RE: VW Up GTI v Mazda 2 GT Sport v Suzuki Swift Sport
Discussion
Klippie said:
Dazza,
Do you know what has happened to the Sport Owners Club I started a thread in the Jap Chat section - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... - hoping someone from the forum would see it and let us know.
I don't actually. I'm not even sure who the mods were. It's been out of action for a couple of weeks now? Do you know what has happened to the Sport Owners Club I started a thread in the Jap Chat section - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... - hoping someone from the forum would see it and let us know.
Perhaps it will never be back up!?
Klippie said:
I own a 1.6 Sport and have driven the new car (didn't like the handling or the steering) as for the Mazda and the VW they don't make the grade either one is too bland and the other is well just look at it.
If you want something with top notch handling and performance save up your pennies and buy a new Fiesta ST, I was blown away how good it was to drive, its in another league really.
I like the Fiesta ST too. But, spec for spec against the Swift Sport... I don't consider that car to be £8,000 better.If you want something with top notch handling and performance save up your pennies and buy a new Fiesta ST, I was blown away how good it was to drive, its in another league really.
As mentioned, I paid £16,499 for my turbo Sport. An ST in similar spec turned out to be more than £24k.
The ST is only slightly faster according to Parkers... and only the most capable of drivers among us would really be able to exploit the extra ability in the ST.
I consider the Swift Sport to be more than good enough for a great drive.
AlexC1981 said:
The Abath 595 would surely blow all these out of the water at this price point?
Apparently not. The Swift Sport is 2.5 seconds faster a lap according to these guys...https://youtu.be/P6ElrlAK0AM
rb_89 said:
I owned a 1.3 mazda 2 with the sporty body kit version on from new in 2009, was a fantastic little car. Even thoigh it only had 84hp on tap, you could ring it's neck every time and it had great balanced handling.
I got the dealer optioned eibach springs and sebring exhaust which made it more fun to drive than the stock car, and with the 30mm springs made it feel less floaty at motorway speeds. Ended up shredding tyres every 6 months due to how fun it was to drive, but it was a great car.
Then switched to the zc32s swift sport in 2014, which was also a great little car with more oopmh than the mazda. The mazda still felt slicker I reckon though in the way it drove day to day, but the extra 50 hp in the swift was fun.
I'm under no illusion that mazda 2s are very underrated little cars, and it's a shame you don't see more on the road (at least where I live!) I've moved onto bigger, fast machinery now but those two little cars provided many years of fun motoring. You don't always need massive power to have daily fun.
Don't underrated the new swift, they dyno at 150somwthing stock and CTC performance are busy making mods for the new swift, aiming for the 200ps mark with the <1000 kg weight, should be a fiesta st beater (probably needs an lsd though at that point..)
According to Mitsubishi (who make the turbo for the new Swift Sport), the output of the Swift Sport's K14C engine is 120kW.I got the dealer optioned eibach springs and sebring exhaust which made it more fun to drive than the stock car, and with the 30mm springs made it feel less floaty at motorway speeds. Ended up shredding tyres every 6 months due to how fun it was to drive, but it was a great car.
Then switched to the zc32s swift sport in 2014, which was also a great little car with more oopmh than the mazda. The mazda still felt slicker I reckon though in the way it drove day to day, but the extra 50 hp in the swift was fun.
I'm under no illusion that mazda 2s are very underrated little cars, and it's a shame you don't see more on the road (at least where I live!) I've moved onto bigger, fast machinery now but those two little cars provided many years of fun motoring. You don't always need massive power to have daily fun.
Don't underrated the new swift, they dyno at 150somwthing stock and CTC performance are busy making mods for the new swift, aiming for the 200ps mark with the <1000 kg weight, should be a fiesta st beater (probably needs an lsd though at that point..)
That's 163 HP.
DazzaSport said:
AlexC1981 said:
The Abath 595 would surely blow all these out of the water at this price point?
Apparently not. The Swift Sport is 2.5 seconds faster a lap according to these guys...https://youtu.be/P6ElrlAK0AM
ecsrobin said:
I’m 6’3” and fit fine in a 500/biposto and I’m not the tallest 500 PH owner so surprised about the dwarf comment.
I can't fit comfortably in a 500/Ka but there's enough room in a Swift. Panda is borderline.I can't fit in a C1/Aygo/108 but there's enough room in an Up or Viva.
500 vs Up would force me to choose Up purely on being able to fit in it.
Everybody has slightly different lengths of shins, thighs, torso and arms which affect how we get on with different cars.
Ron99 said:
ecsrobin said:
I’m 6’3” and fit fine in a 500/biposto and I’m not the tallest 500 PH owner so surprised about the dwarf comment.
