RE: Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon Q4 V6: Spotted
Discussion
Jimmy Recard said:
untakenname said:
Is this the same 3.2 V6 as used in the Omega/Vectra? If so then it's got quite a lot of grunt if not much top end.
No, totally different engine. It's based on the GM High Feature V6 that was the successor to that one.Like the 2.2 JTS it was derived from a GM unit but has some Alfa Romeo 'modifications' (for instance variable valve timing and GM never offered a 3.2 version so I assume the internals are to Alfa Romeo's specification too). Its closest European relative is the Opel/Saab 2.8 turbo V6 from cars like the Vectra and Insignia VXR
Edited by Jimmy Recard on Saturday 3rd November 14:14
DrSteveBrule said:
From my limited knowledge as an owner of a Q4 V6 Ti Spec saloon....
• Timing chains – yes they can be an issue if servicing is neglected. Keep on top of the oil changes, use the right oil and it shouldn't be an issue. Narrow gullies clog up and starve the chain but the right oil keeps things flowing nicely.
• It's not a Busso – they would have sold loads more if it had been. From what I can gather, the block is GM sourced but everything else has been reworked by Alfa. It still has character and loves to rev and even with the factory exhausts it sounds fruity.
• Weight – the 4wd does add weight but from 2008 onwards they managed to lose a few kg.
• Electrics – should be okay, or at least no worse than any other car. The 159 was designed and built to go up against Audi and BMW, so at least Alfa tried a little harder this time.
This is well worth the money, why not add some Italian flair while doing the tip run.
ETA: If you can find one, the 1750 TBi petrol unit is highly regarded, and towards the end of the 159's life they did 2wd 3.2. Both are pretty scarce though.
One point to add - the engine has vast oil return voids, and it is possible to uncover the oil pump intake during hard cornering. Not a car for tracking. • Timing chains – yes they can be an issue if servicing is neglected. Keep on top of the oil changes, use the right oil and it shouldn't be an issue. Narrow gullies clog up and starve the chain but the right oil keeps things flowing nicely.
• It's not a Busso – they would have sold loads more if it had been. From what I can gather, the block is GM sourced but everything else has been reworked by Alfa. It still has character and loves to rev and even with the factory exhausts it sounds fruity.
• Weight – the 4wd does add weight but from 2008 onwards they managed to lose a few kg.
• Electrics – should be okay, or at least no worse than any other car. The 159 was designed and built to go up against Audi and BMW, so at least Alfa tried a little harder this time.
This is well worth the money, why not add some Italian flair while doing the tip run.
ETA: If you can find one, the 1750 TBi petrol unit is highly regarded, and towards the end of the 159's life they did 2wd 3.2. Both are pretty scarce though.
Edited by DrSteveBrule on Saturday 3rd November 12:17
We have a diesel one (2.4) and it’s a damn good long distance cruiser. Did 800 miles in it last w/e, came home with a vast quantity of wine, it was supremely happy at improbable speeds on French motorways.
I’m not sure what the V6 is for in this car. It’s too heavy to be fun, and it’s not a Busso.
Still, £3500 is a bit of a bargain, but 550 tax would hurt.
bobtail4x4 said:
the later omegas were 2.6 and 3.2l
You're right, they were. Those engines aren't related to this one though. This is part of the GM High Feature V6 family, it replaced the old Opel 54 degree V6 that was in the Omega B and pre facelift Vectra CI meant that Alfa Romeo had the only 3.2 litre version of the High Feature V6. For example Opel and Saab got it as a 2.8 turbo, other GM divisions got it as a 3.6
Without the Busso, it's just a thirsty, costly to run albeit nice looking estate with a pretty small boot. Think I'd rather have this for the money
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Found this thread an interesting read.
Certainly looks an interesting car to me. I note the discussion about expensive road tax etc.
I have driven six cylinder petrol estates for a long time (mostly Volvo 960 3.0 24v - excellent cars, and Mercedes E320 w124 - very disappointing), along with a Saab 9-5 Aero.
Was looking for a new car recently, basically a six cylinder petrol estate car.
I was shocked how few of this type of car were on the market.
It took me 3 months to find a Ford mondeo st220 estate. Worth the effort though.
I would say that if you are in the market for a six cylinder petrol estate car then I would just get on with it now.
In a year or so there will be none left, and you will be driving a diesel whether you like it or not.
Certainly looks an interesting car to me. I note the discussion about expensive road tax etc.
I have driven six cylinder petrol estates for a long time (mostly Volvo 960 3.0 24v - excellent cars, and Mercedes E320 w124 - very disappointing), along with a Saab 9-5 Aero.
Was looking for a new car recently, basically a six cylinder petrol estate car.
I was shocked how few of this type of car were on the market.
It took me 3 months to find a Ford mondeo st220 estate. Worth the effort though.
I would say that if you are in the market for a six cylinder petrol estate car then I would just get on with it now.
In a year or so there will be none left, and you will be driving a diesel whether you like it or not.
Oilchange said:
And Gordon Browns idea of taxing cars off the road (550 quid) really works, which shows how spiteful the old b
d was...
It serves a purpose and he did a far better job than that lying snake Phillip Hammond. I suppose you also believe Brexit will be good for the country?d was...DrSteveBrule said:
From my limited knowledge as an owner of a Q4 V6 Ti Spec saloon....
