Cyclists without lights - something needs to be done
Discussion
cb1965 said:
Look I know the usual mob will roll their eyes, but this has actually come from my partner's 12 year old daughter who did a school project about cycle safety (really good idea by the school). Anyway she was with her mum yesterday travelling a journey of about 12 miles at 6:30pm, her mum was driving and she decided to record the number of cyclists without lights while her mum drove. In short she saw 102 cyclists of which she recorded 34 riding without any form of lighting or hi-vis clothing.
Thoughts?
When are the findings being published? Thoughts?
Miserablegit said:
Yup that's right - it's someone else's fault....cyclists shouldn't have to take responsibility for their own safety......
Not saying that, I'm saying it's about priorities. If cb has a nice modern 4x4 he might be one of those dazzling other drivers, whilst indoctrinating his children to hate cyclists. Cyclists should indeed take responsibility for their safety because they might harm themselves, meanwhile those of us in the group that predominantly harms others, by the tens or hundreds of thousands, are getting more and more dangerous lighting.
And as a pedestrian, do you follow the HC on making yourself visible, or do you not have to take responsibility for your safety?
The solution to cyclists riding without lights in the dark is simple enough....... it's all about deterrents.
Don't bother with on-the-spot fines in these days of under-staffed police forces.
Get caught riding without lights and the bike gets confiscated.
No discussion. No debate. No pleading.
The bike goes into the back of a police van to be crushed later.
Watch the problem disappear as if by magic.
The plan could be extended to the morons who ignore red traffic lights.
Don't bother with on-the-spot fines in these days of under-staffed police forces.
Get caught riding without lights and the bike gets confiscated.
No discussion. No debate. No pleading.
The bike goes into the back of a police van to be crushed later.
Watch the problem disappear as if by magic.
The plan could be extended to the morons who ignore red traffic lights.
eAyeAddio said:
The solution to cyclists riding without lights in the dark is simple enough....... it's all about deterrents.
Don't bother with on-the-spot fines in these days of under-staffed police forces.
Get caught riding without lights and the bike gets confiscated.
No discussion. No debate. No pleading.
The bike goes into the back of a police van to be crushed later.
Watch the problem disappear as if by magic.
The plan could be extended to the morons who ignore red traffic lights.
Why not apply the same to all road traffic offences? Speeding, red light jumping, parking on the pavement, driving with fog lights on, all these would disappear as well...Don't bother with on-the-spot fines in these days of under-staffed police forces.
Get caught riding without lights and the bike gets confiscated.
No discussion. No debate. No pleading.
The bike goes into the back of a police van to be crushed later.
Watch the problem disappear as if by magic.
The plan could be extended to the morons who ignore red traffic lights.
heebeegeetee said:
Not saying that, I'm saying it's about priorities. If cb has a nice modern 4x4 he might be one of those dazzling other drivers, whilst indoctrinating his children to hate cyclists.
Cyclists should indeed take responsibility for their safety because they might harm themselves, meanwhile those of us in the group that predominantly harms others, by the tens or hundreds of thousands, are getting more and more dangerous lighting.
And as a pedestrian, do you follow the HC on making yourself visible, or do you not have to take responsibility for your safety?
Which cars have dangerous lighting?Cyclists should indeed take responsibility for their safety because they might harm themselves, meanwhile those of us in the group that predominantly harms others, by the tens or hundreds of thousands, are getting more and more dangerous lighting.
And as a pedestrian, do you follow the HC on making yourself visible, or do you not have to take responsibility for your safety?
eAyeAddio said:
The solution to cyclists riding without lights in the dark is simple enough....... it's all about deterrents.
Don't bother with on-the-spot fines in these days of under-staffed police forces.
Get caught riding without lights and the bike gets confiscated.
No discussion. No debate. No pleading.
The bike goes into the back of a police van to be crushed later.
Watch the problem disappear as if by magic.
The plan could be extended to the morons who ignore red traffic lights.
The solution to DRIVER BREAKING THE SPEED LIMIT is simple enough....... it's all about deterrents.Don't bother with on-the-spot fines in these days of under-staffed police forces.
Get caught riding without lights and the bike gets confiscated.
No discussion. No debate. No pleading.
The bike goes into the back of a police van to be crushed later.
Watch the problem disappear as if by magic.
The plan could be extended to the morons who ignore red traffic lights.
Don't bother with on-the-spot fines in these days of under-staffed police forces.
