RE: Lotus Elan S2: Spotted

[snowen250]

Simon Owen said:

Lotus need (well I can dream) to make a new Elan, not an Elise, with the size, weight, roof design & packaging of the ND MX5 but with the dynamics and performance of a Lotus. It doesn't need to be 700kg to be a fine handling well balanced sports car.

1,050 kg works fine !!

Practicality in the Elise is pants, we've spent 10+ years 'fast road' touring in a 7 and looked at the Elise on numerous occasions thinking it would be more practical, every time we decided the 7 was better ... bigger boot and easier to throw a half hood on & off !!

We have just done an epic 1,700 mile trip around the highlands in very changeable weather, the car of choice ... a BBR ND MX5, yes for that magic moment I missed the focus of the 7 dearly and an Elise would have been just as epic to drive but both would have been utterly miserable in the fast changing weather.

The ND allowed us to drive roof down for about 85% of the trip, roof up, roof down all of the time and with enough space & creature comforts to deal with "4 seasons in one day". Most of the time it is brilliant fun ... but when you get to that magic road when everything comes together its limitations show. Yes we could have chosen a Boxter but we wanted something smaller & lighter with more modest grip levels, a new Elan could tick all our boxes and I think would sell reasonably well, perhaps even work with Mazda to tick the NA box !!! Ha yes I know dream on ...

Off topic - proper creepy to see someone with the exact same name you have post something you agree with. Very odd.

[Black S2K]

snowen250 said:

Off topic - proper creepy to see someone with the exact same name you have post something you agree with. Very odd.

I now have an image of John Cleese going on about climbing both peaks of Mount Kilimanjaro in my mind...

[Kolbenkopp]

Simon Owen said:

Yes we could have chosen a Boxter but we wanted something smaller & lighter with more modest grip levels, a new Elan could tick all our boxes and I think would sell reasonably well, perhaps even work with Mazda to tick the NA box !!! Ha yes I know dream on ...

We share a dream there, but we both know it's not going to happen . At least not from Lotus. And to be fair to the original -- it was high tech and expensive in period. Not a competitor for say a Spitfire or MGB, but aiming more at a 911 in price and performance. Such cars also exist today, from BAC or Ariel or Caterham.

Luckily, Mazda still keep refining their Elan inspired car. Will be interesting to see what BBR can achieve with the new G184 engine. Starting point is now pretty much Elan Sprint power/weight ratio... And lots of aftermarket options to sharpen the handling. Only thing that is never going to be equalled is the steering feel :-/.

[Simon Owen]

Kolbenkopp said:

Simon Owen said:

Yes we could have chosen a Boxter but we wanted something smaller & lighter with more modest grip levels, a new Elan could tick all our boxes and I think would sell reasonably well, perhaps even work with Mazda to tick the NA box !!! Ha yes I know dream on ...

We share a dream there, but we both know it's not going to happen . At least not from Lotus. And to be fair to the original -- it was high tech and expensive in period. Not a competitor for say a Spitfire or MGB, but aiming more at a 911 in price and performance. Such cars also exist today, from BAC or Ariel or Caterham.

Luckily, Mazda still keep refining their Elan inspired car. Will be interesting to see what BBR can achieve with the new G184 engine. Starting point is now pretty much Elan Sprint power/weight ratio... And lots of aftermarket options to sharpen the handling. Only thing that is never going to be equalled is the steering feel :-/.

Mazda have done really well with the ND, it's close to the Elan in concept and the positives FAR outweigh the negatives by a country mile.

BBR's NA work on the engine is very resolved, reliable and OEM in feel etc. All relative I know and it depends what you want but 214 bhp at 7,000rpm is perfectly adequate in a 1050 kg car and feels proper quick in the real world. Apparently improvements have been made to the steering settings, rack, electronics, assistance I'm not sure which but it is supposed to be better. There are some pretty clever suspension mods around to give really good control and damping for road use too, i.e. as opposed to slapping on track focused coilovers that are too stiff for road use.

https://www.sakebombgarage.com/fpspec-ohlins-dfv-n...

Problem is the chassis isn't that stiff so it will never have that edge you get with more focused drivers cars, most of the time it's fine but when you really push on it shows its limitations. Back to back with the GT86 for example you really notice this element ... which I can only put down to chassis stiffness and steering feel.

I'll be sticking with mine for now, trying to improve its focus but at the same time trying not to turn it into something it isn't. The modest grip levels (even on PS4 tyres) and friendly chassis balance are really good fun !!

( It's such a shame that Mazda didn't nail the EPAS system, others have done it very successfully, at least to the extent that it is not a distraction anyway. There is just no excuse given efforts made in other areas to improve driver involvement. You do learn to live with it and once you trust the chassis yo can just push on but I'm not going to lie, jumping in an 86 afterwards is quite a shocking in terms of how much better it is )

Edited by Simon Owen on Thursday 11th October 14:26

[coppice]

ND owner here too - after 20 years of Sevens at least there I still can claim a very(very ) tenuous Lotus link . The ND , NA apart , is still probably the closest homage to an Elan on sale, and I was impressed it is so light, if still 30% heavier than an Elan and not much , if at all , roomier.

But after a year of the ND I still loathe the steering , which is irredeemably bad , with no feel at all and also it is far too light .

[kambites]

For those who want a "modern-day Elan" surely the obvious answer is the Ginetta G40R? Although admittedly there's no convertible version.

[Equus]

snowen250 said:

...I cant afford one. So I bought a Mk1 MX5. Which essentially. Does all the same things.

I've owned a Mk.1 MX5 at the same time as owning an Elan (so frequently drove them literally back to back), and I can tell you that it doesn't.

It doesn't even come close: the MX5 is bloated, baggy and sluggish in comparison.

It lacks torsional stiffness, so shudders like a stting spaniel on bumpy roads.

The 16-valve engine is anodyne and gutless, with a very linear power delivery (the Elan's, being a 2-valve, is a lot torquier and punchier)

And the gearchange - whilst good - isn't a patch on the Elan's Ford 4-speed box.

[JohnMcL]

kambites said:

For those who want a "modern-day Elan" surely the obvious answer is the Ginetta G40R? Although admittedly there's no convertible version.

Or a Ginetta G4 from Dare. http://www.dareuk.com/g4.php

[Equus]

JohnMcL] said:

Or a Ginetta G4 from Dare. http://www.dareuk.com/g4.php

The big difference is that the Elan had (has) really very compliant suspension: the ride is as good as many modern non-sporting saloons, which makes it exceptionally useable as a road car, on our crappy, potholed tarmac.

The Ginetta looks like an Elan, but it drives more like a Seven - which means that you frequently find your cross-country pace is limited by suspension composure.

[Simon Owen]

Equus said:

snowen250 said:

...I cant afford one. So I bought a Mk1 MX5. Which essentially. Does all the same things.

I've owned a Mk.1 MX5 at the same time as owning an Elan (so frequently drove them literally back to back), and I can tell you that it doesn't.

It doesn't even come close: the MX5 is bloated, baggy and sluggish in comparison.

It lacks torsional stiffness, so shudders like a stting spaniel on bumpy roads.

The 16-valve engine is anodyne and gutless, with a very linear power delivery (the Elan's, being a 2-valve, is a lot torquier and punchier)

And the gearchange - whilst good - isn't a patch on the Elan's Ford 4-speed box.

Would love to drive a sprint :-)

BBR close some of these gaps with the ND in NA tune, it will always feel bloated next to a sub 700kg car but compared to everything else (with this packaging & practicality) it feels small and light. BBR address the baggy and sluggish point with just over 200bhp/tonne and very surprising low down torque, 214bhp @ 7,050rpm and 183lbft @ 3,850rpm.

With the roof down and upgraded exhaust the engine feels really sweet, not so tuneful roof up though :-(

Torsional rigidity isn't quite that bad in the ND but agreed far from perfect, little they can do about this without a more exotic chassis I guess but I do continue my search to improve steering feel ... Boxter is way better in this respect BUT bigger, heavier and less playful at sensible road speeds.