RE: Tesla Model 3 gets new Track Mode
Discussion
yonex said:
Focus on the Tesla doing its daily white goods job and refine that. Don’t waste time and money on ridiculous notions like ‘ultra-Uber-wowser upgrade 1.7’, it’s all very....American.
That would make a lot of owners of “quick” ICE cars feel better. The thought that an electric family barge has enough acceleration to make their car look a bit silly might be a bit annoying.yonex said:
I had the i3 for a week when the M3 ate its actuators. It genuinely made me ill on the commute. I changed it to eco pro and it was better but still not the best. Maybe in time you'd get used to it but it was very strange.
But I thought that BMW was the messiah of manufacturers, about to release wonderful EVs that will piss on Teslas in every respect. Now you say the i3 makes you car-sick....
yonex said:
Model 3’s may be being built but they’re not available now are they?
In the US you can get a brand new Perfomance Model 3 in around 4 weeks excluding shipping. Your certainly get one before Xmas if you ordered now.European type approval is well underway, and first UK deliveries will be around this time next year.
big_rob_sydney said:
Some "interesting" takes on this.
But before some crucify Tesla too much, maybe it's worth thinking back to the dark old days? Are any of you old enough to remember that to gain additional performance we had to mess around with cams, carbs, compression, ignition timers, head work, etc, all by hand?
We now live in a world where our cars can be "remapped", to liberate significant performance. Look what companies like Revo et al do to cars like the supercharged 3.0 audi's that Chris Harris compared with its RS sibling. And that was done without a single spanner in sight.
So why the aggro when Tesla bring over-the-air updates? This is just another step along the way, and surely a good thing for consumers?
What Tesla are doing is not like in the olden days of changing cams and so on. It's like your second para of remapping. The hardware is there, the software written to use it does use it fully. Although this track mode car does have some upgraded mechanical parts (as did those model S's capable of those extra acceleration modes). Tesla have gone hard on the remote update thing but then they do have a foot firmly in the software company side of things. And software companies do like to release product which isn't quite all there. Yeah it functions but it might be hastily written to get it out the door and sales revenue pays for some ongoing development. Note too with the hardware thing is that there are years worth of Model S's out there which don't have the hardware to support things like "autopilot".But before some crucify Tesla too much, maybe it's worth thinking back to the dark old days? Are any of you old enough to remember that to gain additional performance we had to mess around with cams, carbs, compression, ignition timers, head work, etc, all by hand?
We now live in a world where our cars can be "remapped", to liberate significant performance. Look what companies like Revo et al do to cars like the supercharged 3.0 audi's that Chris Harris compared with its RS sibling. And that was done without a single spanner in sight.
So why the aggro when Tesla bring over-the-air updates? This is just another step along the way, and surely a good thing for consumers?
Any aggro is probably not about the OTA updates as such, but rather that the product delivered isn't spot-on from day one. As another poster wrote, when there wasn't the infrastructure to provide updates with such ease the products were (probably, we hope) built to be their best from the outset. Everyone has varying opinions about this, some people even love to have warranty work done to their car like it's some sort of VIP buyer perk.
otolith said:
yonex said:
Focus on the Tesla doing its daily white goods job and refine that. Don’t waste time and money on ridiculous notions like ‘ultra-Uber-wowser upgrade 1.7’, it’s all very....American.
That would make a lot of owners of “quick” ICE cars feel better. The thought that an electric family barge has enough acceleration to make their car look a bit silly might be a bit annoying.https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/gtasuperla...
otolith said:
That would make a lot of owners of “quick” ICE cars feel better. The thought that an electric family barge has enough acceleration to make their car look a bit silly might be a bit annoying.
It goes back to the point of you enjoy driving or not? For me an electric car is just a piece of transport. It’s actu pretty funny that EV owners feel the need to constantly quote performance. I’m sure you’d rather own a Model 3 than an F40, it’s quicker to 60 after all? manracer said:
The M3P and track mode are already annoying ICE owners in the USA:
https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/gtasuperla...
Sounds fair, entered an event, didn’t comply with the rules, got kicked out. https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/gtasuperla...
yonex said:
otolith said:
That would make a lot of owners of “quick” ICE cars feel better. The thought that an electric family barge has enough acceleration to make their car look a bit silly might be a bit annoying.