Get caught SPEEDING and the CAR gets confiscated.
No discussion. No debate. No pleading.
The CAR GETS TOWED to be crushed later.
Watch the problem disappear as if by magic.
The plan could be extended to the morons who ignore red traffic lights.
heebeegeetee said:
Not saying that, I'm saying it's about priorities. If cb has a nice modern 4x4 he might be one of those dazzling other drivers, whilst indoctrinating his children to hate cyclists.
Cyclists should indeed take responsibility for their safety because they might harm themselves, meanwhile those of us in the group that predominantly harms others, by the tens or hundreds of thousands, are getting more and more dangerous lighting.
And as a pedestrian, do you follow the HC on making yourself visible, or do you not have to take responsibility for your safety?
If CB has a nice modern 4x4 it will,Cyclists should indeed take responsibility for their safety because they might harm themselves, meanwhile those of us in the group that predominantly harms others, by the tens or hundreds of thousands, are getting more and more dangerous lighting.
And as a pedestrian, do you follow the HC on making yourself visible, or do you not have to take responsibility for your safety?
no doubt, be fitted with lights that comply with regulations. It will also, no doubt, be more unattractive than it needs to be as its design needs to take into account other road users who don’t take responsibility for their own safety
On the occasions I am a pedestrian I keep to the pavement and cross at well lit crossing points. I acccept that despite being powerfully built I’ll come off worse in an altercation with a vehicle and thus take responsibility for my own safety. I don’t walk miles on a road without lights for instance.
It really isn’t difficult - cyclists need to take responsibility for their own safety. A lot of them do and a lot of them don’t.
giantdefy said:
The solution to DRIVER BREAKING THE SPEED LIMIT is simple enough....... it's all about deterrents.
Don't bother with on-the-spot fines in these days of under-staffed police forces.
Get caught SPEEDING and the CAR gets confiscated.
No discussion. No debate. No pleading.
The CAR GETS TOWED to be crushed later.
Watch the problem disappear as if by magic.
The plan could be extended to the morons who ignore red traffic lights.
It works for Judge Dredd.Don't bother with on-the-spot fines in these days of under-staffed police forces.
Get caught SPEEDING and the CAR gets confiscated.
No discussion. No debate. No pleading.
The CAR GETS TOWED to be crushed later.
Watch the problem disappear as if by magic.
The plan could be extended to the morons who ignore red traffic lights.
pbarlow0032 said:
I’m a “cyclist”, and I also cycle to work some days for much of the year (depending on whether I can be bothered). Last night was my first after dark commute home of the season, it’s 14 miles, 4 on the road and 10 on unlit cycle track (disused railway line that is now part of the C2c route). I didn’t pass a single cyclist, but I did pass 3 separate people walking dogs. They were wearing dark clothes, and neither them nor the dogs had any form of lighting. Surely that’s as stupid as the cyclists with no lights? Should we force them to wear lights and high vis too?
I agree that cyclists should make themselves seen, it’s called common sense. As someone said earlier, you can’t educate the terminally stupid
Same for me. Part of my commute is on an unlit canal towpath and the majority of pedestrians I see have zero lights or bright clothing. So you don’t see them til quite late on, even with good lights. One of the reasons I prefer cycling on the roads when it’s dark. I agree that cyclists should make themselves seen, it’s called common sense. As someone said earlier, you can’t educate the terminally stupid
As others have said, the ‘cyclists’ I see who have no lights are usually student types or scruffy looking people who probably have much bigger issues in their lives. Folk who are actually into cycling and commute regularly are usually lit up like an Xmas tree.
blueg33 said:
Steve91 said:
To play devils advocate, I see several cars on my drive home in the dark with only their DRLs on, rather than the headlights.
Whether on a bike or in a car, you can't educate the stupid.
If the area has street lighting use of headlights is not obligatoryWhether on a bike or in a car, you can't educate the stupid.
Education is key: and i'm pleased to see the OPs daughters school doing their bit to try and keep them safe. I'm not sure if people (peds or cyclists) understand how hard they are to see without lights at times - if you have good awareness it's not a massive problem, but not everyone does and no-one does all of the time...
As for giving lights away for free it's not as if they are expensive or difficult to fit/remove or carry around in your pocket just in case - no excuse for not having them. You really need to take responsibility for your own safety as the more vulnerable road user else let Darwinism do it's thing (as long as it doesn't scratch my car).
24lemons said:
When I was younger kids used to remove the reflectors as they didn’t look very cool.
