RE: McLaren Speedtail reveal date confirmed
Discussion
Lol I really do not care about any of this; you should be able to tell by my post count.
I see you really do, as you are (one) of McLaren's white knights who will try to justify anything they do, without sound logic, so lets proceed shall we...
Out of interest have you driven a Senna, sat in one, or even seen one close up?
Genuine question. -
(No, I have no desire to drive one, because of the "McLaren formula". Maybe if they made one in stick i wouldn't mind giving one a go. I have absolutely no desire to see one up close due to how horrified I am by looking at the images, sorry.)
If you have, then I doubt you’d pursue the line of argument that it’s just a 720S in disguise. -
(I have 2 functioning eyes which lets me know the Senna is a 720s with a power bump and a body kit - not at all worth the asking price - If they named the Senna the 720S "LT" or something I don't think they would have upset anyone. But they chose to desecrate the great Senna's name; worst of all by putting it on that thing.)
Of course there are shared elements - it’s the same story with every manufacturer - but the differences are pretty significant. -
(The differences are not bespoke enough to justify the NAME or Absurd asking price they are milking out of their customers. It is not a brand new model, which is my point; they are using marketing (lying) to make is seem like it is. Most of all changing the name to Senna to do so. It is sacrilege. Other companies use interchangeable components but don't jack up the price more than a few hundred thousand or so. They call them GT2s, Pistas, Superlegerra's etc; we know what they are. Even the "Divo" acknowledges that it is a Chiron clone, because it is.)
Those that have experienced the car up close are universally impressed with the engineering and the way it drives (if not by the way it looks). -
(So you're telling me that all that have experienced the car up close are impressed by it? And especially the looks... OKAY, I'll take your word on that one lol)
But if you disagree perhaps everybody else is wrong? -
(Sure its not the other way around? - By the looks of your numerous posts on this website, i beg to differ on this one)
Unlikely though.
Yes the F1 was magnificent but the world has moved on (not least the legislative restrictions all manufacturers now face). -
It’s the same story at Ferrari, Porsche and Lamborghini. I also love the F40 but I accept that Ferrari have to progress.
Yes, mastering a good manual gearbox is a delight but that is irrelevant for the modern breed of super/hyper cars.
Technological progress and speed is what they are chasing - and it was ever thus.
It’s hopelessly naive to think otherwise. -
("Moved on" - Using the "futurism" argument to suggest that everything new is some how better, when any true driver can see that the modern changes, especially going into full electrification and autonomous, is destroying everything we hold dear about being the DRIVER, who is in 100 percent absolute control of the car at all times - even turbos
I am not only picking on McLaren in this regard - the German "Cartel" (BMW, VAG, MB), and Aston Martin is using MB engines to follow the same formula.
They foolishly engaged in the horsepower war of the 1990's - to present, in sake of - "Technological progress and speed is what they are chasing".
So they like the proverbial hare, ran themselves out of the "Naturally Aspirated" race. Turbos then became the cheap and easy way to keep the horsepower war going, in sake of "progress".
Because they practically run all the auto industry media; turbos where then touted as the "future". But turbos are not conducive to the best aspects of automobile engineering. They negatively affect the engine's sound, response, and overall character. The companies don't care about that, they just want "more power" and speed, which they foolishly use to measure automotive progress.
Now they have to switch to electrification, because again have no way to differentiate, or make their cars seem "fresh". There is only so much times you can tout 3.0 - 4.0 second 0-60 times without it getting monotonous and boring, which it has. "zzzzzzzzzz"
So almost of the cars from the aforementioned companies are overweight, overpowered, turboed, non-manual pigs - because that's progress
Unlike Toyota/Lexus, who wisely did not engage in the horsepower war, so while they suffered at the hands of the shills, being called "old-fashioned" in almost every review for having a naturally aspirated V-8 at the forefront of their performance brand, and the "underpowered" GT-86 which eschews turbos, for the truly authentic driving experience.
I don't know how in heaven they avoid all those "new" legislations....)
If you are trying to make a point I’d advise you to drop the conspiracy theories (which you bring up time and again) and the patronising ‘fanboy’ references. They make you very hard to take seriously. -
( I hope by now you understand a little bit better my overall perspective. I hope you don't try to box my entire line of reasoning into the "conspiracy theorist lane, which you are trying to do; because I backed up my positions with sound logic. Not name callings, and stupid pictures... the mark of fanboys.) Who is truly hard to take seriously after that?