It goes back to the point of you enjoy driving or not? For me an electric car is just a piece of transport. It’s actu pretty funny that EV owners feel the need to constantly quote performance. I’m sure you’d rather own a Model 3 than an F40, it’s quicker to 60 after all? Again, the i3, whilst not the last word in feel, is a reasonable steer... Personally, if I could get the i3 powertrain into an Elise I'd be a very happy bunny! Or have the low centre of gravity, plus good suspension and handling, nice balance without a mass of outright grip and you could have a lot fun
RemarkLima said:
Disagree there - decent steering feel, decent handling all make for a pleasurable driving experience - a decent soundtrack can be god, but so few cars have anything remotely soulful that it's really secondary, unless you just like "loud".
Again, the i3, whilst not the last word in feel, is a reasonable steer... Personally, if I could get the i3 powertrain into an Elise I'd be a very happy bunny! Or have the low centre of gravity, plus good suspension and handling, nice balance without a mass of outright grip and you could have a lot fun
The i3 handles better than you’d think I agree, but the regen gave me travel sickness, lots of others have reported the same. I did feel the performance wasn’t as vivid as people said, one trick pony in that regard. Mine had a range of 80 odd miles and I was happy to give it back! For me an engine is an integral and interesting part of the car. I appreciate how power is made and the thought of pressing an actuator leaves me a bit cold. EV are just totally soulless to me, one day I may be forced to take one again but the fun car will be the ‘horribly outdated’ ice. Again, the i3, whilst not the last word in feel, is a reasonable steer... Personally, if I could get the i3 powertrain into an Elise I'd be a very happy bunny! Or have the low centre of gravity, plus good suspension and handling, nice balance without a mass of outright grip and you could have a lot fun
yonex said:
manracer said:
The M3P and track mode are already annoying ICE owners in the USA:
https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/gtasuperla...
Sounds fair, entered an event, didn’t comply with the rules, got kicked out. https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/gtasuperla...
smilo996 said:
tr3a said:
Tesla is developing its cars at breakneck speed, through software. New software can transform brakes, acceleration, handling, everything, and it's all rolled out over the air to customers as soon as it's ready. You don't need to wait for a new model car and buy it to get all the goodies. You get into your Tesla one morning and it's a better car. Free. So far, no other carmaker is doing this and that's baffling to me. The dinosaurs just keep doing what they've been doing for the last century, as if nothing is happening. It's also baffling journalists.
Sounds like a Tesla salesman talking on an infomercial. The regular car manufacturers are taking their time to get the technology right. Aston will be using motors made by radial which are 98% efficient. The current efficieny level is 90%. These helped VW smash the pike peaks record.
Williams have developed a carbon skateboard architecture, part of which will be used.
Jaguar have already gone past Tesla in terms of packging, use of clustered batteries and the chassis construction, not to mention looks.
You cannot even get a model 3, they look terrible, are badly made and Tesla has made how many electric cars, compared to BMW and Toyota? Take a long look at how the i3 is made.
This is just another gimic to keep muricans happy.
You pay additional for top Spec then find it doesn’t have your road on it so you pay £300 for some new disks to go in the disk changer you carry around in the boot (most days not doing anything).
I’m dramatising a little bit we’ve all been there
rodericb said:
yonex said:
manracer said:
The M3P and track mode are already annoying ICE owners in the USA:
https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/gtasuperla...
Sounds fair, entered an event, didn’t comply with the rules, got kicked out. https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/gtasuperla...
rodericb said:
yonex said:
manracer said:
The M3P and track mode are already annoying ICE owners in the USA:
https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/gtasuperla...
Sounds fair, entered an event, didn’t comply with the rules, got kicked out. https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/gtasuperla...
That said racing rules have been bent, interpreted, argued about since racing began.
manracer said:
I don't know every detail but I do know they took (and retained) the entry fee knowing it was an EV, only DQing after a protest. It's just so salty.
It's a bit off that they let them enter knowing full well what it was and then took away the podium. However equally, atleast they let them race. Prehaps what they should have done was let them race with the class, but exclude them from the results from the off. In effect creating a new class, with one entrant, and then merging the classes.
Still very interesting none the less.
As a 2001 plate 330ci owner, I hope the 'track mode' simulated LSD offering it slightly more developed and exciting than mine, but it expect it is. Maybe I should get a software update!
Daniel
yonex said:
otolith said:
That would make a lot of owners of “quick” ICE cars feel better. The thought that an electric family barge has enough acceleration to make their car look a bit silly might be a bit annoying.
