RE: Performante on the Nordschleife: Time For Coffee
Discussion
993rsr said:
Having owned mine for 12 years the improvement with subsequent Pilot Super Sport and Pilot Sport Cup 2 on track over the OEM tyres is very, very significant.
Also it’s widely acknowledged the track has got faster over the intervening years.
I may have rose tinted specs to some degree but I would think 20-25 seconds + improvement for the OEM tyres to Cup R and the circuit pace increase is not unrealistic.
I just can't see it being within literally a couple of seconds of the 918 when you consider just how much faster these modern cars are. What did the CGT do around the TG track? Around 1:20 wasn't it? These things will be knocking around 10secs quicker than that over a short lap! Also it’s widely acknowledged the track has got faster over the intervening years.
I may have rose tinted specs to some degree but I would think 20-25 seconds + improvement for the OEM tyres to Cup R and the circuit pace increase is not unrealistic.
Nice car by the way
Olivera said:
Porsche911R said:
He made a lot or errors and forgot to change gear a lot lol
To much bouncing off the limiter along with other errors is why it’s a tad off.
Fast lap all the same but not to the standards these factory drivers seem to do.
The driver won the Nurburgring 24h this year, but perhaps he could be improved with your tuition.To much bouncing off the limiter along with other errors is why it’s a tad off.
Fast lap all the same but not to the standards these factory drivers seem to do.
RacerMike said:
Olivera said:
Porsche911R said:
He made a lot or errors and forgot to change gear a lot lol
To much bouncing off the limiter along with other errors is why it’s a tad off.
Fast lap all the same but not to the standards these factory drivers seem to do.
The driver won the Nurburgring 24h this year, but perhaps he could be improved with your tuition.To much bouncing off the limiter along with other errors is why it’s a tad off.
Fast lap all the same but not to the standards these factory drivers seem to do.
moonigan said:
Olivera said:
The driver won the Nurburgring 24h this year, but perhaps he could be improved with your tuition.
Pwned 
His team came 22nd rather than winning the N24. Fastest driver in the team was Bernd Schneider. Let's not facts spoil a good one line put down though.
Edited by Gandahar on Saturday 10th November 22:29
E65Ross said:
993rsr said:
Having owned mine for 12 years the improvement with subsequent Pilot Super Sport and Pilot Sport Cup 2 on track over the OEM tyres is very, very significant.
Also it’s widely acknowledged the track has got faster over the intervening years.
I may have rose tinted specs to some degree but I would think 20-25 seconds + improvement for the OEM tyres to Cup R and the circuit pace increase is not unrealistic.
I just can't see it being within literally a couple of seconds of the 918 when you consider just how much faster these modern cars are. Also it’s widely acknowledged the track has got faster over the intervening years.
I may have rose tinted specs to some degree but I would think 20-25 seconds + improvement for the OEM tyres to Cup R and the circuit pace increase is not unrealistic.
Gandahar said:
Go check your facts or it may be you that are pwned ?
His team came 22nd rather than winning the N24. Fastest driver in the team was Bernd Schheider. Let's not facts spoil a good one line put down though.
1st or 22nd its moot tbh. The point is still valid.His team came 22nd rather than winning the N24. Fastest driver in the team was Bernd Schheider. Let's not facts spoil a good one line put down though.
Edited by Gandahar on Saturday 10th November 22:23
Gandahar said:
Go check your facts or it may be you that are pwned ?
His team came 22nd rather than winning the N24. Fastest driver in the team was Bernd Schneider. Let's not facts spoil a good one line put down though.
His team did win the class they were competing in, albeit not overall N24 winners but still class winners...His team came 22nd rather than winning the N24. Fastest driver in the team was Bernd Schneider. Let's not facts spoil a good one line put down though.
Gandahar said:
Go check your facts or it may be you that are pwned ?
His team came 22nd rather than winning the N24. Fastest driver in the team was Bernd Schneider. Let's not facts spoil a good one line put down though.
Lol, you do realise there a multiple winners, one per class? He finished 22nd overall but first in SP8T class.His team came 22nd rather than winning the N24. Fastest driver in the team was Bernd Schneider. Let's not facts spoil a good one line put down though.
Edited by Gandahar on Saturday 10th November 22:29
isaldiri said:
Gandahar said:
Go check your facts or it may be you that are pwned ?
His team came 22nd rather than winning the N24. Fastest driver in the team was Bernd Schneider. Let's not facts spoil a good one line put down though.
His team did win the class they were competing in, albeit not overall N24 winners but still class winners...His team came 22nd rather than winning the N24. Fastest driver in the team was Bernd Schneider. Let's not facts spoil a good one line put down though.