I see you really do, as you are (one) of McLaren's white knights who will try to justify anything they do, without sound logic, so lets proceed shall we...
Out of interest have you driven a Senna, sat in one, or even seen one close up?
Genuine question. -
(No, I have no desire to drive one, because of the "McLaren formula". Maybe if they made one in stick i wouldn't mind giving one a go. I have absolutely no desire to see one up close due to how horrified I am by looking at the images, sorry.)
If you have, then I doubt you’d pursue the line of argument that it’s just a 720S in disguise. -
(I have 2 functioning eyes which lets me know the Senna is a 720s with a power bump and a body kit - not at all worth the asking price - If they named the Senna the 720S "LT" or something I don't think they would have upset anyone. But they chose to desecrate the great Senna's name; worst of all by putting it on that thing.)
Of course there are shared elements - it’s the same story with every manufacturer - but the differences are pretty significant. -
(The differences are not bespoke enough to justify the NAME or Absurd asking price they are milking out of their customers. It is not a brand new model, which is my point; they are using marketing (lying) to make is seem like it is. Most of all changing the name to Senna to do so. It is sacrilege. Other companies use interchangeable components but don't jack up the price more than a few hundred thousand or so. They call them GT2s, Pistas, Superlegerra's etc; we know what they are. Even the "Divo" acknowledges that it is a Chiron clone, because it is.)
Those that have experienced the car up close are universally impressed with the engineering and the way it drives (if not by the way it looks). -
(So you're telling me that all that have experienced the car up close are impressed by it? And especially the looks... OKAY, I'll take your word on that one lol)
But if you disagree perhaps everybody else is wrong? -
(Sure its not the other way around? - By the looks of your numerous posts on this website, i beg to differ on this one)
Unlikely though.
Yes the F1 was magnificent but the world has moved on (not least the legislative restrictions all manufacturers now face). -
It’s the same story at Ferrari, Porsche and Lamborghini. I also love the F40 but I accept that Ferrari have to progress.
Yes, mastering a good manual gearbox is a delight but that is irrelevant for the modern breed of super/hyper cars.
Technological progress and speed is what they are chasing - and it was ever thus.
It’s hopelessly naive to think otherwise. -
("Moved on" - Using the "futurism" argument to suggest that everything new is some how better, when any true driver can see that the modern changes, especially going into full electrification and autonomous, is destroying everything we hold dear about being the DRIVER, who is in 100 percent absolute control of the car at all times - even turbos
I am not only picking on McLaren in this regard - the German "Cartel" (BMW, VAG, MB), and Aston Martin is using MB engines to follow the same formula.
They foolishly engaged in the horsepower war of the 1990's - to present, in sake of - "Technological progress and speed is what they are chasing".
So they like the proverbial hare, ran themselves out of the "Naturally Aspirated" race. Turbos then became the cheap and easy way to keep the horsepower war going, in sake of "progress".
Because they practically run all the auto industry media; turbos where then touted as the "future". But turbos are not conducive to the best aspects of automobile engineering. They negatively affect the engine's sound, response, and overall character. The companies don't care about that, they just want "more power" and speed, which they foolishly use to measure automotive progress.
Now they have to switch to electrification, because again have no way to differentiate, or make their cars seem "fresh". There is only so much times you can tout 3.0 - 4.0 second 0-60 times without it getting monotonous and boring, which it has. "zzzzzzzzzz"
So almost of the cars from the aforementioned companies are overweight, overpowered, turboed, non-manual pigs - because that's progress
Unlike Toyota/Lexus, who wisely did not engage in the horsepower war, so while they suffered at the hands of the shills, being called "old-fashioned" in almost every review for having a naturally aspirated V-8 at the forefront of their performance brand, and the "underpowered" GT-86 which eschews turbos, for the truly authentic driving experience.
I don't know how in heaven they avoid all those "new" legislations....)
