RE: Supra VLN race car... goes racing
Discussion
Ursicles said:
Reading what the head of Toyota has been saying, they are providing a margarita pizza, and expecting tuners to go wild with the toppings.
So much so that several big tuners are being given the car early to develop packages for it before it's even launched!
It's reckoned to be about 350bhp, with a bit of tuner magic I'd say 500bhp is easy - and then it's a weapon.
Will just have to see when mine arrives in September 2019
This is the part that make's sense.... The UK Pistonheads just doesn't get it, just like the GT86 was supposed to be, a great base that you configure your way with help from the aftermarket...So much so that several big tuners are being given the car early to develop packages for it before it's even launched!
It's reckoned to be about 350bhp, with a bit of tuner magic I'd say 500bhp is easy - and then it's a weapon.
Will just have to see when mine arrives in September 2019
MB140 said:
Wel@ as it had a bmw m135 or 140 engine in it and these are doing 450 bhp quite easy. (Map, sports cat, exhaust and inter cooler upgrades then yes I can see them being easy to tune. There are 500bhp running around but I believe there running methonal fuel mix.
It will be interesting to see what the Japanese tuners can do - up to now they've had little interest in BMW engines. AW111 said:
It will be interesting to see what the Japanese tuners can do - up to now they've had little interest in BMW engines.
The biggest setback is that BMW engine, it's too small of displacement to run the big power/torque numbers needed against today's competition using conventional unleaded fuel.All the big numbers you see on tuned Japanese cars are run on race fuel or ethanol.
juicy sushi said:
I find the comments about it not being like "the original" really silly.
the Mk.IV was not "the original". The original was, as someone else mentioned, a Celica coupe with a slightly bigger engine.
Nor was "the original" operating in the same market. It was when adjusted for inflation, a fair chunk more expensive than this one. This isn't the tuning monster of the last one. Boo hoo. The last one didn't sell well enough to be worth following up on for a quarter of a century. Toyota doesn't have a bubble economy and buckets of cash to throw at vanity products anymore.
The current car seems to fit pretty damn well into its actual target market (50k sports coupes). For those whinging that it doesn't offer 7 million horsepower to compete against Lamborghinis perhaps they should try and build cars for a living and see how they get on.
If that is the case, why has Honda and Nissan sold 'vanity' performance models and why did Toyota (through Lexus) build cars like the LF-A and the LFC coupe?the Mk.IV was not "the original". The original was, as someone else mentioned, a Celica coupe with a slightly bigger engine.
Nor was "the original" operating in the same market. It was when adjusted for inflation, a fair chunk more expensive than this one. This isn't the tuning monster of the last one. Boo hoo. The last one didn't sell well enough to be worth following up on for a quarter of a century. Toyota doesn't have a bubble economy and buckets of cash to throw at vanity products anymore.
The current car seems to fit pretty damn well into its actual target market (50k sports coupes). For those whinging that it doesn't offer 7 million horsepower to compete against Lamborghinis perhaps they should try and build cars for a living and see how they get on.
Edited by juicy sushi on Tuesday 23 October 17:46
The board at Toyota have taken a real safety first approach (or they lost their most talented team of engineers who developed the JZ platform) , so instead of a real bid at it before the petrol combustion era comes to an end, they hedged their bets by re-badging the new Z4 chassis and automatic power train, a combination that was always associated with the motoring and lifestyle patterns of the private dentists and hair dresser.
So what they have is something that is expensive, the 50k base price is speculation, expect it to be much higher with the small 900 production run and not very high performance in today's terms, its only going to damage the Supra in the long run.
Would the next Corvette be a success if they ditched a powerful V8 for a compact and light 150 HP 4 pot in the name of handling and 'driver feedback'? I don't think so.
V10Ace said:
This is the part that make's sense.... The UK just doesn't get it, just like the GT86 was supposed to be, a great base that you configure your way with help from the aftermarket...
