RE: Tesla Model 3 gets new Track Mode
Discussion
dvs_dave said:
That’s pretty cool. Especially as it’s all through a software update.
Although I’m not so sure the author understands what an LSD does/how it works. The braking of the inside wheel is primarily a cheap way to get torque vectoring. Additional traction gained through limiting unloaded tyre slip by braking that wheel is the secondary function. This is a simulated LSD function, however it’s more similar to just plain old traction control.
It’s one of the really interesting aspects of the next generation of car. It won’t be long before your family car resets to the desired characteristics of each driver as they get in, making it a different car for each user. The downside is that we are in the zone where this is all paid for by the investors but down the line it will just become yet another monthly direct debit just to keep your car working. What will be lost to the manufacturer in servicing costs will be more than recouped in ongoing software fees as the market evolves to become commercial. Ev’s won’t change the laws of money. Although I’m not so sure the author understands what an LSD does/how it works. The braking of the inside wheel is primarily a cheap way to get torque vectoring. Additional traction gained through limiting unloaded tyre slip by braking that wheel is the secondary function. This is a simulated LSD function, however it’s more similar to just plain old traction control.
RobDickinson said:
jakeb said:
A delivery mode wouldn't be a bad idea.
Not sure why they are concentrating on rubbish like this when VW et all are building up to give them a severe kicking
Not sure why they are concentrating on rubbish like this when VW et all are building up to give them a severe kicking
- citation needed.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/vws-me...
EU6bn being invested and a 25k car next year. I bet there is more people in r&d at vw group than the entirity of tesla.
The advantage they had was they had innovative vehicles on the road but they have failed to scale up and get bums on seats. 99% of customers dont care about ludicrous or track modes, they just want a car in a reasonable timescale...
otolith said:
yonex said:
otolith said:
That would make a lot of owners of “quick” ICE cars feel better. The thought that an electric family barge has enough acceleration to make their car look a bit silly might be a bit annoying.
It goes back to the point of you enjoy driving or not? For me an electric car is just a piece of transport. It’s actu pretty funny that EV owners feel the need to constantly quote performance. I’m sure you’d rather own a Model 3 than an F40, it’s quicker to 60 after all? It’s incredibly narrow minded to think that you can’t or shouldn’t make a car which is fast and fun to drive with electric power.
(and can I have a 355 instead of an F40 please, I’m sure it’s lots of fun but I really don’t like turbos)
RemarkLima said:
On the flipside to this, and coming from the software industry, there's a philosophy which does it no favours - release early and release often...
Yep, it annoys the s
t out of me too......and I don't think it'll be too long before the trend will swing back to a more 'waterfall' approach, especially with the recent cockups by the likes of Apple & MS.
It is going to take a bit of a change in mindset but I think it can be done.
M
Now discuss this:
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-tesla-model-s-...
I own a Tesla, but am under no illusions that the Ford/VW tie-up to create electric cars and self driving technologies will absolutely spank Tesla if done properly. But for now Tesla have an excellent proposition. As previously stated, I bought one because it was the best CAR for my needs at the time. I'm not bothered what powers my car as long as it works and meets my needs.
As an owner I feel qualified to discuss the car's merits and flaws, but it does annoy me how much of the same nonsense gets spouted by people with no experience or actual facts on what they're talking about. We see it in all the vehicle technology threads.
Fact is, it's happening NOW. Like it or not it is here for the foreseeable future.
Track times are as irrelevant for the M3P as they are most other cars. It's PR and it's got the world talking Tesla. Again...
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-tesla-model-s-...
I own a Tesla, but am under no illusions that the Ford/VW tie-up to create electric cars and self driving technologies will absolutely spank Tesla if done properly. But for now Tesla have an excellent proposition. As previously stated, I bought one because it was the best CAR for my needs at the time. I'm not bothered what powers my car as long as it works and meets my needs.
As an owner I feel qualified to discuss the car's merits and flaws, but it does annoy me how much of the same nonsense gets spouted by people with no experience or actual facts on what they're talking about. We see it in all the vehicle technology threads.
Fact is, it's happening NOW. Like it or not it is here for the foreseeable future.
Track times are as irrelevant for the M3P as they are most other cars. It's PR and it's got the world talking Tesla. Again...
yonex said:
Like others I believe this is just another bit of marketing spaff for Mr Musks playbrand. I think Tesla’s days are numbered to be frank, we’ve already seen the likes of BMW and Jaguar, let alone Porsche really ploughing money into EV. I think it’s pretty sad, there’s nothing I desire less than a silent, heavy car with lots of electronics, but oil isn’t going to last forever. Why do people watch F1 rather than the E championship thing, because it’s more evocative I’ll wager. Give it five years and we’ll see if I’m right. An electric commuter car on track, nope, it’s just silly.