I can't fit comfortably in a 500/Ka but there's enough room in a Swift. Panda is borderline.I can't fit in a C1/Aygo/108 but there's enough room in an Up or Viva.
500 vs Up would force me to choose Up purely on being able to fit in it.
Everybody has slightly different lengths of shins, thighs, torso and arms which affect how we get on with different cars.
Klippie said:
Dazza,
Do you know what has happened to the Sport Owners Club I started a thread in the Jap Chat section - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... - hoping someone from the forum would see it and let us know.
I don't know what's happened to the forum either. It seems to have been down for over a week now Do you know what has happened to the Sport Owners Club I started a thread in the Jap Chat section - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... - hoping someone from the forum would see it and let us know.
ecsrobin said:
DazzaSport said:
AlexC1981 said:
The Abath 595 would surely blow all these out of the water at this price point?
Apparently not. The Swift Sport is 2.5 seconds faster a lap according to these guys...https://youtu.be/P6ElrlAK0AM
I long back to these type of cars, and if I could get by with the size of the best car of this class (or the Fiesta ST, have to test drive them), I would probably swap my 250hp/tonne estate in a blink of an eye. Again.
Still remember my driving instructor now 20 years ago, multiple rally champion and I expected him to drive a Impreza or so, but no, it was a 100hp sub 1 tonne jap hatch. Much more fun on the road he said for someone who, like most I suppose but even more, couldn't afford to lose his license. To my experience, still true today.
Found this...
The Smoking Tire..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6DV80iRDJ8&li...
"You can just cane the snot out of this thing all the time". Love his style
That's the real difference between these and stuff like the Fiesta ST, though.
The Smoking Tire..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6DV80iRDJ8&li...
"You can just cane the snot out of this thing all the time". Love his style
That's the real difference between these and stuff like the Fiesta ST, though.
Johnnytheboy said:
Article said:
The Up GTI is a car that goes fast - comfortably brisker than the Mazda...
SPECIFICATION - VOLKSWAGEN UP GTI
0-62mph: 8.8sec
Top speed: 122mph
SPECIFICATION - MAZDA 2 GT SPORT NAV+
0-62mph: 8.7sec
Top speed: 124mph
SPECIFICATION - VOLKSWAGEN UP GTI
0-62mph: 8.8sec
Top speed: 122mph
SPECIFICATION - MAZDA 2 GT SPORT NAV+
0-62mph: 8.7sec
Top speed: 124mph
the one that drives like a derv is the faster one.
the faster one that drives like a sporty car is too expensive.
Johnnytheboy said:
Article said:
The Up GTI is a car that goes fast - comfortably brisker than the Mazda...
SPECIFICATION - VOLKSWAGEN UP GTI
0-62mph: 8.8sec
Top speed: 122mph
SPECIFICATION - MAZDA 2 GT SPORT NAV+
0-62mph: 8.7sec
Top speed: 124mph
SPECIFICATION - VOLKSWAGEN UP GTI
0-62mph: 8.8sec
Top speed: 122mph
SPECIFICATION - MAZDA 2 GT SPORT NAV+
0-62mph: 8.7sec
Top speed: 124mph
However, a turbo does make everyday driving less of a chore at medium speeds in hilly terrain.
I keep reading Up! GTI group tests just to see the outcome. It seems the reviewers always find some way of making it win even though it clearly isn't the best car there.
There are so many contradictory points in this review that its barely worth paying attention to (including the fact that you state the Up never feels fast yet it's allegedly substantially faster than the mazda. Even though the figures prove it's actually the slowest on test to 60, which none of these cars are ever going to be pushed past realistically).
You also seem to spend more time comparing the swift to the previous version and not the cars on test which seems unfair.
How can a car (the VW) in this sector possibly win if:
''Changing gear is a vague and indistinct process, the steering wheel (which is too large, and too far away) never offers up any genuine sense of connection, and the ride is too uneven: new springs have made the Up stiffer, but without the dampers to support it there's still float and frustration when you really start to push.''
The above statement (your words not mine) should be the final nail in the coffin for any car supposedly classed as a 'fun, engaging, small hot hatch'.
Price point is important yes. However, the cheaper car being slower, more compact and worse to drive isn't surprising.
And before anyone asks if i've driven one, no I haven't yet. I have however driven a standard 1.0 Up!
There are so many contradictory points in this review that its barely worth paying attention to (including the fact that you state the Up never feels fast yet it's allegedly substantially faster than the mazda. Even though the figures prove it's actually the slowest on test to 60, which none of these cars are ever going to be pushed past realistically).
You also seem to spend more time comparing the swift to the previous version and not the cars on test which seems unfair.