If you are trying to make a point I’d advise you to drop the conspiracy theories (which you bring up time and again) and the patronising ‘fanboy’ references. They make you very hard to take seriously. -
( I hope by now you understand a little bit better my overall perspective. I hope you don't try to box my entire line of reasoning into the "conspiracy theorist lane, which you are trying to do; because I backed up my positions with sound logic. Not name callings, and stupid pictures... the mark of fanboys.) Who is truly hard to take seriously after that?
fblm said:
This style of vacuous drip marketing is tedious to say the least. I’m sure it gives the social media “influencers” some more guff to fill their channels with but far from “building excitement” I find myself less and less interested. That’s quite an achievement given what is no doubt an extraordinary and wonderful piece of engineering. I’m beginning to think that the real spiritual successor to the F1 is going to be the Valkyrie.
This.When did revealing a reveal become a thing?
Don Colione said:
Lol I really do not care about any of this; you should be able to tell by my post count.
I see you really do, as you are (one) of McLaren's white knights who will try to justify anything they do, without sound logic, so lets proceed shall we...
Out of interest have you driven a Senna, sat in one, or even seen one close up?
Genuine question. -
(No, I have no desire to drive one, because of the "McLaren formula". Maybe if they made one in stick i wouldn't mind giving one a go. I have absolutely no desire to see one up close due to how horrified I am by looking at the images, sorry.)
If you have, then I doubt you’d pursue the line of argument that it’s just a 720S in disguise. -
(I have 2 functioning eyes which lets me know the Senna is a 720s with a power bump and a body kit - not at all worth the asking price - If they named the Senna the 720S "LT" or something I don't think they would have upset anyone. But they chose to desecrate the great Senna's name; worst of all by putting it on that thing.)
Of course there are shared elements - it’s the same story with every manufacturer - but the differences are pretty significant. -
(The differences are not bespoke enough to justify the NAME or Absurd asking price they are milking out of their customers. It is not a brand new model, which is my point; they are using marketing (lying) to make is seem like it is. Most of all changing the name to Senna to do so. It is sacrilege. Other companies use interchangeable components but don't jack up the price more than a few hundred thousand or so. They call them GT2s, Pistas, Superlegerra's etc; we know what they are. Even the "Divo" acknowledges that it is a Chiron clone, because it is.)
Those that have experienced the car up close are universally impressed with the engineering and the way it drives (if not by the way it looks). -
(So you're telling me that all that have experienced the car up close are impressed by it? And especially the looks... OKAY, I'll take your word on that one lol)
But if you disagree perhaps everybody else is wrong? -
(Sure its not the other way around? - By the looks of your numerous posts on this website, i beg to differ on this one)
Unlikely though.
Yes the F1 was magnificent but the world has moved on (not least the legislative restrictions all manufacturers now face). -
It’s the same story at Ferrari, Porsche and Lamborghini. I also love the F40 but I accept that Ferrari have to progress.
Yes, mastering a good manual gearbox is a delight but that is irrelevant for the modern breed of super/hyper cars.
Technological progress and speed is what they are chasing - and it was ever thus.
It’s hopelessly naive to think otherwise. -
("Moved on" - Using the "futurism" argument to suggest that everything new is some how better, when any true driver can see that the modern changes, especially going into full electrification and autonomous, is destroying everything we hold dear about being the DRIVER, who is in 100 percent absolute control of the car at all times - even turbos
I am not only picking on McLaren in this regard - the German "Cartel" (BMW, VAG, MB), and Aston Martin is using MB engines to follow the same formula.
They foolishly engaged in the horsepower war of the 1990's - to present, in sake of - "Technological progress and speed is what they are chasing".
So they like the proverbial hare, ran themselves out of the "Naturally Aspirated" race. Turbos then became the cheap and easy way to keep the horsepower war going, in sake of "progress".
Because they practically run all the auto industry media; turbos where then touted as the "future". But turbos are not conducive to the best aspects of automobile engineering. They negatively affect the engine's sound, response, and overall character. The companies don't care about that, they just want "more power" and speed, which they foolishly use to measure automotive progress.
