RE: Ariel Atom 4 vs. Caterham Seven 620S

[p1stonhead]

phil4 said:

likesachange said:

Whats peoples thoughts on current values... I am in the market for a 310 3.5..
Considering the A4 is comparable to a 3.5R out of the box (even quicker and much better many say who have driven it) at £40k Some of the asking prices of 10 year old models comical. I know its there pride and joy and many just look at others for sale and price accordingly (but the "others" arent selling)
I mean theres an example over 10 years old for well over 35k ?!? I mean i bought a similar spec but newer model for 23k in 2014!

A lot well depend on the options. For example the A4 at 40K is the bare car, not the one you've seen road tested, nor the one in this review. If anything like the previous cars, everything is an optional extra, even the little plastic windscreen. I doubt the 40K even includes the initial IVA, road tax etc.

I'd expect a "normal" A4 spec, if such exists to be much closer to 50K for this new car.

The other point on older model prices, is that the waiting list for the new car is, I've heard, over 2 years. And you can't buy a new 3.5 or 3.5R either. Many people would rather have an Atom now, rather than nothing for 2 or more years.

It’s currently 2 years. I rang to put a deposit (it’s £3k) down but can’t be arsed waiting that long.

Options list isn’t even released yet. Should be out any day I’m told.

[phil4]

p1stonhead said:

It’s currently 2 years. I rang to put a deposit (it’s £3k) down but can’t be arsed waiting that long.

One of the suggested routes, is to put the deposit down, and then buy a second hand Atom while waiting. As has already been suggested due to the long wait, and price increases, the older cars tend to hold their value quite well, so you can often sell after a few years for close to what you paid (obviously providing you look after it, service it, and don't do too many miles, and even then nothing is guaranteed).

Clearly there are other cars out there though.

[likesachange]

phil4 said:

A lot well depend on the options. For example the A4 at 40K is the bare car, not the one you've seen road tested, nor the one in this review. If anything like the previous cars, everything is an optional extra, even the little plastic windscreen. I doubt the 40K even includes the initial IVA, road tax etc.

I'd expect a "normal" A4 spec, if such exists to be much closer to 50K for this new car.

The other point on older model prices, is that the waiting list for the new car is, I've heard, over 2 years. And you can't buy a new 3.5 or 3.5R either. Many people would rather have an Atom now, rather than nothing for 2 or more years.

yes I appreciate the options are what brought the earlier atoms prices up, but am sure ive even seen the Atom guys say that the base 4 is a great car to start with having bigger brakes, LSD and the powerful engine all from the off. So in fact if you were to buy an earlier Atom and spec LSD and the charger and bigger brakes you still wouldnt be at the level of performance that the base 4 offers.. not to mention a new car.

[phil4]

likesachange said:

yes I appreciate the options are what brought the earlier atoms prices up, but am sure ive even seen the Atom guys say that the base 4 is a great car to start with having bigger brakes, LSD and the powerful engine all from the off. So in fact if you were to buy an earlier Atom and spec LSD and the charger and bigger brakes you still wouldnt be at the level of performance that the base 4 offers.. not to mention a new car.

I agree, that if you bought a 3.5 310 back a few years ago, it'd have cost £38,000 or thereabouts on the road. So that's pretty much what the Atom 4 is. I've seen nothing to suggest the AP Racing brakes fitted to the demo car are standard (the carbon fibre wheels definitely aren't), but I might be wrong.

But even so I wouldn't have said the performance of the new car is "on another level" or similar. The old 3.5 310 is a bonkers fast car. The new A4 is probably even more bonkers, but the old car was hardly slow.

I guess it depends on what you define as "performance" level. This new car isn't going to wipe another second of the old one's 0-60. It won't pull another 1G round corners, and won't stop 100ft short. Yes, it'll almost certainly lap a racetrack a few seconds quicker, but it'll be a few seconds, and the reality is it'll depend on the driver anyway.

As such with a couple of year delay until you could buy a new A4, I wouldn't suggest that buying a used and almost as expensive 3.5 310 is going to give you a slow car. It'll still be a lot of fun and very fast.