It's good to see the major players getting in on this but my concern is HOW they deliver.Unless they invest in the software development teams to continually maintain the codebase, they will come unstuck. For that to happen, there has to be a huge shift in the mindset of these existing manufacturers and the willingness to invest... Which is something they're not used to doing.
This is where Tesla more than have the edge!
Like I said before, the 'Old School' lot are used to 'nailing' stuff together, shoving it out the door and then forgetting it. The dealer network is capable of looking after the vehicles but they're going to need someone to develop the software updates & patches, to respond to the vulnerabilities discovered later down the line.
M
kambites said:
yonex said:
Everyone knows it’ll drive better, be better built and have a proper car manufacturer behind it.
I'll give you the last of those, but the other two are very much just your guess. I dare say the BMW will have a cuddlier dashboard and probably better panel gaps but I'm not convinced they'll even match Tesla in terms of actual build/engineering quality let alone beat it. Handling, who knows but it's pretty irrelevant in this market. I also rather suspect the i4 will, in equivalent spec, be about £10k more expensive than the Model-3.
Tesla have the mindset & software dev teams in place, to deliver patches & upgrades. I'd like to be proven wrong but I think the other manufacturers are going to have a rude awakening & a steep learning curve ahead of them.
M
kambites said:
Cold said:
Which makes it worthwhile questioning the subject of this article.
Very much so but I don't see why the Tesla and the Model-3 is getting so much flack when it's conventionally engined rivals' manufactures spout this sort of rubbish all the time about cars which, in the hands of 99% of buyers, will never see a track.The curious thing is, it does matter in a way because while 99% of buyers of Model-3s, 3-series, etc. will never take their cars on track, they still seem to want to know that their car would perform well if they were to do something with it that they will never do.
Chocolate Teapot or not, if that's how the 'Standard' car performs, just imagine what it could be like if 'tweaked' for the track. Maybe a Model 3 'GT-RS'.
M
camel_landy said:
RemarkLima said:
On the flipside to this, and coming from the software industry, there's a philosophy which does it no favours - release early and release often...
Yep, it annoys the st out of me too......and I don't think it'll be too long before the trend will swing back to a more 'waterfall' approach, especially with the recent cockups by the likes of Apple & MS.
It is going to take a bit of a change in mindset but I think it can be done.
M
camel_landy said:
kambites said:
yonex said:
Everyone knows it’ll drive better, be better built and have a proper car manufacturer behind it.
I'll give you the last of those, but the other two are very much just your guess. I dare say the BMW will have a cuddlier dashboard and probably better panel gaps but I'm not convinced they'll even match Tesla in terms of actual build/engineering quality let alone beat it. Handling, who knows but it's pretty irrelevant in this market. I also rather suspect the i4 will, in equivalent spec, be about £10k more expensive than the Model-3.
Tesla have the mindset & software dev teams in place, to deliver patches & upgrades. I'd like to be proven wrong but I think the other manufacturers are going to have a rude awakening & a steep learning curve ahead of them.
M
Also, my i3 has received OTA updates, and the BMW Connected Drive is their gateway to this, as is the Mercedes Me setup... The issue is they have a global dealer network who need to be kept happy, and take away their income for which they've paid a handsom franchise fee would be to shoot themselves in the foot.
With that in mind, I'm 99% certain all the big OEM's could do OTA updates without big efforts, however the issue is more political than technical. Another advantage for Tesla is that the old corporate politics shouldn't be too entrenched at the moment - but give it time
yonex said:
But you can but Carerhams and the like, there are no EV equivalents, that’s the point?
Again. Your wrong, you can make them but it's not what the market needs or wants now. https://youtu.be/B8bV8SKeQOo
camel_landy said:
It's good to see the major players getting in on this but my concern is HOW they deliver.
Unless they invest in the software development teams to continually maintain the codebase, they will come unstuck. For that to happen, there has to be a huge shift in the mindset of these existing manufacturers and the willingness to invest... Which is something they're not used to doing.
This is where Tesla more than have the edge!
Like I said before, the 'Old School' lot are used to 'nailing' stuff together, shoving it out the door and then forgetting it. The dealer network is capable of looking after the vehicles but they're going to need someone to develop the software updates & patches, to respond to the vulnerabilities discovered later down the line.
M
If we look at things like smartphones, dishwashers, washing machines, kettles and so much modern tech their capabilities are absolutely immense, the programming options endless and some people will sit on their own for the rest of their life using every single function and programming it to the nth degree. But the vast majority of consumers will just look at the brand, look at the monthlies, check it will do the basic things that they need it to do and when it stops working or when marketing tells them its old, lob it in the bin and get another one. Unless they invest in the software development teams to continually maintain the codebase, they will come unstuck. For that to happen, there has to be a huge shift in the mindset of these existing manufacturers and the willingness to invest... Which is something they're not used to doing.
This is where Tesla more than have the edge!