How can a car (the VW) in this sector possibly win if:
''Changing gear is a vague and indistinct process, the steering wheel (which is too large, and too far away) never offers up any genuine sense of connection, and the ride is too uneven: new springs have made the Up stiffer, but without the dampers to support it there's still float and frustration when you really start to push.''
The above statement (your words not mine) should be the final nail in the coffin for any car supposedly classed as a 'fun, engaging, small hot hatch'.
Price point is important yes. However, the cheaper car being slower, more compact and worse to drive isn't surprising.
And before anyone asks if i've driven one, no I haven't yet. I have however driven a standard 1.0 Up!
Ruffy94 said:
I keep reading Up! GTI group tests just to see the outcome. It seems the reviewers always find some way of making it win even though it clearly isn't the best car there.
There are so many contradictory points in this review that its barely worth paying attention to (including the fact that you state the Up never feels fast yet it's allegedly substantially faster than the mazda. Even though the figures prove it's actually the slowest on test to 60, which none of these cars are ever going to be pushed past realistically).
You also seem to spend more time comparing the swift to the previous version and not the cars on test which seems unfair.
How can a car (the VW) in this sector possibly win if:
''Changing gear is a vague and indistinct process, the steering wheel (which is too large, and too far away) never offers up any genuine sense of connection, and the ride is too uneven: new springs have made the Up stiffer, but without the dampers to support it there's still float and frustration when you really start to push.''
The above statement (your words not mine) should be the final nail in the coffin for any car supposedly classed as a 'fun, engaging, small hot hatch'.
Price point is important yes. However, the cheaper car being slower, more compact and worse to drive isn't surprising.
And before anyone asks if i've driven one, no I haven't yet. I have however driven a standard 1.0 Up!
I agree. The bias towards the 'baby GTI' is unreal. So many reviews pick at the faults - and yet the car 'wins'. There are so many contradictory points in this review that its barely worth paying attention to (including the fact that you state the Up never feels fast yet it's allegedly substantially faster than the mazda. Even though the figures prove it's actually the slowest on test to 60, which none of these cars are ever going to be pushed past realistically).
You also seem to spend more time comparing the swift to the previous version and not the cars on test which seems unfair.
How can a car (the VW) in this sector possibly win if:
''Changing gear is a vague and indistinct process, the steering wheel (which is too large, and too far away) never offers up any genuine sense of connection, and the ride is too uneven: new springs have made the Up stiffer, but without the dampers to support it there's still float and frustration when you really start to push.''
The above statement (your words not mine) should be the final nail in the coffin for any car supposedly classed as a 'fun, engaging, small hot hatch'.
Price point is important yes. However, the cheaper car being slower, more compact and worse to drive isn't surprising.
And before anyone asks if i've driven one, no I haven't yet. I have however driven a standard 1.0 Up!
Apart from Top Gear magazine. They took the new Swift Sport and Up! GTI to Wales. They were in favour of the Swift Sport. They basically suggested that the Swift Sport was in a different league to the Up! GTI.
Ruffy94 said:
I keep reading Up! GTI group tests just to see the outcome. It seems the reviewers always find some way of making it win even though it clearly isn't the best car there.
There are so many contradictory points in this review that its barely worth paying attention to (including the fact that you state the Up never feels fast yet it's allegedly substantially faster than the mazda. Even though the figures prove it's actually the slowest on test to 60, which none of these cars are ever going to be pushed past realistically).
You also seem to spend more time comparing the swift to the previous version and not the cars on test which seems unfair.
How can a car (the VW) in this sector possibly win if:
''Changing gear is a vague and indistinct process, the steering wheel (which is too large, and too far away) never offers up any genuine sense of connection, and the ride is too uneven: new springs have made the Up stiffer, but without the dampers to support it there's still float and frustration when you really start to push.''
The above statement (your words not mine) should be the final nail in the coffin for any car supposedly classed as a 'fun, engaging, small hot hatch'.
Price point is important yes. However, the cheaper car being slower, more compact and worse to drive isn't surprising.
And before anyone asks if i've driven one, no I haven't yet. I have however driven a standard 1.0 Up!
I'm glad I'm not the only one that's been scratching my head at this and also agree on the Swift comparison to it's previous version than the competitors in question.There are so many contradictory points in this review that its barely worth paying attention to (including the fact that you state the Up never feels fast yet it's allegedly substantially faster than the mazda. Even though the figures prove it's actually the slowest on test to 60, which none of these cars are ever going to be pushed past realistically).
You also seem to spend more time comparing the swift to the previous version and not the cars on test which seems unfair.
How can a car (the VW) in this sector possibly win if:
''Changing gear is a vague and indistinct process, the steering wheel (which is too large, and too far away) never offers up any genuine sense of connection, and the ride is too uneven: new springs have made the Up stiffer, but without the dampers to support it there's still float and frustration when you really start to push.''
