RE: BMW M5 Competition: UK Drive
Discussion
rtz62 said:
Anyone like to answer this one for me re the M5;
in Chesterfield / surrounding area there are at least 2, if not more M5s BEING USED AS PRIVATE HIRE VEHICLES...
Explain that to me, it surely cant make sense, the running costs including low mpg and servicing alone would surely make any sensible / law-abiding person think twice?
Perhaps thats it, the law-abiding bit...
Getting £18,000 back in vat immediately probably makes it worth registering it. in Chesterfield / surrounding area there are at least 2, if not more M5s BEING USED AS PRIVATE HIRE VEHICLES...
Explain that to me, it surely cant make sense, the running costs including low mpg and servicing alone would surely make any sensible / law-abiding person think twice?
Perhaps thats it, the law-abiding bit...
redroadster said:
Don't pull up next to a Tesla s if u think it's quick be seeing you .??
There is a problem with the Tesla though.........you look like a complete twunt. redroadster said:
Don't pull up next to a Tesla s if u think it's quick be seeing you .??
A Tesla P100D will potentially get to 60 a up to a second quicker, mainly down to the advantages of electric motors, however, once rolling the BMW will catch up and they both do 0-124 mph (200 kmh) in about 10.8 seconds, so the Tesla is marginally quicker in a full bore acceleration run but there realistically wont be that much in it as speeds rise, its the same with supercars, especially 2wd ones, the Tesla blasts away and but then gets reeled in and passed.The Tesla is very, very rapid, have been in a couple and they are amazing but there is more to it than just straight line speed, and the P100D is more than 30 grand dearer, seems very expensive for a really plush mobility scooter
Agree with the tesla bit, both rapid and a twunt, but you can see why they are sooo quick off the mark with minimal mechanic parts to take up the slack and motors giving higher current the more they need. Makes pumping fuel through injectors to a piston to be burnt to expel gases to turn a turbo before the gearbox, clutch blah blah blah look primative .
Ps: the slow bloke in the new m5 could of drove around in a couple of year old 318d slower than the speed limit then bought a dodge demon to show a middle finger to the world. I know the plastics arnt the same bore bore bore........
Even if he had given the m5 a quick squirt away from the round about...
Should have taken the badge off it then I wouldn't of known because apart from the tail pipes looks very boring.
Ps: the slow bloke in the new m5 could of drove around in a couple of year old 318d slower than the speed limit then bought a dodge demon to show a middle finger to the world. I know the plastics arnt the same bore bore bore........
Even if he had given the m5 a quick squirt away from the round about...
Should have taken the badge off it then I wouldn't of known because apart from the tail pipes looks very boring.
wiggers said:
Agree with the tesla bit, both rapid and a twunt, but you can see why they are sooo quick off the mark with minimal mechanic parts to take up the slack and motors giving higher current the more they need. Makes pumping fuel through injectors to a piston to be burnt to expel gases to turn a turbo before the gearbox, clutch blah blah blah look primative .
Ps: the slow bloke in the new m5 could [b]have] drove around in a couple of year old 318d slower than the speed limit then bought a dodge demon to show a middle finger to the world. I know the plastics arnt the same bore bore bore........
Even if he had given the m5 a quick squirt away from the round about...
Should have taken the badge off it then I wouldn't [b]have] known because apart from the tail pipes looks very boring.
Sorry, it's not could/wouldn't of, it's have. Sorry, irks me more than it should Ps: the slow bloke in the new m5 could [b]have] drove around in a couple of year old 318d slower than the speed limit then bought a dodge demon to show a middle finger to the world. I know the plastics arnt the same bore bore bore........
Even if he had given the m5 a quick squirt away from the round about...
Should have taken the badge off it then I wouldn't [b]have] known because apart from the tail pipes looks very boring.
Walter Sobchak said:
I have to admit I’m not a BMW fan at all, the only very notable exceptions being the M5 and the S1000RR, this M5 hasn’t changed that I love it!, and like another poster said earlier I love how it looks so subtle, although if I was going to spend £100k on a super saloon I’d probably still go for the E63.
Not sure the Panamera Turbo actually qualifies for being in the £100k bracket but I’d have one of them over this too.
Sadly I’m not going to be making this choice any time soon
I've ridden the S1000RR, and its great (though the lack of counterbalancer makes it sound rougher than my fav sounding I4 bike: the GSXR1000), but imho the best BMW product is the M2. I'm not a fan of automatic transmissions in performance cars, but when I drove the M2 auto I didn't wish for a manual at all. Its very small, nimble, it sounds good (even if engine noise is pumped in), and its not a big heavy porker like all the other M's. Not sure the Panamera Turbo actually qualifies for being in the £100k bracket but I’d have one of them over this too.