That's what I want for my 25 grand - a half arsed car. The UK doesn't get it? Behave. Nobody wants to tune a new car. It's a stupid idea. It's got a warranty. And so nobody does. When they start getting down well under 10 grand there'll be a bit more interest, but ultimately the GT86 was a heavy car with a s
t engine. Likewise, nobody is going to spend 50 grand on a Toyota to modify it. A few folk with more money than sense will of course, but only because it says "supra" on it. If this was just another Z4 launch nobody would take any notice. It's a fashion statement - pretty sad really.
Mackofthejungle said:
V10Ace said:
This is the part that make's sense.... The UK just doesn't get it, just like the GT86 was supposed to be, a great base that you configure your way with help from the aftermarket...
That's what I want for my 25 grand - a half arsed car. The UK doesn't get it? Behave. Nobody wants to tune a new car. It's a stupid idea. It's got a warranty. And so nobody does. When they start getting down well under 10 grand there'll be a bit more interest, but ultimately the GT86 was a heavy car with a s
t engine. Likewise, nobody is going to spend 50 grand on a Toyota to modify it. A few folk with more money than sense will of course, but only because it says "supra" on it. If this was just another Z4 launch nobody would take any notice. It's a fashion statement - pretty sad really.
In the USA, stuff like the Mustang is sold with Ford wholly expecting buyers to 'tune it up'. Look at Chevy/Dodge releasing drag specials to compete with the tuners. (which is what they're doing)
In Japan the GT86 is available with steel wheels and unpainted bumpers if you want, specifically so you can fit your own alloys and bodykit. And it's not the only one.
It's only in Europe (out of the Western World, at least) where we've got sticks so far up our own arses that we've been bullied into being more worried about 'residual values' than about having a car that is truly what we want it to be. Where most (new-car-buying) so-called petrolheads habitually go for a grey/silver/black German performance car, rather than something genuinely interesting. Where everything now has a f
king turbo-4 or turbo-6 driven through a paddle-shift auto or DSG (and usually 4wd), and offers as much genuine character as a sponge cake. Because the marketing guys have sold this middle-class wet-dream of image on the drive...Is this new Supra a great car? Probably not. Certainly doesn't look it out of the box, I have to say
COULD this be a great car? For an individual buyer's definition of 'great', with his/her chosen mods, yes it could. Possibly.
Was it designed with the Euro market in mind? Unlikely, by the sound of this thread.
havoc said:
Was it designed with the Euro market in mind? Unlikely, by the sound of this thread.
Superb analysis (honestly) in your comment, except the summary. From what you've said, Europe is the only market the new Supra has been designed for, as it will neither be tuned/fettled like a 'Stang, nor will it ever be sold in Europe in base spec as a blank canvas. It won't be bought for cash, but leased (like the M140i/M2) or hire purchased, either option using the company car cash allowance. 3 years down the road will be where the tuning fun starts with owner number 2 - at which stage someone will have cracked exactly how much power to extract, how low it can go & how it'll go faster - or sideways - round a track.Mackofthejungle said:
V10Ace said:
This is the part that make's sense.... The UK just doesn't get it, just like the GT86 was supposed to be, a great base that you configure your way with help from the aftermarket...
Ultimately the GT86 was a heavy car with a st engine. 
.... but I do get them...Many people, me included when looking at a new performance car are already looking for what we are going to change as soon as we lay our hands on it or further down the line... Does'nt mean that the car is "half baked" some just like more of something, something added or a little taken away...
Some keep and enjoy it standard...
For me standard is half baked on anything, as they have to appeal to everyone... and I am not everyone, I will want it louder, I will want it faster and I will want it looking very slightly different to all others that leave the factory...
New or pre-loved...
Unless it's a Radical... which are plenty loud enough
.
Edited by V10Ace on Thursday 25th October 00:11
Edited by V10Ace on Thursday 25th October 00:12
My biggest issue with it is that it’s not really a Supra is it - it’s a BMW Z4 in all but name. No quirky, unique Japanese engineering and individualism. Literally just a restyled BMW.