Now they have to switch to electrification, because again have no way to differentiate, or make their cars seem "fresh". There is only so much times you can tout 3.0 - 4.0 second 0-60 times without it getting monotonous and boring, which it has. "zzzzzzzzzz"
So almost of the cars from the aforementioned companies are overweight, overpowered, turboed, non-manual pigs - because that's progress
Unlike Toyota/Lexus, who wisely did not engage in the horsepower war, so while they suffered at the hands of the shills, being called "old-fashioned" in almost every review for having a naturally aspirated V-8 at the forefront of their performance brand, and the "underpowered" GT-86 which eschews turbos, for the truly authentic driving experience.
I don't know how in heaven they avoid all those "new" legislations....)
If you are trying to make a point I’d advise you to drop the conspiracy theories (which you bring up time and again) and the patronising ‘fanboy’ references. They make you very hard to take seriously. -
( I hope by now you understand a little bit better my overall perspective. I hope you don't try to box my entire line of reasoning into the "conspiracy theorist lane, which you are trying to do; because I backed up my positions with sound logic. Not name callings, and stupid pictures... the mark of fanboys.) Who is truly hard to take seriously after that?
Oh I understand your perspective all right.I see you really do, as you are (one) of McLaren's white knights who will try to justify anything they do, without sound logic, so lets proceed shall we...
Out of interest have you driven a Senna, sat in one, or even seen one close up?
Genuine question. -
(No, I have no desire to drive one, because of the "McLaren formula". Maybe if they made one in stick i wouldn't mind giving one a go. I have absolutely no desire to see one up close due to how horrified I am by looking at the images, sorry.)
If you have, then I doubt you’d pursue the line of argument that it’s just a 720S in disguise. -
(I have 2 functioning eyes which lets me know the Senna is a 720s with a power bump and a body kit - not at all worth the asking price - If they named the Senna the 720S "LT" or something I don't think they would have upset anyone. But they chose to desecrate the great Senna's name; worst of all by putting it on that thing.)
Of course there are shared elements - it’s the same story with every manufacturer - but the differences are pretty significant. -
(The differences are not bespoke enough to justify the NAME or Absurd asking price they are milking out of their customers. It is not a brand new model, which is my point; they are using marketing (lying) to make is seem like it is. Most of all changing the name to Senna to do so. It is sacrilege. Other companies use interchangeable components but don't jack up the price more than a few hundred thousand or so. They call them GT2s, Pistas, Superlegerra's etc; we know what they are. Even the "Divo" acknowledges that it is a Chiron clone, because it is.)
Those that have experienced the car up close are universally impressed with the engineering and the way it drives (if not by the way it looks). -
(So you're telling me that all that have experienced the car up close are impressed by it? And especially the looks... OKAY, I'll take your word on that one lol)
But if you disagree perhaps everybody else is wrong? -
(Sure its not the other way around? - By the looks of your numerous posts on this website, i beg to differ on this one)
Unlikely though.
Yes the F1 was magnificent but the world has moved on (not least the legislative restrictions all manufacturers now face). -
It’s the same story at Ferrari, Porsche and Lamborghini. I also love the F40 but I accept that Ferrari have to progress.
Yes, mastering a good manual gearbox is a delight but that is irrelevant for the modern breed of super/hyper cars.
Technological progress and speed is what they are chasing - and it was ever thus.
It’s hopelessly naive to think otherwise. -
("Moved on" - Using the "futurism" argument to suggest that everything new is some how better, when any true driver can see that the modern changes, especially going into full electrification and autonomous, is destroying everything we hold dear about being the DRIVER, who is in 100 percent absolute control of the car at all times - even turbos
I am not only picking on McLaren in this regard - the German "Cartel" (BMW, VAG, MB), and Aston Martin is using MB engines to follow the same formula.
They foolishly engaged in the horsepower war of the 1990's - to present, in sake of - "Technological progress and speed is what they are chasing".
So they like the proverbial hare, ran themselves out of the "Naturally Aspirated" race. Turbos then became the cheap and easy way to keep the horsepower war going, in sake of "progress".
Because they practically run all the auto industry media; turbos where then touted as the "future". But turbos are not conducive to the best aspects of automobile engineering. They negatively affect the engine's sound, response, and overall character. The companies don't care about that, they just want "more power" and speed, which they foolishly use to measure automotive progress.