I must admit that is still the first thing I do when I buy a bike and then I swap out the pedals (if they come with them), SPDs usually don't have reflectors on them which is very naughty according the the book. The shoes tend to have reflective bits, as will some of the clothing or bag possibly, but I always make sure i'm lit up to see and be seen.Cyclists should have lights, but given the number of drivers that seem to be totally unable to see cyclists in broad daylight lights don’t make much difference. Many police forces do crackdowns at this time of year on cyclists. What needs to be sorted is the amount of cars with broken headlights. I counted 8 out of 70 cars on the way home last Friday, on unlit country roads. Cyclops cars are f
kingg dangerous.
kingg dangerous.Surprise, surprise the usual suspects are post failing attempts and sarcasm and denying it happens on any significant level while metaphorically patting each other on the back as ever. What a pity, given they're so proud of the fact they cycle, that they don't take what so many others, including some other cyclists, see as a problem seriously, but the then it's these sort of uncaring selfish attitudes from so many that leads us to the situation we see today and not just as far as cycling in the dark with no lights goes either.
Miserablegit said:
heebeegeetee said:
To be fair, you are the leader of the mob - well, the other mob, anyway - so I don't know what you've got against mobs. 
My thoughts? I've been driving for 40 years now and I still haven't had a problem seeing cyclists, unlit or otherwise. I'm 60 now and am aware the old eyesight isn't what it was, but I still haven't yet to come even remotely close to having a problem so I'm struggling to accept it's that much of a problem, even if common sense says otherwise.
All of us here are pedestrians at times, including cb and his daughter and his wife and all of the other children and parents at their school and so on. The advice in the HC for pedestrians at night is fairly clear https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/rules-for-pedestri... but we all disregard it.
CB, maybe next time you and your family get out of your car at night, perhaps you'd like to get your daughter to do a survey on how much reflective stuff other pedestrians have, starting perhaps with her own family? And the usual answers of pedestrians not being proper road users, and pavements etc don't explain how so many car/pedestrian collisions take place, with higher fatality rates and numbers than cyclists.
What IS a problem nowadays though, what I think genuinely is quite a considerable problem, one that genuinely dazzles and reduces visibilty, and which may genuinely hamper the ability to see that unlit cyclist or pedestrian, is LED headlights.
Now, if we could get something done about those, then I think that would be genuine enhancement of road safety and genuinely would be likely to save more than one life.
https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/columnists/john-simi...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43525525 "RAC says new headlights 'blinding drivers' "
"In 2014, investigators reported this as an influence in ten fatal crashes, nearly 70 serious accidents and more than 250 other accidents. Overall, this was an increase of 11 per cent on 2010." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4464138/W...
https://inews.co.uk/news/campaigners-call-dazzling...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/24/driver...
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonab...
Yup that's right - it's someone else's fault....cyclists shouldn't have to take responsibility for their own safety......My thoughts? I've been driving for 40 years now and I still haven't had a problem seeing cyclists, unlit or otherwise. I'm 60 now and am aware the old eyesight isn't what it was, but I still haven't yet to come even remotely close to having a problem so I'm struggling to accept it's that much of a problem, even if common sense says otherwise.
All of us here are pedestrians at times, including cb and his daughter and his wife and all of the other children and parents at their school and so on. The advice in the HC for pedestrians at night is fairly clear https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/rules-for-pedestri... but we all disregard it.
CB, maybe next time you and your family get out of your car at night, perhaps you'd like to get your daughter to do a survey on how much reflective stuff other pedestrians have, starting perhaps with her own family? And the usual answers of pedestrians not being proper road users, and pavements etc don't explain how so many car/pedestrian collisions take place, with higher fatality rates and numbers than cyclists.
What IS a problem nowadays though, what I think genuinely is quite a considerable problem, one that genuinely dazzles and reduces visibilty, and which may genuinely hamper the ability to see that unlit cyclist or pedestrian, is LED headlights.
Now, if we could get something done about those, then I think that would be genuine enhancement of road safety and genuinely would be likely to save more than one life.
https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/columnists/john-simi...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43525525 "RAC says new headlights 'blinding drivers' "
"In 2014, investigators reported this as an influence in ten fatal crashes, nearly 70 serious accidents and more than 250 other accidents. Overall, this was an increase of 11 per cent on 2010." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4464138/W...
https://inews.co.uk/news/campaigners-call-dazzling...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/24/driver...
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonab...
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