Discussion
S9JTO said:
Just bit the bullet and bought matching PS4's for the front axle, hopefully it'll balance things out - Note taken, don't listen to random M-lite owners 
The problem with model specific forums is that they tend to act as a little echo chamber.On e90post people raved about Falken 452. It was the performance bargain that everyone would blindly recommend. They were OK tyres but didn't live up to any of the hype.
The z4 forums has people falling over themselves to recommend Uniroyal Rainsports. Again not bad tyres but the trend seems to follow across a lot of forums where they hype up some mid-range tyre as a giant-killer.
I don't think PS4 is a bad recommendation, but replacing a UHP tyre like the MPSS with them is going to be a step back.
I've just learnt to stick to mainstream reviews with side-by-side controlled testing for my information. I'm sure reviews in magazines like Autobild have some degree of sponsorship from the likes of Conti and Michelin I still trust them a lot more than Joe public. Also people like tyrereviews on youtube seem to have some high quality testing so I value his opinion too.
John145 said:
If you manage the pressures the PSS will dick all over the PS4 (and 4S) lap after lap. Depends how hard you push too.
I don’t believe there’s any evidence anywhere to support that view and indeed much evidence to support that the MP4S is a better tyre in every way than the MPSS.Just to chime in, if you have PSS on the front still, you will get a slightly odd 'twitch' sensation especially when accelerating and cornering.
In my experience this happens when you have different sidewall stiffnesses front and rear. I have had PSS on the Monaro almost exclusively, I once tried some Avon ZZ3s on the back and got exactly what I imagine you're subscribing. I sold them within a few hundred miles to a fellow Monaro owner who had them all round and he was perfectly happy.
I recently tried swapping my rear PSS for a pair of otherwise identical PS4Ss, and have the familiar (although nowhere near as bad) sensation that I had with the Avons.
Actual grip levels are not the issue, for me personally it is once you're above about 60mph and certain direction changes especially with weight transfer cause a sort of 'flop' sensation at the rear that is really quite unpleasant in the wrong situation. I opted to just drive with it in mind and obliterate the tyres quickly as a solution, so they lasted 2,000 miles
For reference, they leave fantastic 11s, they lay thick black lines immediately, whereas the PSS do require some wheel speed / heat before really drawing anything on the road.
There are one or two other threads on PH about it, someone noticed it in their Astra and even got a sensible response from Dunlop about having different sidewalls front and rear. I tried contacting Michelin for a bit more understanding but got a fairly generic response.
In my experience this happens when you have different sidewall stiffnesses front and rear. I have had PSS on the Monaro almost exclusively, I once tried some Avon ZZ3s on the back and got exactly what I imagine you're subscribing. I sold them within a few hundred miles to a fellow Monaro owner who had them all round and he was perfectly happy.
I recently tried swapping my rear PSS for a pair of otherwise identical PS4Ss, and have the familiar (although nowhere near as bad) sensation that I had with the Avons.
Actual grip levels are not the issue, for me personally it is once you're above about 60mph and certain direction changes especially with weight transfer cause a sort of 'flop' sensation at the rear that is really quite unpleasant in the wrong situation. I opted to just drive with it in mind and obliterate the tyres quickly as a solution, so they lasted 2,000 miles
For reference, they leave fantastic 11s, they lay thick black lines immediately, whereas the PSS do require some wheel speed / heat before really drawing anything on the road.
There are one or two other threads on PH about it, someone noticed it in their Astra and even got a sensible response from Dunlop about having different sidewalls front and rear. I tried contacting Michelin for a bit more understanding but got a fairly generic response.
SturdyHSV said:
Just to chime in, if you have PSS on the front still, you will get a slightly odd 'twitch' sensation especially when accelerating and cornering.
In my experience this happens when you have different sidewall stiffnesses front and rear. I have had PSS on the Monaro almost exclusively, I once tried some Avon ZZ3s on the back and got exactly what I imagine you're subscribing. I sold them within a few hundred miles to a fellow Monaro owner who had them all round and he was perfectly happy.
I recently tried swapping my rear PSS for a pair of otherwise identical PS4Ss, and have the familiar (although nowhere near as bad) sensation that I had with the Avons.
Actual grip levels are not the issue, for me personally it is once you're above about 60mph and certain direction changes especially with weight transfer cause a sort of 'flop' sensation at the rear that is really quite unpleasant in the wrong situation. I opted to just drive with it in mind and obliterate the tyres quickly as a solution, so they lasted 2,000 miles
For reference, they leave fantastic 11s, they lay thick black lines immediately, whereas the PSS do require some wheel speed / heat before really drawing anything on the road.
There are one or two other threads on PH about it, someone noticed it in their Astra and even got a sensible response from Dunlop about having different sidewalls front and rear. I tried contacting Michelin for a bit more understanding but got a fairly generic response.