Now they have to switch to electrification, because again have no way to differentiate, or make their cars seem "fresh". There is only so much times you can tout 3.0 - 4.0 second 0-60 times without it getting monotonous and boring, which it has. "zzzzzzzzzz"
So almost of the cars from the aforementioned companies are overweight, overpowered, turboed, non-manual pigs - because that's progress
Unlike Toyota/Lexus, who wisely did not engage in the horsepower war, so while they suffered at the hands of the shills, being called "old-fashioned" in almost every review for having a naturally aspirated V-8 at the forefront of their performance brand, and the "underpowered" GT-86 which eschews turbos, for the truly authentic driving experience.
I don't know how in heaven they avoid all those "new" legislations....)
If you are trying to make a point I’d advise you to drop the conspiracy theories (which you bring up time and again) and the patronising ‘fanboy’ references. They make you very hard to take seriously. -
( I hope by now you understand a little bit better my overall perspective. I hope you don't try to box my entire line of reasoning into the "conspiracy theorist lane, which you are trying to do; because I backed up my positions with sound logic. Not name callings, and stupid pictures... the mark of fanboys.) Who is truly hard to take seriously after that?
Your ‘sound logic’ regarding the Senna is based on zero experience as you have admitted. (Not driven the car, sat in the car, seen it in the flesh, talked to the engineers etc.) . Yet you seem happy to pass judgement, contradicting almost every automotive journalist who has. Moreover you go on to accuse them of being bought.
You also imply that anybody else who is impressed by the car is a moron, hoodwinked by devilish McLaren ‘propaganda’.
Either it’s a global conspiracy or you are deluded.
You also spectacularly failed to comprehend my point that journalists were impressed with the engineering of the Senna even if they did NOT like the styling. (Have another read of my post)
Your lack of factual accuracy is astonishing:
“Other companies use interchangeable components but don't jack up the price more than a few hundred thousand or so.”
????
How about the Porsche Moby Dick tribute - £750k vs £207k for GT2RS
or Ferrari SP1 - £1.4m vs £253k for 812 Superfast
(both in the news this week)
“ Even the "Divo" acknowledges that it is a Chiron clone, because it is”
The Divo is an extra £2m over the price of the Chiron.
I understand that you don’t like the direction the automotive industry is taking - many would sympathise with that - but then you you derail your own argument with factual inaccuracies, sweeping generalisations, and crazy conspiracy theories. As a result you as you come across as incredibly arrogant, patronising, ill-informed and frankly not very bright.
Keep posting by all means but I’ll refrain from reading it or replying.
Edited by Maldini35 on Saturday 13th October 23:54
It's funny because every time the 'twin turbo V8=crap because it's not NA and doesn't rev to 9k' b
ks I don't and have never seen anyone crying that the F40 or worse off because it has a twin turbo V8? In fact many would have one if offered the chance and compared to the mostly unloved F50 with the 4.7L V12 the F40 is by far the most coveted and feted of the two. Could I suggest that a certain someone above just doesn't like McLaren's?
ks I don't and have never seen anyone crying that the F40 or worse off because it has a twin turbo V8? In fact many would have one if offered the chance and compared to the mostly unloved F50 with the 4.7L V12 the F40 is by far the most coveted and feted of the two. Could I suggest that a certain someone above just doesn't like McLaren's?Wow there's a lot of negativity on here. 1000hp+ GT with elegant looks (subjective opinion/prediction based on the teasers) made by a manufacturer that seems to be making cars people really enjoy driving, sounds bloody fantastic to me.
Don Colione said:
I hope you don't try to box my entire line of reasoning into the "conspiracy theorist lane
You've called the entire automotive journalist community shills that are run by Germany car manufacturers, that is litteraly a conspiracy theory. breadvan said:
This.
When did revealing a reveal become a thing?
Agreed. I don't know if Ferrari still release cars like they did 15 years ago, but one thing I loved about them is they showed up at a motor show with a brand new car nobody had seen before, and you could buy it there and then. That's far more interesting. When did revealing a reveal become a thing?
All this teaser rubbish - only serves to make me nod off. And since they're all sold, the marketing only exists to fuel the egos of those buyers - to let everyone else see what they've bought. It's rather sad.
simonbamg said:
GranCab said:
Is that because "zzzzzzzzzzzzzz" is the noise a McLala motor emits ? 
Have you heard the Speedtail?Edited by Maldini35 on Sunday 14th October 13:44
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