Gebhardt has an interesting driving style, and you can criticise all sorts about it, but you can’t really criticise his pace around there. Anyone who’s done a decent number of laps would be able to appreciate that....
993rsr said:
Having owned mine for 12 years the improvement with subsequent Pilot Super Sport and Pilot Sport Cup 2 on track over the OEM tyres is very, very significant.
Also it’s widely acknowledged the track has got faster over the intervening years.
I may have rose tinted specs to some degree but I would think 20-25 seconds + improvement for the OEM tyres to Cup R and the circuit pace increase is not unrealistic.
What hasn't altered in 12 years is human evolution, 620HP in 2006 is the same as 620HP in 2018 and 1400Kg in 2006 is still 1400Kg in 2018.Also it’s widely acknowledged the track has got faster over the intervening years.
I may have rose tinted specs to some degree but I would think 20-25 seconds + improvement for the OEM tyres to Cup R and the circuit pace increase is not unrealistic.
What has altered hugely is tyre technology plus some subtle and discrete smoothing of the Ring's worst corners, which on 13 miles will easily result in 25secs improved time IMO.
EDLT said:
The Porsche times are also slower so clearly they were also cheating, or do they get a free pass?
No press journalist lap could ever match a full blown factory effort with min weight, no traffic, new tires, and infinite laps. But we can look at the difference in lap times to judge how far of an extent did the factory laps go to. Of course, a larger sample size of other tracks would also reveal that. The last Aventador SV which was “supposedly” as fast as a 918 couldn’t get any where near it and in fact was slower than many other super cars that never got near the 7’ Ring standard993rsr said:
What hasn't altered in 12 years is human evolution, 620HP in 2006 is the same as 620HP in 2018 and 1400Kg in 2006 is still 1400Kg in 2018.
What has altered hugely is tyre technology plus some subtle and discrete smoothing of the Ring's worst corners, which on 13 miles will easily result in 25secs improved time IMO.
PDK is worth a few seconds over a manual I suspect. What has altered hugely is tyre technology plus some subtle and discrete smoothing of the Ring's worst corners, which on 13 miles will easily result in 25secs improved time IMO.
Electronic adaptive suspension over a bumpy race track, definitely an advantage.
Better brakes
More downforce.
The CGT didn’t have the Stability system
Taffy66 said:
993rsr said:
Having owned mine for 12 years the improvement with subsequent Pilot Super Sport and Pilot Sport Cup 2 on track over the OEM tyres is very, very significant.
Also it’s widely acknowledged the track has got faster over the intervening years.
I may have rose tinted specs to some degree but I would think 20-25 seconds + improvement for the OEM tyres to Cup R and the circuit pace increase is not unrealistic.
What hasn't altered in 12 years is human evolution, 620HP in 2006 is the same as 620HP in 2018 and 1400Kg in 2006 is still 1400Kg in 2018.Also it’s widely acknowledged the track has got faster over the intervening years.
I may have rose tinted specs to some degree but I would think 20-25 seconds + improvement for the OEM tyres to Cup R and the circuit pace increase is not unrealistic.
What has altered hugely is tyre technology plus some subtle and discrete smoothing of the Ring's worst corners, which on 13 miles will easily result in 25secs improved time IMO.
Its an interesting debate, but whenever I've seen track comparison articles with new and older cars, the older ones have been a little off the pace, even allowing for power to weight ratios etc.
A good track battle was the Porsche 996 GT3 v2 against the Porsche Cayman GTS 981 at Blyton Park posted by EVO Magazine with Jethro at the wheel. Both posted identical times. Both cars weighed a similar amount, but the Cayman was 40 BHP down on power and about 1 sec slower from 0-100 MPH. Assuming the GT3 was running modern up to date tyres, one has to conclude that small gains have been made elsewhere which add up over a lap.
Anyway, the Lambo gets a lot of flak for its Nurburgring time, but I recall that it held the Autocar lap record (beating the 911GT2RS) until the Senna beat it a few weeks back, so its clearly a very good track car.
A good track battle was the Porsche 996 GT3 v2 against the Porsche Cayman GTS 981 at Blyton Park posted by EVO Magazine with Jethro at the wheel. Both posted identical times. Both cars weighed a similar amount, but the Cayman was 40 BHP down on power and about 1 sec slower from 0-100 MPH. Assuming the GT3 was running modern up to date tyres, one has to conclude that small gains have been made elsewhere which add up over a lap.
Anyway, the Lambo gets a lot of flak for its Nurburgring time, but I recall that it held the Autocar lap record (beating the 911GT2RS) until the Senna beat it a few weeks back, so its clearly a very good track car.
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