Sadly I’m not going to be making this choice any time soon
E65Ross said:
Sorry, it's not could/wouldn't of, it's have. Sorry, irks me more than it should
That's fine mate. Happy with math ( black or white. Correct of wrong) . Can fix things easily. Electrical, pneumatic, hydraulic, mechanical or electronics BUT I don't understand English litrature, never have. How can effluent and affluent have such opposite meaning due to one letter?
The graphics are great but the soundtrack is rather monotone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQV3TGDZo2U
When I was small, I thought that one day computer graphics would get better and better and games would feel more like I was really driving a car. I didn't expect it to happen the other way around. Phenomenal car, obviously, but that engine could just be an electric motor. It has all the passion of an F1 car, and all the sexual allure of B. Ecclestone.
Obviously I still want one, but only an estate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQV3TGDZo2U
When I was small, I thought that one day computer graphics would get better and better and games would feel more like I was really driving a car. I didn't expect it to happen the other way around. Phenomenal car, obviously, but that engine could just be an electric motor. It has all the passion of an F1 car, and all the sexual allure of B. Ecclestone.
Obviously I still want one, but only an estate.
J4CKO said:
I love the fact it exists but it just seems at odds with motoring in the UK nowadays, suppose you dont have to use it but driving it like that must be an exercise in patience and frustration
Got to agree with you and I love enthusiastic driving.There just aren't the quality of roads, available space on them or places where you don't feel big brother is watching, to really get any benefit from this kind of car in the UK now. Don't tell me you can track it, because this isn't built for tracks, it's a 'bahnstormer and we don't have anywhere like that here. The Government and the snowflakes don't want powerful cars tearing up the countryside any more.
Sad times for us all I tell thee.
WCZ said:
the game done changed
the M6 was over £100k several years ago
The thing is with BMW pricing that discounts at the top end make these price-list numbers meaningless. Helping my brother buy an 435i he was offered a deal on a M4 and in the blink of an eye an incoming M6 was also suggested with a discount so large you could have bought a nicely specced ex-demo M135i with the money. I'm sure I have the specifics somewhere but less than £70k with a low interest PCP on top. So £25k discount and that was new, not pre-reg. BMW have been pushing prices towards £100k but buyers simply don't seem to believe that £100k is where they should be in my experience. the M6 was over £100k several years ago
Real curbweight measured by magazines with whatever equipment the cars came with, and their power as more power has a weight penalty in different ways:
M5 E34 3.8: 1728kg - 340hp
M5 E39: 1828kg - 400hp
M5 E60: 1877kg - 507hp
M5 F10: 1965kg - 560hp
M5 F90 Comp: 1940kg - 625hp
Not exactly light, but not dead heavy either, esp compared to conpetitors...
E63s 4matic+: 2105kg - 612hp
Panamera Turbo: 2125kg - 550hp
And a mention for the M2 competition:
1650kg - 410hp.
That is relatively heavier really, being much smaller, 2wd, 2 cyl less and 215hp down on power...
M5 E34 3.8: 1728kg - 340hp
M5 E39: 1828kg - 400hp
M5 E60: 1877kg - 507hp
M5 F10: 1965kg - 560hp
M5 F90 Comp: 1940kg - 625hp
Not exactly light, but not dead heavy either, esp compared to conpetitors...
E63s 4matic+: 2105kg - 612hp
Panamera Turbo: 2125kg - 550hp
And a mention for the M2 competition:
1650kg - 410hp.
That is relatively heavier really, being much smaller, 2wd, 2 cyl less and 215hp down on power...
cookie1600 said:
J4CKO said:
I love the fact it exists but it just seems at odds with motoring in the UK nowadays, suppose you dont have to use it but driving it like that must be an exercise in patience and frustration
Got to agree with you and I love enthusiastic driving.There just aren't the quality of roads, available space on them or places where you don't feel big brother is watching, to really get any benefit from this kind of car in the UK now. Don't tell me you can track it, because this isn't built for tracks, it's a 'bahnstormer and we don't have anywhere like that here. The Government and the snowflakes don't want powerful cars tearing up the countryside any more.
Sad times for us all I tell thee.
It does need an Autobahn to come into its element, I had a bit V8 Merc with just not quite two thirds of the power and it was so easy to stray into ban territory, a quick flex of the right foot at 70 and you are doing 120 mph, no fuss.
I know supercars are as fast and faster but they kind of have a point other than going fast, looking distinctive, and thought these look of for a 5 series, they sort of blend in.
I reckon they have a niche market, Powerfully Built company director types, does a lot of miles in all weathers, doesnt care about tax, depreciation or fuel and has a bit of restraint but knows where they can let it rip for a few seconds, perhaps travels to Germany.
While I agree that cars like these aren’t track day cars in the pure sense of the term they are a lot of fun to take on a track.
I did two days at Bedford and two at Silverstone in my F10 M5 and it was huge fun.
Need to treat the brakes with care and a change of pads for something like Pagid RS29s is sensible.
I know plenty of others who have done likewise.
I did two days at Bedford and two at Silverstone in my F10 M5 and it was huge fun.
Need to treat the brakes with care and a change of pads for something like Pagid RS29s is sensible.
I know plenty of others who have done likewise.
So, premium SUVs are pointless because they don’t have a winch or knobbly tyres and aren’t often seen at Everest base camps. Premium super saloons are pointless because they don’t run slick tyres or downforce and no one takes them racing.
In conclusion, all cars are pointless. We may as well shut up shop and go home
In conclusion, all cars are pointless. We may as well shut up shop and go home
I owned an E39 M5 for 7 years, having taken it on the autobahns, on the nurburgring, tracked in Scotland where I live and used it as a daily driver, including winter. I have driven the original E28 M5 a few times, test drive the E60 V10 M5 and I am the current owner of an F10 M5 over the last 4 years. It too has been on track and gets used for the daily commute and also a lot of B-road driving since I live within easy access of the cairngorm mountain range. Safe to say I really like M5's!
I drove the current F90 after an extended 5 hour test drive recently. I am quite keen to see how the competition drives if the dealer gets a demonstrator. I bought both M5's after the first poor owner took a considerable hit in depreciation. They can lose a lot and I picked up my F10 just before the manufacturers 3 year warranty was expiring, buying it from BMW they extended it by a year. I paid less than half the new price + options. It really becomes a viable purchase at that point.
To address some of the points made already (based on the F90 M5 not the competition).
1) Its too fast for the roads - Its not un-driveable, far from it and it can even put its power down in rear wheel drive mode very effectively. Its the driver that chooses the speed anyway, its not the fault of the car, a 10 year old 330d would get you jail time very quickly, you still have to choose to do it. I dont see it as an argument, the E39 M5 could get you in trouble stupidly quick if you were to not assess the road, your surroundings etc, and be caught from an undercover car / camera. The only car that I have driven on the road that starts to make you question if it is too fast was the Mclaren 720s, that is next level quick.
2) Its too heavy and big - Its not really, a previous post showed the weight differences over the generations and also its competitors, its doing not too bad. Maybe make reference to what you drive when you complain about the weight, and see if the lighter car also has the other benefits a M5 has but at a lower weight. For reference I also drive a caterham, so I have both ends of the scale covered for on road "feeling" It hides its weight well and only really when you take into account the cost of replacing consumables will the weight factor in. Its lighter than the previous generation and also has 4wd, I would say that's an achievement. As for the size, yes its bigger, as are most cars, I found it completely fine, it still fits in a lane easily, I also used it on roads with no markings over the cairngorms, again it was fine. As has been mentioned before its narrower than a modern mondeo I believe.
3) Its not quick compared to a Tesla - I have driven a model S P90D but not the P100D, yes its impressive off the line but then it starts to run out of puff as the speed rises which is kind of unsatisfying, where as the M5 will just be getting in its stride, you see it in all the you tube drag videos. From a performance vehicle point of view its a one trick pony and it doesnt have the breadth of abilities an M5 or comparable car does. It would be good to show your friends the launch as its hilariously ridiculous, but I wouldn't want it to go for a B-road blast (i did try it on b-roads and its pretty anodyne).
In summary, its not fantastic at any one thing but has a great breadth of abilities and is one of the true all-round cars. From most of the reviews, and my own experiences, it handles better than its peers, and for me its the adjustable handling that make it the one to pick. You can even specify an electric folding tow-bar as an option! So if somebody would like to purchase a M5 competition with towbar and radar cruise control and sell it in 2.5 years time I would be much obliged!
I drove the current F90 after an extended 5 hour test drive recently. I am quite keen to see how the competition drives if the dealer gets a demonstrator. I bought both M5's after the first poor owner took a considerable hit in depreciation. They can lose a lot and I picked up my F10 just before the manufacturers 3 year warranty was expiring, buying it from BMW they extended it by a year. I paid less than half the new price + options. It really becomes a viable purchase at that point.
To address some of the points made already (based on the F90 M5 not the competition).
1) Its too fast for the roads - Its not un-driveable, far from it and it can even put its power down in rear wheel drive mode very effectively. Its the driver that chooses the speed anyway, its not the fault of the car, a 10 year old 330d would get you jail time very quickly, you still have to choose to do it. I dont see it as an argument, the E39 M5 could get you in trouble stupidly quick if you were to not assess the road, your surroundings etc, and be caught from an undercover car / camera. The only car that I have driven on the road that starts to make you question if it is too fast was the Mclaren 720s, that is next level quick.
2) Its too heavy and big - Its not really, a previous post showed the weight differences over the generations and also its competitors, its doing not too bad. Maybe make reference to what you drive when you complain about the weight, and see if the lighter car also has the other benefits a M5 has but at a lower weight. For reference I also drive a caterham, so I have both ends of the scale covered for on road "feeling" It hides its weight well and only really when you take into account the cost of replacing consumables will the weight factor in. Its lighter than the previous generation and also has 4wd, I would say that's an achievement. As for the size, yes its bigger, as are most cars, I found it completely fine, it still fits in a lane easily, I also used it on roads with no markings over the cairngorms, again it was fine. As has been mentioned before its narrower than a modern mondeo I believe.
3) Its not quick compared to a Tesla - I have driven a model S P90D but not the P100D, yes its impressive off the line but then it starts to run out of puff as the speed rises which is kind of unsatisfying, where as the M5 will just be getting in its stride, you see it in all the you tube drag videos. From a performance vehicle point of view its a one trick pony and it doesnt have the breadth of abilities an M5 or comparable car does. It would be good to show your friends the launch as its hilariously ridiculous, but I wouldn't want it to go for a B-road blast (i did try it on b-roads and its pretty anodyne).
In summary, its not fantastic at any one thing but has a great breadth of abilities and is one of the true all-round cars. From most of the reviews, and my own experiences, it handles better than its peers, and for me its the adjustable handling that make it the one to pick. You can even specify an electric folding tow-bar as an option! So if somebody would like to purchase a M5 competition with towbar and radar cruise control and sell it in 2.5 years time I would be much obliged!
mcerbm said:
In summary, its not fantastic at any one thing but has a great breadth of abilities and is one of the true all-round cars.
That’s exactly how I feel about cars in this class and very much reflects my view of my E63s. I have the added bonus (to me) of it being a wagon. If BMW did a Touring F90 it would have been a hard choice. Wills2 said:
Don Colione said:
In my humble opinion, the M5 has lost its way from its sports sedan roots. This car is overweight, overpowered, overpriced, and unbalanced as a proper sports saloon.
My last favorite M5 was the V10... It had its flaws, but it was at least exciting!
The last two iterations of the M5 have been "cold" because of that engine... While powerful, they are so characterless they have to make up fake 'performance' engine sound to pump into the cabin. That is the ultimate fail in a sports saloon imo. I also am not in favor of the move to AWD; which I know was done to corral the power, but adds more weight and removes the rear-wheel dynamism that I love about performance driving. I know it can be turned off.
I consider the Lexus GS-F the modern spiritual successor to the E39 M5. Imo Lexus' biggest problem or weakness is that they don't make manual transmissions!
In the words of the monkey himself - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIHQfqwLYys
I know that is the last edition model, but it highlights the 'problems' that I suspect are still present in this iteration...
That M5 looked and sounded great to me, I loved my F10 M5, Harris also calls it a superlative car with a magnificent engine, so I'm confused My last favorite M5 was the V10... It had its flaws, but it was at least exciting!
The last two iterations of the M5 have been "cold" because of that engine... While powerful, they are so characterless they have to make up fake 'performance' engine sound to pump into the cabin. That is the ultimate fail in a sports saloon imo. I also am not in favor of the move to AWD; which I know was done to corral the power, but adds more weight and removes the rear-wheel dynamism that I love about performance driving. I know it can be turned off.
I consider the Lexus GS-F the modern spiritual successor to the E39 M5. Imo Lexus' biggest problem or weakness is that they don't make manual transmissions!
In the words of the monkey himself - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIHQfqwLYys
I know that is the last edition model, but it highlights the 'problems' that I suspect are still present in this iteration...
Edited by Wills2 on Tuesday 23 October 18:01
I think it's rather a smart idea actually, because it means you can have a nice quiet car when you're doing long distance cruising and a fruity sounding one when you're pressing on.
I owned an F10 M5, and you wouldn't have known what was happening if someone hadn't told you...
mcerbm great post
BMWBen said:
I owned an F10 M5, and you wouldn't have known what was happening if someone hadn't told you...
The car sounds great from the outside, open your windows a bit and perhaps put an exhaust on it. But I already get annoyed at the fake loudspeaker noise of all these cars even listening in YouTube, my brain just processes the noise heard and tells me 'Fake!' Same for all the cars playing exhaust noise to the outside. I guess it's a bit like a fan of piano concertos that is forced to listen to a concert played on a 80ies synthesizer, perhaps the majority cannot tell the difference, I can't help it and get a deep sense of dissatisfaction... Then I'd rather have a real but boring or very muted sound... Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff