RE: 'Beyond 400hp' Mercedes-AMG A45 caught testing
Discussion
TwinExit said:
3 ways to do this...
1 - 400 HP is made at high RPM (less torque/cylinder pressure needed for target power)
2 - Use 'charge cooling' such as methanol or water injection (much like the BMW M4 GTS)
3 - They lie/exaggerate the output.
I suspect a mix of 2 or 3 - may be super peaky like the FQ-400 was (remember that in certain tests the MR-360 was quicker?) but I expect water injection at a minimum. 1 - 400 HP is made at high RPM (less torque/cylinder pressure needed for target power)
2 - Use 'charge cooling' such as methanol or water injection (much like the BMW M4 GTS)
3 - They lie/exaggerate the output.
Water injection is a good shout, this was assuming straight combustion, but with the advent of new emissions standards this could be their flagship to engineer water injection in before a wider roll out
Deep Thought said:
Chestrockwell said:
sidesauce said:
What a time to live in when fast hatchbacks easily bought by the public are closing in on what would have been considered exotic supercar-level performance stats 15 years ago...
Good point but are these easily bought by the public?This will no doubt be quicker than an M2 Competition but the fact is, the M2 is a 2 door coupe with a wider body and a purposeful look, also a straight 6 and RWD. At 50 grand, it’s a lot of money but money well spent.
The A45 will have super car rivalling performance and what not but it’s still a hatchback with nothing more than a different grill and bigger exhausts. At 50 grand, I don’t care how quick it is, it’s still a small hatchback. Id much rather an M2, or even an M4 and C63 with a few thousand miles on them!
I mean, previous gen A class, I see A160’s in AMG line with vents, twin exhausts and all sorts, the AMG lines look so good, that there’s almost nothing left to do to improve the look of the AMG.
As for people wanting understated looks from an AMG, that’s fair, I mean, I love the look of the E63 and M5, they’re not shouty and they never have been. But, for a hatchback, a hyper hatch, 400 bhp for a small car with a 50 grand price, I’d want it to look the part! Anybody remember the Nissan Pulsar GTR? I’m not talking FK8 levels either, because even though they’ve done the right thing and given it a purposeful look, the problem lies with the original shape and look of the car, it’s not a looker and it just looks worse. The A class is a smart looking car, I’m sure something could have been done!
Mr.Jimbo said:
TwinExit said:
3 ways to do this...
1 - 400 HP is made at high RPM (less torque/cylinder pressure needed for target power)
2 - Use 'charge cooling' such as methanol or water injection (much like the BMW M4 GTS)
3 - They lie/exaggerate the output.
I suspect a mix of 2 or 3 - may be super peaky like the FQ-400 was (remember that in certain tests the MR-360 was quicker?) but I expect water injection at a minimum. 1 - 400 HP is made at high RPM (less torque/cylinder pressure needed for target power)
2 - Use 'charge cooling' such as methanol or water injection (much like the BMW M4 GTS)
3 - They lie/exaggerate the output.
Water injection is a good shout, this was assuming straight combustion, but with the advent of new emissions standards this could be their flagship to engineer water injection in before a wider roll out
Deep Thought said:
And therein lies one of the problems with us and our A45. Looks like an A220D AMG Line. I think AMG Mercedes have been quite lazy with they styling compared to what BMW have done with the M2. BUT conversely, there will be people say thats what they want from an AMG....
This is exactly why I bought my FL A45 - ordered it new without any of the aero kit or big wheels, and your right its 90% A180d in look. I just wanted relative anonymity as was working in carjack city at the time (Birmingham). you can still tell its an AMG from the rear diffuser and the red callipers when its parked up, plus the noise when its running, but because it wasn't covered in carbon, big alloys and bling I didn't come out of the office to groups of skinny kids wearing big chains and man bags bobbing round it saying "nah man" at the beginning of every sentence, like some of my colleagues did when returning to their more obviously styled cars. Although I did almost get relieved of it by carjackers last winter, so my efforts weren't entirely successful, although in those weeks a number of other non AMG white A class were stolen in the area, so presumably the gangs had a need for the parts to repair a white A class write off to sell, so im not sure it was even about the A45 just A class generally.I completely get wanting it to feel like you've bought something a little special, my past included a bright orange exige and various evo's which had no subtlety to them whatsoever, and you do get a little bit more excitement getting into somethingthat looks a little more purposeful.
As others have said, I'd also like an M2C next I think, but not long had the A45 remapped by DMS so will wait until that gets old before doing anything else.
The new A class I'm really not sure about. Externally its ok, but the interior with all the electronics and screens does nothing for me (although I expect this is the shape of things to come from all brands). I think they need to make one without all the weight and non-essential rubbish in (screens, heated seats, glass roof etc) kind of like the CSL mantra, however I expect that is probably too niche for the AMG label, but then its got to be different enough to the A35 somehow to warrant what I expect will be a big jump in price from the A35
RacerMike said:
It's definitely not 3. A friends GLA45 AMG (Don't ask) made nearly 400bhp as standard before remapping and 415bhp after. Modern control of knock and direct injection plays a big part in the ability to get so much from a 4 pot 2l.
Knock control REDUCES torque/HP at the onset of knock in efforts to protect the engine. Direct injection (fuel ingress further into the combustion chamber) does not increase the gas mixture's resistance to knock, in fact it increases the likelyhood of pre-ignition due to contamination of oil additives 'washed' into the fuel mixture.This is why BMW had to use water cooling on the 3.0 litre M4 GTS, the factory output for it's limited displacement was going into knock territory with 98 RON Unleaded.
We don't have the factual torque numbers yet, I am almost certain it will be significantly lower than 400 lbs/ft, more along 280-300 lbs/ft. The headline 400+ horses will be achieved at the top-end of its rev range, so we'll see a relatively peaky powerband.
Edited by TwinExit on Monday 5th November 17:05
Rich_W said:
Ariticle said:
9 speed
In a transverse engine mounted hatchback? 
The 7 speed only just bloody fits!
It appears to have a few problems when installed in Land Rovers and Jeeps, however.
It has four gear sets and six shifting elements...
Edited by AppleJuice on Monday 5th November 18:35
JohnGoodridge said:
GranCab said:
big_rob_sydney said:
The Suzuki RGV250 put out 55 bhp back in 1987. That's a specific out higher than this, more than THIRTY years ago.
Colour me unimpressed by this.
Little 2-stroke bikes don't count ..... Colour me unimpressed by this.
More to the point, why do you feel achieving this today is news, when they are more than 30 years late to the party?
TwinExit said:
Silverbullet767 said:
Absolutely mad, I love it.
No doubt someone will have a 500bhp remap ready to go a week after release. Who will take one for the team and find out the engines limit I wonder?
Not without water/alcohol injection or race fuel it wont.No doubt someone will have a 500bhp remap ready to go a week after release. Who will take one for the team and find out the engines limit I wonder?
TwinExit said:
The FQ400 rarely proved itself to make the claimed power output on the available pump fuel of the time. Owners reported 340-350 HP.
Really?? Mine had no trouble making over the claimed power, 425 and 377 lbft. The gearbox would happily back that up too. I destroyed 3 in 20,000miles!!AppleJuice said:
In all likelihood it will be a ZF 9HP:
It appears to have a few problems when installed in Land Rovers and Jeeps, however.
It has four gear sets and six shifting elements...
I think the current MB 9 speeds are designed and built in house as were the 7 speeds before them.It appears to have a few problems when installed in Land Rovers and Jeeps, however.
It has four gear sets and six shifting elements...
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 5th November 18:35
May be wrong but I don’t think it is a third party box.
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