It goes back to the point of you enjoy driving or not? For me an electric car is just a piece of transport. It’s actu pretty funny that EV owners feel the need to constantly quote performance. I’m sure you’d rather own a Model 3 than an F40, it’s quicker to 60 after all? It’s incredibly narrow minded to think that you can’t or shouldn’t make a car which is fast and fun to drive with electric power.
(and can I have a 355 instead of an F40 please, I’m sure it’s lots of fun but I really don’t like turbos)
otolith said:
I enjoy driving. As a component of that I enjoy using a characterful engine and a manual gearbox. Both of those things are on the path to extinction, EVs or not. So if it comes down to a car with a turbocharged four pot and automatic transmission or a faster car with better throttle response and electric power, I’ll take the electric one thanks.
It’s incredibly narrow minded to think that you can’t or shouldn’t make a car which is fast and fun to drive with electric power.
(and can I have a 355 instead of an F40 please, I’m sure it’s lots of fun but I really don’t like turbos)
The cars I really enjoy are lightweights, currently there are no lightweight EV’s. Going fast is only half the equation. It’s incredibly narrow minded to think that you can’t or shouldn’t make a car which is fast and fun to drive with electric power.
(and can I have a 355 instead of an F40 please, I’m sure it’s lots of fun but I really don’t like turbos)
yonex said:
otolith said:
I enjoy driving. As a component of that I enjoy using a characterful engine and a manual gearbox. Both of those things are on the path to extinction, EVs or not. So if it comes down to a car with a turbocharged four pot and automatic transmission or a faster car with better throttle response and electric power, I’ll take the electric one thanks.
It’s incredibly narrow minded to think that you can’t or shouldn’t make a car which is fast and fun to drive with electric power.
(and can I have a 355 instead of an F40 please, I’m sure it’s lots of fun but I really don’t like turbos)
The cars I really enjoy are lightweights, currently there are no lightweight EV’s. Going fast is only half the equation. It’s incredibly narrow minded to think that you can’t or shouldn’t make a car which is fast and fun to drive with electric power.
(and can I have a 355 instead of an F40 please, I’m sure it’s lots of fun but I really don’t like turbos)
Other than an Elise (still getting heavy), Caterhams, and light weight specials, there are no cars at all, EV or not... And what any sane manufacturer will realise very quickly, that no one wants light weight specials - no one cares about weight, or steering feel, just the latest infotainment stuff.
I don't see this changing, regardless of powertrain.
RemarkLima said:
There's few lightweight cars full stop... The small saloon market is all around 1400 - 1500 KG if you're lucky, Porsches are all 1300 KG plus, with a 911 being 1500 KG.
Other than an Elise (still getting heavy), Caterhams, and light weight specials, there are no cars at all, EV or not... And what any sane manufacturer will realise very quickly, that no one wants light weight specials - no one cares about weight, or steering feel, just the latest infotainment stuff.
I don't see this changing, regardless of powertrain.
But you can but Carerhams and the like, there are no EV equivalents, that’s the point? Other than an Elise (still getting heavy), Caterhams, and light weight specials, there are no cars at all, EV or not... And what any sane manufacturer will realise very quickly, that no one wants light weight specials - no one cares about weight, or steering feel, just the latest infotainment stuff.
I don't see this changing, regardless of powertrain.
yonex said:
RemarkLima said:
There's few lightweight cars full stop... The small saloon market is all around 1400 - 1500 KG if you're lucky, Porsches are all 1300 KG plus, with a 911 being 1500 KG.
Other than an Elise (still getting heavy), Caterhams, and light weight specials, there are no cars at all, EV or not... And what any sane manufacturer will realise very quickly, that no one wants light weight specials - no one cares about weight, or steering feel, just the latest infotainment stuff.
I don't see this changing, regardless of powertrain.
But you can but Carerhams and the like, there are no EV equivalents, that’s the point? Other than an Elise (still getting heavy), Caterhams, and light weight specials, there are no cars at all, EV or not... And what any sane manufacturer will realise very quickly, that no one wants light weight specials - no one cares about weight, or steering feel, just the latest infotainment stuff.
I don't see this changing, regardless of powertrain.
In fact, you are such a tiny market, that no one will cater for your desires and needs as they are currently catered for by Caterham et al. If, by some bizarre reason, the masses suddenly decide that they want lightweight, good handling, sports cars, an EV will be made to suit... But you're going to have a long wait
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