The above statement (your words not mine) should be the final nail in the coffin for any car supposedly classed as a 'fun, engaging, small hot hatch'.
Price point is important yes. However, the cheaper car being slower, more compact and worse to drive isn't surprising.
And before anyone asks if i've driven one, no I haven't yet. I have however driven a standard 1.0 Up!
I'd have the Swift out of these 3. But I'd like to also see a Mini, Corsa GSi or Adam S (only £800 more than these comparisons) and an Abarth 595 thrown into the mix for a full out comparison that doesn't have the bizarre contradictions that Ruffy94 has pointed out.
my take away from these recent reviews of the warm hatch sector is that a clear fun winner hasn't emerged like it does sometimes.
The Swift has grown up, too much?. The Up is kind of good and well packaged, very sensible. The Mazda doesn't look sexy and can't seem to push passed that (though it reads like it might be the best for me). Limits of availability mean that not all contenders are reviewed in any magazine and that skewed reasons are given as to why only 3 or 4 given cars are compared. If i were in the market i'd set about test driving a few before even attempting any shortlist.
interesting segment thesedays though.
The Swift has grown up, too much?. The Up is kind of good and well packaged, very sensible. The Mazda doesn't look sexy and can't seem to push passed that (though it reads like it might be the best for me). Limits of availability mean that not all contenders are reviewed in any magazine and that skewed reasons are given as to why only 3 or 4 given cars are compared. If i were in the market i'd set about test driving a few before even attempting any shortlist.
interesting segment thesedays though.
Zygot said:
If only the Mazda had the new MX5 1.5. engine. Guess the market research shows it wouldn't sell in the UK in sufficient numbers to make it worthwhile. Shame really as I bet that would be a fun thing to drive. Mazda are bucking the trend by sticking with a naturally aspirated engine still and can build one that doesn't self destruct after a couple of years.
But could I please swap the Apple Carplay for all round disc brakes on the options list.
The 1.5 in the Mazda 2 is the same as the 1.5 in the MX-5 ND But could I please swap the Apple Carplay for all round disc brakes on the options list.
Exhaust system and cats are a bit different but it has the potential for a big increase from the 115 via a BBR map, to at least 140 I would imagine - with a much higher rev limit too (7800 I think)
DazzaSport said:
Ruffy94 said:
I keep reading Up! GTI group tests just to see the outcome. It seems the reviewers always find some way of making it win even though it clearly isn't the best car there.
There are so many contradictory points in this review that its barely worth paying attention to (including the fact that you state the Up never feels fast yet it's allegedly substantially faster than the mazda. Even though the figures prove it's actually the slowest on test to 60, which none of these cars are ever going to be pushed past realistically).
You also seem to spend more time comparing the swift to the previous version and not the cars on test which seems unfair.
How can a car (the VW) in this sector possibly win if:
''Changing gear is a vague and indistinct process, the steering wheel (which is too large, and too far away) never offers up any genuine sense of connection, and the ride is too uneven: new springs have made the Up stiffer, but without the dampers to support it there's still float and frustration when you really start to push.''
The above statement (your words not mine) should be the final nail in the coffin for any car supposedly classed as a 'fun, engaging, small hot hatch'.
Price point is important yes. However, the cheaper car being slower, more compact and worse to drive isn't surprising.
And before anyone asks if i've driven one, no I haven't yet. I have however driven a standard 1.0 Up!
I agree. The bias towards the 'baby GTI' is unreal. So many reviews pick at the faults - and yet the car 'wins'. There are so many contradictory points in this review that its barely worth paying attention to (including the fact that you state the Up never feels fast yet it's allegedly substantially faster than the mazda. Even though the figures prove it's actually the slowest on test to 60, which none of these cars are ever going to be pushed past realistically).
You also seem to spend more time comparing the swift to the previous version and not the cars on test which seems unfair.
How can a car (the VW) in this sector possibly win if:
''Changing gear is a vague and indistinct process, the steering wheel (which is too large, and too far away) never offers up any genuine sense of connection, and the ride is too uneven: new springs have made the Up stiffer, but without the dampers to support it there's still float and frustration when you really start to push.''
The above statement (your words not mine) should be the final nail in the coffin for any car supposedly classed as a 'fun, engaging, small hot hatch'.
Price point is important yes. However, the cheaper car being slower, more compact and worse to drive isn't surprising.
And before anyone asks if i've driven one, no I haven't yet. I have however driven a standard 1.0 Up!
Apart from Top Gear magazine. They took the new Swift Sport and Up! GTI to Wales. They were in favour of the Swift Sport. They basically suggested that the Swift Sport was in a different league to the Up! GTI.
Maybe we just need to get a load of PH members together with their cars to do an honest test?
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