• Timing chains – yes they can be an issue if servicing is neglected. Keep on top of the oil changes, use the right oil and it shouldn't be an issue. Narrow gullies clog up and starve the chain but the right oil keeps things flowing nicely.
• It's not a Busso – they would have sold loads more if it had been. From what I can gather, the block is GM sourced but everything else has been reworked by Alfa. It still has character and loves to rev and even with the factory exhausts it sounds fruity.
• Weight – the 4wd does add weight but from 2008 onwards they managed to lose a few kg.
• Electrics – should be okay, or at least no worse than any other car. The 159 was designed and built to go up against Audi and BMW, so at least Alfa tried a little harder this time.
This is well worth the money, why not add some Italian flair while doing the tip run.
ETA: If you can find one, the 1750 TBi petrol unit is highly regarded, and towards the end of the 159's life they did 2wd 3.2. Both are pretty scarce though.
The electrics aren't much of an issue, like any other car they use generic components that are common to any other car, german or otherwise. Arguably they are better than some.• Timing chains – yes they can be an issue if servicing is neglected. Keep on top of the oil changes, use the right oil and it shouldn't be an issue. Narrow gullies clog up and starve the chain but the right oil keeps things flowing nicely.
• It's not a Busso – they would have sold loads more if it had been. From what I can gather, the block is GM sourced but everything else has been reworked by Alfa. It still has character and loves to rev and even with the factory exhausts it sounds fruity.
• Weight – the 4wd does add weight but from 2008 onwards they managed to lose a few kg.
• Electrics – should be okay, or at least no worse than any other car. The 159 was designed and built to go up against Audi and BMW, so at least Alfa tried a little harder this time.
This is well worth the money, why not add some Italian flair while doing the tip run.
ETA: If you can find one, the 1750 TBi petrol unit is highly regarded, and towards the end of the 159's life they did 2wd 3.2. Both are pretty scarce though.
Edited by DrSteveBrule on Saturday 3rd November 12:17
The engine is a GM unit. The heads are supposedly unique to Alfa but from what I understand the only real differnce relates to the shape of the intake ports (or something like that). And yes stretch timing chains can cause issues that are indicated by an engine management light and a fault code relating to cam sensor.
The Busso V6 couldn't be made to comform with CF4 emission standards without signiificant expenditure so the Accountants wrote it off.
Big thing to look for with this particular car will be a rotten front subframe. They're £1500(ish) new and, in theory, an obviously repaired (welded) subframe will fail an MOT. As most of it is covered by the undertray, it is difficult to spot it.
Zombie said:
The electrics aren't much of an issue, like any other car they use generic components that are common to any other car, german or otherwise. Arguably they are better than some.
The engine is a GM unit. The heads are supposedly unique to Alfa but from what I understand the only real differnce relates to the shape of the intake ports (or something like that). And yes stretch timing chains can cause issues that are indicated by an engine management light and a fault code relating to cam sensor.
The Busso V6 couldn't be made to comform with CF4 emission standards without signiificant expenditure so the Accountants wrote it off.
Big thing to look for with this particular car will be a rotten front subframe. They're £1500(ish) new and, in theory, an obviously repaired (welded) subframe will fail an MOT. As most of it is covered by the undertray, it is difficult to spot it.
Those must be quite some inlet ports to modify the displacement to 3.2 litres.The engine is a GM unit. The heads are supposedly unique to Alfa but from what I understand the only real differnce relates to the shape of the intake ports (or something like that). And yes stretch timing chains can cause issues that are indicated by an engine management light and a fault code relating to cam sensor.
The Busso V6 couldn't be made to comform with CF4 emission standards without signiificant expenditure so the Accountants wrote it off.
Big thing to look for with this particular car will be a rotten front subframe. They're £1500(ish) new and, in theory, an obviously repaired (welded) subframe will fail an MOT. As most of it is covered by the undertray, it is difficult to spot it.
This may have its roots in the GM High Feature V6, but it’s substantially different (by Alfa Romeo’s own design) from other motors in that family.
Zombie said:
It serves a purpose and he did a far better job than that lying snake Phillip Hammond. I suppose you also believe Brexit will be good for the country?
don't try to derail the thread you moronI suspect a smaller engine version would be miles more economical on long motorway journeys but what do I know. Is the tax bracket the same for the 1.7?
Zombie said:
Oilchange said:
And Gordon Browns idea of taxing cars off the road (550 quid) really works, which shows how spiteful the old bd was...
It serves a purpose and he did a far better job than that lying snake Phillip Hammond. I suppose you also believe Brexit will be good for the country?d was...- Correction, what parties?
Jimmy Recard said:
Those must be quite some inlet ports to modify the displacement to 3.2 litres.
This may have its roots in the GM High Feature V6, but it’s substantially different (by Alfa Romeo’s own design) from other motors in that family.
What are you not understanding?This may have its roots in the GM High Feature V6, but it’s substantially different (by Alfa Romeo’s own design) from other motors in that family.
Holden produced a GM 3195cc High Feature V6, Holden, Suzuki and Opel all used it. Spookily, the exact same capacity to the CC that Alfa used, hmmmmm.
THERE WAS NO CAPACITY MODIFICATION NEEDED.
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