That's good to know, hopefully fitting some PS4's up front too will sort it out! In my experience this happens when you have different sidewall stiffnesses front and rear. I have had PSS on the Monaro almost exclusively, I once tried some Avon ZZ3s on the back and got exactly what I imagine you're subscribing. I sold them within a few hundred miles to a fellow Monaro owner who had them all round and he was perfectly happy.
I recently tried swapping my rear PSS for a pair of otherwise identical PS4Ss, and have the familiar (although nowhere near as bad) sensation that I had with the Avons.
Actual grip levels are not the issue, for me personally it is once you're above about 60mph and certain direction changes especially with weight transfer cause a sort of 'flop' sensation at the rear that is really quite unpleasant in the wrong situation. I opted to just drive with it in mind and obliterate the tyres quickly as a solution, so they lasted 2,000 miles
For reference, they leave fantastic 11s, they lay thick black lines immediately, whereas the PSS do require some wheel speed / heat before really drawing anything on the road.
There are one or two other threads on PH about it, someone noticed it in their Astra and even got a sensible response from Dunlop about having different sidewalls front and rear. I tried contacting Michelin for a bit more understanding but got a fairly generic response.
I have the original Bridgestone run flats in the front and needed new rears so went for MPS4S non run flat.
There is a lot of scaremongering about mixing this tyres. I have not crashed or died yet! First few miles the car was twitchy a bit but once the tires settled feel really great with lots of grip. The road compliance is also better and can’t wait to replace the drivers with the same but the Bridgestone are refusing to wear!! And their grip is fine for the road. I can recommend the MPS4S very good. Ironically I would also recommend the Bridgestone Potenzas as with 40k miles still have quite a bit life left!! Which is odd but can’t make myself waste good rubber and getting new tires. Tire pressures are checked/adjusted regularly but all in all very impressed.
There is a lot of scaremongering about mixing this tyres. I have not crashed or died yet! First few miles the car was twitchy a bit but once the tires settled feel really great with lots of grip. The road compliance is also better and can’t wait to replace the drivers with the same but the Bridgestone are refusing to wear!! And their grip is fine for the road. I can recommend the MPS4S very good. Ironically I would also recommend the Bridgestone Potenzas as with 40k miles still have quite a bit life left!! Which is odd but can’t make myself waste good rubber and getting new tires. Tire pressures are checked/adjusted regularly but all in all very impressed.
MrBarry123 said:
John145 said:
If you manage the pressures the PSS will dick all over the PS4 (and 4S) lap after lap. Depends how hard you push too.
I don’t believe there’s any evidence anywhere to support that view and indeed much evidence to support that the MP4S is a better tyre in every way than the MPSS.I've been really impressed with the PS4s on my 235i - they are loads better in wet than my Super Sports were, at the expense of a few 10ths of a second around a dry race track - not something I would ever notice on the road.
It could just be bad timing as my car has had a few unexpected wiggles over the last few days - I just put that down to dropping temperatures and wet leaves.
It could just be bad timing as my car has had a few unexpected wiggles over the last few days - I just put that down to dropping temperatures and wet leaves.
S9JTO said:
Interesting - Could be down to the imbalance of having MPSS up front still, I had my reservations about this but after other owners saying they've done the same with no real side effects I went ahead. May need to buy some PS4's for the front axle then 
What PSI are you running front and rear?
I'm running 32PSI/35PSI...
Sorry, didn't see this post.What PSI are you running front and rear?
I'm running 32PSI/35PSI...
I run 34-36psi all round as cold as I can't be bothered to set the machine differently for the road. Usually this goes to 36-38 when warm.
Wear is good and even and handling is fine.
I noticed around 31-32 psi it would feel a little bit wallowey.
Upping this did help.
On track I obviously run significantly lower cold pressures and aim for around 35 hot** but again as I'm in any racing leagues I'm not that bothered.
John145 said:
If you manage the pressures the PSS will dick all over the PS4 (and 4S) lap after lap. Depends how hard you push too.
Maybe a second on a 2.5 mile circuit..... but on a track day doesn't matter really..... hardly dicking on when you're not racing :-)My car on PS4 was a bit slower than my mates fully stripped AWD 500hp Golf around Oulton Park on Supersports, and he is also a very good driver but we do not hang about. Over 5-6 fast laps he maybe pulled out a 5 second lead.
Tyre temps approx 75c (that is inside the tyre rather than surface temps)
Pressure approx 37psi at this temperature (was around 28 cold).
Edited by xjay1337 on Thursday 15th November 11:07
Leon R said:
MrBarry123 said:
John145 said:
If you manage the pressures the PSS will dick all over the PS4 (and 4S) lap after lap. Depends how hard you push too.
I don’t believe there’s any evidence anywhere to support that view and indeed much evidence to support that the MP4S is a better tyre in every way than the MPSS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65rXOlS2f8
Personally I found the PS4S 'seemed' to be more tail happy than the PSS, certianly in the past the many many times I've put new PSS on the rear of the Monaro I've always been a bit sad as suddenly it has lots of grip after the hooliganism of the worn out ones, whereas when I put new PS4Ss on the rear to try out, it seemed enjoyably tail happy straight away.
I have been deliberately trying to obliterate the tyres though so it's possible I've been slightly more abusive than usual, I wouldn't want to suggest for a moment that my experience is particularly valid compared to what Michelin themselves say about their own tyres
The cheval's bouche at Michelin in France says that MPSS is quicker round a track, but that MPS4S is an excellent and longer-lasting alternative on road. As already stated, once stocks of MPSS are gone, that's it: you will need to try something else anyway.
I'm just out to try the set of MPS4S I had fitted onto my Lotus earlier this week. If I end up in a ditch, I will be sure to post on here.
I'm just out to try the set of MPS4S I had fitted onto my Lotus earlier this week. If I end up in a ditch, I will be sure to post on here.
S9JTO said:
RobM77 said:
Sounds like an imbalance caused by different tyres front and rear to me. Accelerating in a straight line obviously only really leans on the rears, but as soon as you're cornering you're using both.
Very possible - Hoping to rule that out though so I don't have to fork out another £200+ so soon ... But if that's the cause then they'll be on order ASAP.May be worth noting that the front tyres' sidewalls are shagged despite having 4-5mm tread left due to a combination of shoddy alignment and incorrect tyre pressures from the previous owner/BMW I think - So, after re-aligning they'll be using a slightly different contact patch? (I don't know much about alignment or tyres in general, just a thought...)
RobM77 said:
I've experimented a bit over the years and had some alarming experiences as well as just not very satisfying experiences. For the last 15 years I've stuck to always replacing all four at once and, if possible on the car, swapping front and rear to even out the wear. The way I see it is if I've spent all that money and/or trouble finding or creating the right car for me, I don't want to dilute or ruin that experience with mis-matched tyres.
Me too, although with much less experience (~3 years) however I deviated from my norm this time and don't think I'll be doing it again in a hurry!telecat said:
I have the 18" wheels and the Supersports fitted to a M240i and need to replace the rears soon. I also run 2.2 bar in all the tyres. I can't see the Pilot 4S available yet in 18" so it looks like I am stuck with the Supersports??
Looks that way, unless you wanna try out PS4's like me - I'll be able to give some better feedback once I have the fronts fitted too as I'll be doing a ~500 mile drive the weekend after mr_fibuli said:
I've been really impressed with the PS4s on my 235i - they are loads better in wet than my Super Sports were, at the expense of a few 10ths of a second around a dry race track - not something I would ever notice on the road.
It could just be bad timing as my car has had a few unexpected wiggles over the last few days - I just put that down to dropping temperatures and wet leaves.
Good to know, as mentioned previously, an overwhelming amount of "M-lite" owners have raved about them so I don't doubt it!It could just be bad timing as my car has had a few unexpected wiggles over the last few days - I just put that down to dropping temperatures and wet leaves.
Hopefully my uncertainty will be quashed once the fronts are fitted also.
Watching this with interest.
My Super Sports are coming up for replacement on my M140i (fronts have gone on the outer edges, and rears are down to 2.5mm) and I'd heard loads of good stuff about the Pilot Sport 4, even though it isn't a direct replacement for the Super Sport. The Pilot Sport 4s isn't yet available in 18" fitments, so it's a straight Super Sport vs Pilot Sport 4 choice, for me.
The car will never see a track, so I don't care about any advantage the SuperSports offer in this regard. For me, it's purely fast road use in all weathers. I find the SuperSports brilliant, wet or dry, in warmer temperatures, but they seem to go off noticeably once the temperature dips into single figures. I would be happy to sacrifice a little dry grip (there's loads anyway) for more consistent performance when it gets colder.
Going to bite the bullet in the next few weeks, so I would be keen to know the op's thoughts with a matching set of 4.
My Super Sports are coming up for replacement on my M140i (fronts have gone on the outer edges, and rears are down to 2.5mm) and I'd heard loads of good stuff about the Pilot Sport 4, even though it isn't a direct replacement for the Super Sport. The Pilot Sport 4s isn't yet available in 18" fitments, so it's a straight Super Sport vs Pilot Sport 4 choice, for me.
The car will never see a track, so I don't care about any advantage the SuperSports offer in this regard. For me, it's purely fast road use in all weathers. I find the SuperSports brilliant, wet or dry, in warmer temperatures, but they seem to go off noticeably once the temperature dips into single figures. I would be happy to sacrifice a little dry grip (there's loads anyway) for more consistent performance when it gets colder.
Going to bite the bullet in the next few weeks, so I would be keen to know the op's thoughts with a matching set of 4.
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