[p1stonhead]

Honestly, I think unless you are consistently lapping the same track over and over trying to bring times down, no one 'normal' will be anything but staggered by the 310 on track or road.

A step up to the A4 may be noticable, but the 310 is so insane that its hardly going to matter any more if the new one is objectively a bit faster or more capable.

[phil4]

p1stonhead said:

Honestly, I think unless you are consistently lapping the same track over and over trying to bring times down, no one 'normal' will be anything but staggered by the 310 on track or road.

A step up to the A4 may be noticable, but the 310 is so insane that its hardly going to matter any more if the new one is objectively a bit faster or more capable.

That's my point put much more nicely. Thanks

[likesachange]

A few seconds a lap is quite a difference in the speeds these cars can get round tracks tbh. A noticeable improvement.
But it's also the road holding which the earlier atoms (certainly mine) struggled with unless you spend 5k on Ohlins ... again from all reports the A4 is so much better.

I'm not trying to belittle the earlier atoms. I've had one and fancy another! Fantastic car.

I will stick to my guns and believe that people will struggle to sell 5-6yr old atoms at new prices. Unless very high spec
I got offered a 66plate one 2 weeks ago with large spec including ohlins for 35k but was n/a so I knocked it back for reference.

I also don't see why current owners should be disappointed that they sell there 3-4yr old car and get new one with only having to pay 5k in exchange plus options for a brand new model?

[anonymous-user]

The new one IMO will not be £40K. It’ll be at least 45K and more like 55K with the options needed to make it desirable on the market. No doubt when mine is ready to specify they’ll have the R version, I’m guessing 75K, that’s just how it is. Therefore my 3.5 310 with all the options should remain a good used buy and tbh, it’s as ballistic now as it was when I purchased. Sounds better than the 4 and has a character which is absolutely lost with the new car. You pay your money and make your choice. Life with any Atom is a better place to be

[likesachange]

yonex said:

The new one IMO will not be £40K. It’ll be at least 45K and more like 55K with the options needed to make it desirable on the market. No doubt when mine is ready to specify they’ll have the R version, I’m guessing 75K, that’s just how it is. Therefore my 3.5 310 with all the options should remain a good used buy and tbh, it’s as ballistic now as it was when I purchased. Sounds better than the 4 and has a character which is absolutely lost with the new car. You pay your money and make your choice. Life with any Atom is a better place to be

I get what you guys are saying... But until we know final spec sheet and prices we don't know.
I'd imagine 45k will be the starting point for most.
But if like me and some could only just stretch to 40k
What would they rather have ... a base brand new immaculate unmarked freshly built untouched atom 4 car ?
or a 4yr old car with a few options ?
Bearing in mind the LSD and 320bhp is standard on the 4 along with twin single seats and TC and possibly other items ...

Either way all atoms are Fab and I hope I can find the right car at the right price.

[Fastlane]

likesachange said:

I get what you guys are saying... But until we know final spec sheet and prices we don't know.
I'd imagine 45k will be the starting point for most.
But if like me and some could only just stretch to 40k
What would they rather have ... a base brand new immaculate unmarked freshly built untouched atom 4 car ?
or a 4yr old car with a few options ?
Bearing in mind the LSD and 320bhp is standard on the 4 along with twin single seats and TC and possibly other items ...

Either way all atoms are Fab and I hope I can find the right car at the right price.

I had this dilemma last month. I decided that I couldn't wait 2 years for an Atom 4 so started looking for supercharged 3 as I "only" wanted to spend £35k (which is about right for an 245 3.5 with a good spec, whilst 310s tend to start at £40k). I ended up with a highly spec'd 3 which has around £20k of options, a full Ariel factory service history and a "huge" mileage of 16k! A similar spec'd 4 would be probably be nearer to £55-£60k, so I have "saved" £20k+. Given the excellent residuals, I figure I could "upgrade" to a 4 in a few years when they start appearing on the second hand market.

Steve Sutcliffe figured the Atom 3 300 to 100 in 6.07 seconds back in 2007, so I don't feel short changed in any way....see here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FeiPk0fOQk