And the talk of it being a tuning monster - no more than the current BMW m140i / 340i / 540i which all share the same engine. So we already know exactly what it’s capable of. Yawn
And the talk of it being a tuning monster - no more than the current BMW m140i / 340i / 540i which all share the same engine. So we already know exactly what it’s capable of. Yawn
The Voice said:
My biggest issue with it is that it’s not really a Supra is it - it’s a BMW Z4 in all but name. No quirky, unique Japanese engineering and individualism. Literally just a restyled BMW.
And the talk of it being a tuning monster - no more than the current BMW m140i / 340i / 540i which all share the same engine. So we already know exactly what it’s capable of. Yawn
Not quite, the engine seems more closely related to the one in the new X5 which carries a number of changes over the one in the older 40i variants. It also has a Toyota designed and developed turbo and oil cooling and delivery. I think the devil might be in the detail. I’d be surprised if it hadn’t been done this way to allow Tuners open access to the engine management code. I think we will see Montune esk factory backed tuning packages but at sub 1500KGs and already at 350bhp maybe it’s already got enough for day to day road use.And the talk of it being a tuning monster - no more than the current BMW m140i / 340i / 540i which all share the same engine. So we already know exactly what it’s capable of. Yawn
BFleming said:
havoc said:
Was it designed with the Euro market in mind? Unlikely, by the sound of this thread.
Superb analysis (honestly) in your comment, except the summary. From what you've said, Europe is the only market the new Supra has been designed for, as it will neither be tuned/fettled like a 'Stang, nor will it ever be sold in Europe in base spec as a blank canvas. It won't be bought for cash, but leased (like the M140i/M2) or hire purchased, either option using the company car cash allowance. 3 years down the road will be where the tuning fun starts with owner number 2 - at which stage someone will have cracked exactly how much power to extract, how low it can go & how it'll go faster - or sideways - round a track.
You might be right.
As a JDM fan, this LOOKS like a missed opportunity to me in base concept...but I await being proved wrong.
havoc said:
It's only in Europe (out of the Western World, at least) where we've got sticks so far up our own arses that we've been bullied into being more worried about 'residual values' than about having a car that is truly what we want it to be. Where most (new-car-buying) so-called petrolheads habitually go for a grey/silver/black German performance car, rather than something genuinely interesting. Where everything now has a fking turbo-4 or turbo-6 driven through a paddle-shift auto or DSG (and usually 4wd), and offers as much genuine character as a sponge cake. Because the marketing guys have sold this middle-class wet-dream of image on the drive...
Yes I was going to post something similar to this, the euro-market as seen from a car maker's perspective mandates this 'Supra' to appeal to the middle-classes with good credit profiles that want to buy into the hype, yet it must be accessible and acceptable to the mainstream/neighbours/office co-workers environment backed by a warranty.king turbo-4 or turbo-6 driven through a paddle-shift auto or DSG (and usually 4wd), and offers as much genuine character as a sponge cake. Because the marketing guys have sold this middle-class wet-dream of image on the drive...The MK3 with 3 litre I6 suffered an image and blown head gasket problem, it suffered. The MK4 initially divided opinion, then the Americans and Japanese exploited the rugged 2JZ power train, from then, big power numbers, sub 12 second 1/4 mile times, supercar slaying antics followed suit. Professional racing teams won trophies and added legitimate credibility to the platform. So not only all this was a part of the JDM craze of the 1990's and early '00s, the Supra was feared by its reputation, even a 220 HP non-turbo automatic model would have been give respect as most folks could not distinguish it from a Supra that packed 600+ horsepower.
With this Z4 derived coupe, you'll have teenagers in their FWD turbo hatchboxes picking on the car all day long, with 4WD variants leaving it for dead at every traffic light. You can imagine the instagram posts; dat they smoked up dat new supra blud, vdub 4 l1fe.
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