.

BMW also propping up here, not really desperate - maybe the truth hurts? the fact these are USA stats is probably worse due to the much larger demographic if anything.

https://www.autoblog.com/photos/cars-most-likely-t...

I think BMW are overrated and you think Subaru are old clonkers with terrible handing, lets leave it at that.

No, I think you haven't driven many decent cars, I know you haven't driven on winter tyres and I am sure not in serious snow. Look at my car ownership before you start making yourself look daft.

[InitialDave]

ericmcn said:

AWD systems send power to all 4 wheels differently as you know even with auto and manual legacies.

Yes, I do know.

A major difference between you and I is that I've driven several of them, and so my opinion on what that "differently" equates to is based on something more than ctrl+c/ctrl+v action on other people's writings.

Some of these people consider Subaru's "50:50" setup to be the best, I don't dispute that they do - but I disagree, and I'm completely happy to have the stand-up argument with them about it, on the basis of having owned/driven a stload of the alternatives.

My opinion is that a RWD-biased setup which feeds in front drive as the rear end loosens up is the optimum AWD system for someone who isn't a monkey brought up on FWD stuff, but true (locked out) 50:50 in a very, very light (approx 3/4 ton) car will eat its lunch in truly slippery conditions, assuming equivalent tyres, and some form of active/locking/limted slip diff on the front and rear axles simply demolishes stuff lacking that when the going gets truly difficult.

blade7 said:

Who argued that?

Apologies if I've misinterpreted you, but it seems that you're taking a position of "I've not needed winter tyres up until now, so they're not worth having", and my perspective - having tried a lot of stuff - is that no, you probably don't need winter tyres if you're halfway experienced/competent, but take someone with a decade or two of driving in Yorkshire/Northumberland/Scottish winters and put them on winters, they'll simply fk off up the road and leave you having to drive out your skin to keep up with them, regardless of how many wheels you're throwing BHP at.

Edited by InitialDave on Friday 19th October 23:57

[blade7]

InitialDave said:

blade7 said:

Who argued that?

Apologies if I've misinterpreted you, but it seems that you're taking a position of "I've not needed winter tyres up until now, so they're not worth having", and my perspective - having tried a lot of stuff - is that no, you probably don't need winter tyres if you're halfway experience/competent, but take someone with a decade or two of driving in Yorkshire/Northumberland/Scottish winters and put them on winters, they'll simply fk off up the road and leave you having to drive out your skin to keep up with them, regardless of how many wheels you're throwing BHP at.

You have misinterpreted me. My comments on this thread related to me using my A4 quattro. Never driven up north in winter so can't comment on that. But IMO anyone that needs winters on a modern AWD saloon when it's a bit chilly outside, should get some driving tuition.

Edited by blade7 on Saturday 20th October 00:06

[DoubleD]

blade7 said:

You have misinterpreted me. My comments on this thread related to me using my A4 quattro. Never driven up north in winter so can't comment on that. But IMO anyone that feels they need winters on a modern AWD saloon when it's a bit chilly outside, needs some driving tuition.

How will driving tuition reduce a braking distance?