Like I said before, the 'Old School' lot are used to 'nailing' stuff together, shoving it out the door and then forgetting it. The dealer network is capable of looking after the vehicles but they're going to need someone to develop the software updates & patches, to respond to the vulnerabilities discovered later down the line.
M
PH does seem to have a high concentration of people who are actually interested in faffing about with modern tech but the vast majority of consumers never explore the capabilities of their purchases. Badge, price tag, rent, bin, repeat.
Tesla massively appeals to a certain audience, whether that is the gadget fan, the trend fan or the brand fan. How well that power translates to consumers who just shop based on the monthlies and whether the product just gets them from A-B and looks OK on the drive remains to be seen.
The incumbent manufacturers get a lot of stock for apparently being years behind Tesla or not taking it seriously but they are the firms with the data to show what will sell to their consumer base over the next generation of cars, they have marketing depts that know what needs to be put on front covers and they know how much raw materials are needed and what pricing stability is required. At the same time they have to turn a profit per unit sold. They are not cash burning start ups but dividend yielding investment stocks. As enterprises they cannot be compared.
And in addition to all of that, as per usual the typical consumer is looking to the West when for this story all the action is happening in the East. The incumbents know this and they are looking to the East to see their threats while we all look in the wrong direction in reality.
RemarkLima said:
That said, I have done some work with various OEM's and their software teams, overall corporate security and general outlook on data, setup and design has been seriously impressive, easily on a par with banks and all other global corporations.
Indeed... And they've done that for a while as they have to be 'squeaky clean'. It's what we would call the 'Systems Integrators' I'm concerned about. M
RobDickinson said:
Again. Your wrong, you can make them but it's not what the market needs or wants now.
https://youtu.be/B8bV8SKeQOo
Not really, it’s not a production car is it. I admire your pro EV stance but thats a million miles off.https://youtu.be/B8bV8SKeQOo
camel_landy said:
It's good to see the major players getting in on this but my concern is HOW they deliver.
Unless they invest in the software development teams to continually maintain the codebase, they will come unstuck. For that to happen, there has to be a huge shift in the mindset of these existing manufacturers and the willingness to invest... Which is something they're not used to doing.
This is where Tesla more than have the edge!
Like I said before, the 'Old School' lot are used to 'nailing' stuff together, shoving it out the door and then forgetting it. The dealer network is capable of looking after the vehicles but they're going to need someone to develop the software updates & patches, to respond to the vulnerabilities discovered later down the line.
M
You think Tesla are the only ones who can code, really? Have you seen their motorsport division Unless they invest in the software development teams to continually maintain the codebase, they will come unstuck. For that to happen, there has to be a huge shift in the mindset of these existing manufacturers and the willingness to invest... Which is something they're not used to doing.
This is where Tesla more than have the edge!
Like I said before, the 'Old School' lot are used to 'nailing' stuff together, shoving it out the door and then forgetting it. The dealer network is capable of looking after the vehicles but they're going to need someone to develop the software updates & patches, to respond to the vulnerabilities discovered later down the line.
M
RobDickinson said:
Caterham make 600 cars a year and yet you think a 450bhp performance saloon on track is irrelevant?
Stop talking absolute nonsense. You want to benchmark the Model 3? Do you honestly think it would match a 300HP lightweight, in feel, aural pleasure, drama, ultimate lap times etc. I’m saying a Tesla on track is a giggle, but nothing to be taken seriously. About as relevant as a Range Rover on track. But do tell me when any Tesla manages a lap of more than 2 mins, or perhaps a single lap of the ring. I don’t suppose that’s happened has it? It’s actually pretty funny. In that event the Tesla was far from a ‘track software upgrade’. Because to make a car handle you require a firm grip of chassis design and a bit of history. Not to mention the suspension, brakes and tyres, these things have a slight problem being downloaded you see?
As has been said, when Porsche and BMW start to focus on the Tesla cars you’ll see them disappear. Maybe they have a future as a technology partner, maybe BMW etc will just buy the guys from them. Either way, i wouldn’t bet on the long term for that division.
RobDickinson said:
Ah the long rumored not yet seen #teslakiller
Do you think Tesla are the pinnacle? I don't, sorry.Are you not aware of the mule EV X3, or that BMW have trademarked i3,4,5 and 7, not to mention the carbon innovation and 12 all EV cars and I3 hybrids by 2025. BMW, being a proper company, not some fly by night plaything have stated that it's not 'viable' to make money from EV at the moment. Tesla don't care, because they are not a proper car company, their losses don't matter to them.
BMW said:
A new generation of synchronous electric motors, built in-house by BMW, will range from small 134 horsepower units for front-wheel-drive vehicles, to large 400 horsepower units for rear-wheel-drive models. Because these motors are so compact – not much larger than a milk crate – two or three can be packed into one car, providing all-wheel drive and over 800 hp in high-end vehicles.
It's a shame you are such a Tesla fanboy you can't appreciate others are innovating. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff