RE: Tesla Model 3 gets new Track Mode
Discussion
Most of the difference in insurance premiums between different models and modifications is down to the type of person who buys/performs them rather than the car itself being more dangerous. I don't think this type of update will change the buying demographic significantly, at least considering new buyers.
So if such developments make Model-3s more desirable to dangerous drivers yes, it'll push up premiums.
So if such developments make Model-3s more desirable to dangerous drivers yes, it'll push up premiums.
camel_landy said:
Or think of it this way...
e.g. To begin with, Tesla may have would down the power output from the batteries, to prevent the wiring from melting something, shorting and then catching fire!! After looking at the figures, they may have decided they can dial things up by 5%...
I Dunno... But I don't think it's cynical.
M
Tesla have indeed done this several times before, increasing performance etc by reducing unnecessary limits etce.g. To begin with, Tesla may have would down the power output from the batteries, to prevent the wiring from melting something, shorting and then catching fire!! After looking at the figures, they may have decided they can dial things up by 5%...
I Dunno... But I don't think it's cynical.
M
RobDickinson said:
Same track, same driver...
1:18:73 Lamborghini Huracan Performante
1:19:07 Nissan GT-R Nismo R35
1:21:49 Tesla Model 3 Performance w/Track Mode
1:21:74 Porsche Cayman GT4
1:23:73 BMW M4
1:26:37 BMW M235i
1:28:00 Tesla Model S P85
It is impressive. Roughly how many laps would the batteries allow it to maintain that pace for? Do many tracks provide for electric cars at this point in time?1:18:73 Lamborghini Huracan Performante
1:19:07 Nissan GT-R Nismo R35
1:21:49 Tesla Model 3 Performance w/Track Mode
1:21:74 Porsche Cayman GT4
1:23:73 BMW M4
1:26:37 BMW M235i
1:28:00 Tesla Model S P85
I would have thought having access to free performance upgrades should be the stuff of legend's on here of all places.
Edited by gigglebug on Friday 9th November 22:40
Moore's law stuff here imho.
I remember a thread recently that was along the lines of 'where have all the boy racers/ tuners gone?'.
Admittedly, they haven't gone to Tesla (yet) but the rate of progress is such that actual 'mechanical' tuning is already looking somewhat old-hat.
How many short years are we from 'downloading'/ 'hacking' a performance tune on our (likely electric) cars?
I'm totally up for it, in the way I'm up for the latest smartphone. I'll keep my mechanical fossil fuel burner for the same reasons I keep my old Omega mechanical watch.
Once we get 'proper' affordable AMG/ M Sport fully electric cars with performance chops, the real innovation will begin.
I have no anxieties about this, but then I've actually gone so far as to watch Formula E live so my opinions can probably be disregarded...
I remember a thread recently that was along the lines of 'where have all the boy racers/ tuners gone?'.
Admittedly, they haven't gone to Tesla (yet) but the rate of progress is such that actual 'mechanical' tuning is already looking somewhat old-hat.
How many short years are we from 'downloading'/ 'hacking' a performance tune on our (likely electric) cars?
I'm totally up for it, in the way I'm up for the latest smartphone. I'll keep my mechanical fossil fuel burner for the same reasons I keep my old Omega mechanical watch.
Once we get 'proper' affordable AMG/ M Sport fully electric cars with performance chops, the real innovation will begin.
I have no anxieties about this, but then I've actually gone so far as to watch Formula E live so my opinions can probably be disregarded...
rodericb said:
Come on Rob...... citation needed 
Sure, here you go. https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow-springs-stre...
RobDickinson said:
rodericb said:
Come on Rob...... citation needed
Sure, here you go. https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow-springs-stre...
Edit: can't see the Model 3 time in the list....
Oops, here it is: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-3/2019...
Edited by rodericb on Saturday 10th November 01:51
Even the first 1'23.9 time it set was pretty great...
However, I SUSPECT that the tire and brake upgrade(which don't update over the air) had quite a bit more to do with the (less than 3 second) time reduction; than did the software update.
From above article:
"—software-flashed with its latest Track mode nervous system and mounted with 10mm-wider Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s and track-friendly Brembo brake pads—"
Before the test:
Randy said of the Model 3:
"It’s very easy to get understeer, the car’s handling is sometimes inconsistent, and there’s something weird happening when I lift off the brake."
"It turns in quickly, especially with throttle lift, but there’s not a ton of feel from the front end. Get to the power too early, and the handling just devolves into massive understeer."
https://insideevs.com/model-3-track-mode-passes-fe...
However, I SUSPECT that the tire and brake upgrade(which don't update over the air) had quite a bit more to do with the (less than 3 second) time reduction; than did the software update.
From above article:
"—software-flashed with its latest Track mode nervous system and mounted with 10mm-wider Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s and track-friendly Brembo brake pads—"
Before the test:
Randy said of the Model 3:
"It’s very easy to get understeer, the car’s handling is sometimes inconsistent, and there’s something weird happening when I lift off the brake."
"It turns in quickly, especially with throttle lift, but there’s not a ton of feel from the front end. Get to the power too early, and the handling just devolves into massive understeer."
https://insideevs.com/model-3-track-mode-passes-fe...
Some "interesting" takes on this.
But before some crucify Tesla too much, maybe it's worth thinking back to the dark old days? Are any of you old enough to remember that to gain additional performance we had to mess around with cams, carbs, compression, ignition timers, head work, etc, all by hand?
We now live in a world where our cars can be "remapped", to liberate significant performance. Look what companies like Revo et al do to cars like the supercharged 3.0 audi's that Chris Harris compared with its RS sibling. And that was done without a single spanner in sight.
So why the aggro when Tesla bring over-the-air updates? This is just another step along the way, and surely a good thing for consumers?
But before some crucify Tesla too much, maybe it's worth thinking back to the dark old days? Are any of you old enough to remember that to gain additional performance we had to mess around with cams, carbs, compression, ignition timers, head work, etc, all by hand?
We now live in a world where our cars can be "remapped", to liberate significant performance. Look what companies like Revo et al do to cars like the supercharged 3.0 audi's that Chris Harris compared with its RS sibling. And that was done without a single spanner in sight.
So why the aggro when Tesla bring over-the-air updates? This is just another step along the way, and surely a good thing for consumers?
camel_landy said:
Usget said:
..I think it's a little cynical to incrementally improve a car in this way. It's making it as good as it could have been in the first place.
Or think of it this way...As we're in the very early stages of EV adoption, when the car is released, they don't actually know the limits and the longevity of the parts. It wouldn't surprise me to find (especially with the US 'litigation culture') that some of the systems configurations are erring on the side of caution. It isn't until the cars have been in use and have fed back the telemetry, that they are able to analyse the results and figure they can 'tweak' things a little.
e.g. To begin with, Tesla may have would down the power output from the batteries, to prevent the wiring from melting something, shorting and then catching fire!! After looking at the figures, they may have decided they can dial things up by 5%...
I Dunno... But I don't think it's cynical.
M
But everything Tesla do, contributes to their "car as a smart device" narrative. The gimmicks on the ICE, the flappy doors on the Model X, the OTA upgrades - it's a testbed for a new business model for the auto industry. They're doing it with performance upgrades now, but you wait until you can "subscribe" to heated seats or 4wd - the hardware is there, but you have to pay a monthly fee to enable it.
I'm certainly not crucifying Tesla for it, I think they've done incredible things to make EVs not only acceptable but desirable.
big_rob_sydney said:
Some "interesting" takes on this.
But before some crucify Tesla too much, maybe it's worth thinking back to the dark old days? Are any of you old enough to remember that to gain additional performance we had to mess around with cams, carbs, compression, ignition timers, head work, etc, all by hand?
We now live in a world where our cars can be "remapped", to liberate significant performance. Look what companies like Revo et al do to cars like the supercharged 3.0 audi's that Chris Harris compared with its RS sibling. And that was done without a single spanner in sight.
So why the aggro when Tesla bring over-the-air updates? This is just another step along the way, and surely a good thing for consumers?
Like others I believe this is just another bit of marketing spaff for Mr Musks playbrand. I think Tesla’s days are numbered to be frank, we’ve already seen the likes of BMW and Jaguar, let alone Porsche really ploughing money into EV. I think it’s pretty sad, there’s nothing I desire less than a silent, heavy car with lots of electronics, but oil isn’t going to last forever. Why do people watch F1 rather than the E championship thing, because it’s more evocative I’ll wager. Give it five years and we’ll see if I’m right. An electric commuter car on track, nope, it’s just silly.But before some crucify Tesla too much, maybe it's worth thinking back to the dark old days? Are any of you old enough to remember that to gain additional performance we had to mess around with cams, carbs, compression, ignition timers, head work, etc, all by hand?
We now live in a world where our cars can be "remapped", to liberate significant performance. Look what companies like Revo et al do to cars like the supercharged 3.0 audi's that Chris Harris compared with its RS sibling. And that was done without a single spanner in sight.
So why the aggro when Tesla bring over-the-air updates? This is just another step along the way, and surely a good thing for consumers?
camel_landy said:
tr3a said:
Tesla is developing its cars at breakneck speed, through software. New software can transform brakes, acceleration, handling, everything, and it's all rolled out over the air to customers as soon as it's ready. You don't need to wait for a new model car and buy it to get all the goodies. You get into your Tesla one morning and it's a better car. Free. So far, no other carmaker is doing this and that's baffling to me. The dinosaurs just keep doing what they've been doing for the last century, as if nothing is happening. It's also baffling journalists.
Well, it's not that baffling...Essentially it boils down to the existing manufacturers being... Well... Manufacturers. All they want to do is 'nail' a load of stuff together, push it out of the door and leave the after sales support to their dealer network. They don't get modern tech, the issues around 'systems integration', 'security', 'patching', etc... They simply don't want to put the investment into supporting the products once they go out the door and are trying to apply a manufacturing mentality to modern day IT Systems... Which just isn't working.
FWIW - If you've not already done it, do a quick search for "car hacking" - You might find it a little alarming!!
Meanwhile, Tesla have taken the opposite approach, started with a load of IT geeks (he has recruited some big names) and got them to redesign from the ground up. They have built in mechanisms for updating systems securely, they understand software life cycles, testing, security, etc... etc... They 'Get it'.
Musk also understands the need for infrastructure to keep the things moving too, hence the 'Supercharger Network', solar roof panels, domestic batteries, etc...
Having worked in both industries, I'm not surprised in the slightest.
M
However, whilst great to "get stuff out there" it does mean there's a load of shonky software which is continuously, and often hastily patched... Sure, sometimes there's an improvement on the way but the constant bug fixes etc.
This is most of my life, battling between needing the software delivered and out there, vs. being solid and reliable.
I feel when software was delivered on floppy discs and then CD's, the integrity was much better as it had to be. The same with "traditional" manufacturers - they are used to "getting it right" for the most part, and the objective is to get it right from the bat.
Whilst it may be admirable for Tesla to take this software approach, they're not a software house, or a tech company - they make money by shifting metal, which is what the traditional guys know - the more metal you move, the more revenue you get. Rolling out continual updates and fixes doesn't bring in cash. All of the big OEM's have vast IT teams, and some amazing expertise, and could easily hire whoever they needed if there was a business case to push out updates OTA... But there's little commercial reason to do so, from what I can see.
Just my 2p, as constantly updating software because of a billion patches drives me nuts!
ash73 said:
Pointless gimmick, who wants to drive a 2 tonne milk float around a track? The battery (and brakes) will probably last half a dozen laps.
The model 3 weighs about the same as a BMW 3 series, the brakes are mostly regen so will last way longer than any equivalent ICE. The battery will last much longer than 6 laps.But you knew that didn't you
tr3a said:
Tesla is developing its cars at breakneck speed, through software. New software can transform brakes, acceleration, handling, everything, and it's all rolled out over the air to customers as soon as it's ready. You don't need to wait for a new model car and buy it to get all the goodies. You get into your Tesla one morning and it's a better car. Free. So far, no other carmaker is doing this and that's baffling to me. The dinosaurs just keep doing what they've been doing for the last century, as if nothing is happening. It's also baffling journalists.
Sounds like a Tesla salesman talking on an infomercial. The regular car manufacturers are taking their time to get the technology right. Aston will be using motors made by radial which are 98% efficient. The current efficieny level is 90%. These helped VW smash the pike peaks record.
Williams have developed a carbon skateboard architecture, part of which will be used.
Jaguar have already gone past Tesla in terms of packging, use of clustered batteries and the chassis construction, not to mention looks.
You cannot even get a model 3, they look terrible, are badly made and Tesla has made how many electric cars, compared to BMW and Toyota? Take a long look at how the i3 is made.
This is just another gimic to keep muricans happy.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff