RE: First Aston Martin SUV confirmed as 'DBX'
Discussion
The Vambo said:
GhellopeSir said:
I know it's just journalism and I shouldn't take it so literally, but I cannot stand the personalisation of company headquarters that seems to have crept in over the last couple of years.
Maranello here, Affalterbach there, and Gaydon seemingly everywhere.
I've been a PH reader for as long as I can remember but don't really go on the forums. It feels petty to comment about something as trivial as this, but it has actually become off-putting to the point where I end up more focused on the running tally of place names than the article itself.
Surely I'm not the only one?
What's your take on 4 exhaust pipes on a Golf?Maranello here, Affalterbach there, and Gaydon seemingly everywhere.
I've been a PH reader for as long as I can remember but don't really go on the forums. It feels petty to comment about something as trivial as this, but it has actually become off-putting to the point where I end up more focused on the running tally of place names than the article itself.
Surely I'm not the only one?
Jader1973 said:
ukaskew said:
Sport220 said:
FFS, not a single high volume sports car manufacturer having the guts not to build these atrocities!
They're not charities and they wouldn't be making them if they were not cash cows.Blame the people that want them (which, it seems, is almost everyone), not the manufacturers for building them.
Mass market manufacturers like VW, Ford etc are understandable.
Imagine James Bond leading his latest lady friend out to one of these, “Why Mister Bond, I thought you were a suave secret agent, not a married father of 2 with a Labrador.”
Sebastian Tombs said:
E65Ross said:
So are you saying that Aston shouldn't make them because they'd remain profitable even if they didn't? Perhaps BMW should stop making the 3 series?
Looking at the state of the new 3 series, I think perhaps they probably should.
Hatson said:
Wolfsburg got carried away?
Just checking, I'm sure the list of hyper-original, continually regurgitated group think old man complaints goes:The A-Class infotainment screen looks like an Ipad glued to the dash. Am I the first to notice?
One exhaust per cylinder, it's outrageous. Lease cars etc etc...
I condemn a specific PH journalists style of writing, True, I work on the toaster technical helpline in Currys but my opinion is valid.
Gayden, Hethel, Woking. I know exactly who they mean but I'm furious.
The Vambo said:
Hatson said:
Wolfsburg got carried away?
Just checking, I'm sure the list of hyper-original, continually regurgitated group think old man complaints goes:The A-Class infotainment screen looks like an Ipad glued to the dash. Am I the first to notice?
One exhaust per cylinder, it's outrageous. Lease cars etc etc...
I condemn a specific PH journalists style of writing, True, I work on the toaster technical helpline in Currys but my opinion is valid.
Gayden, Hethel, Woking. I know exactly who they mean but I'm furious.
HighwayStar said:
If it's a big success and brings in plenty of profits to finance more sexy stuff* would you still feel they shouldn't be doing it? Don't forget Aston don't have a mothership feeding them wads if R&D cash. Merc have 5% and supply engines and tech.
The V8 Vantage was originally going to be mid-engined. I think it was Dr Bez who vetoed it, because Aston had no reputation for that type of car, and I think he was right at that time. I think it's a better time for them now. Beating Ferrari at this though, that's possibly the hardest possible challenge in the business.- Aston's mid engined 488 competitor... should they not try to crack that segment too?
I buy the argument that it brings in the profits, but I wonder if it is sustainable as a long term plan. It's tricky, because you can't just chase profit for profit's sake or we'd have Aston Martin 4 cylinder diesel mid-size saloons and small hatchbacks. Diversification of your product portfolio is good if it reinforces your brand values, but you can't stretch it too far before doing damage. (Cygnet anyone?)
If we look at Porsche as an example, they have been successful at marketing Porsche SUVs because of the reputation they built with the sports cars and racing heritage. However, is that a one way street? Do the Porsche SUVs also sell Porsche sports cars? Do the SUVs reinforce the brand or dilute it and in so doing devalue it? I suspect it's the latter: I can't be the only one who thinks that Porsche has become a bit more 'ordinary' these days. I'd hate that to happen to Aston Martin.
That said, if the DBX is a carbon-fibre and aluminium rocketship rather than a lardy huge thing it might be great and add a whole new chapter to the story. Here's hoping.
Motormatt said:
Rightly so. I’m pleased to see there’s no budget diesel or 6cyl in the range. Should keep the riff raff out with proper engines that will take commitment to buy and run.
Funny that when the Urus used an in-house V8 it was slammed for not having a bespoke V12....but Aston use a bought in V8 and its a 'proper engine'?Regardless, bring it on. It'll be a fabulous car, double their sales and secure the business whilst giving them the resource to make crazy £1m hyper-cars, fire breathing sports cars and and transcontinental GTs.
This or the Urus? Tough call without seeing/driving the DBX, but if it drives half as well as the Urus, it'll be a stormer.
Love that these (and the forthcoming Ferrari no doubt) are offering something very different to the Bentley/Rolls Royce.
HighwayStar said:
Debaser said:
Sebastian Tombs said:
Where have I seen this before?
Oh yes...
Those aren't even similar!Oh yes...
It never ceases to amaze me when PHers say two totally different cars look the same.
(*Arnold & Danny
)
Sebastian Tombs said:
HighwayStar said:
If it's a big success and brings in plenty of profits to finance more sexy stuff* would you still feel they shouldn't be doing it? Don't forget Aston don't have a mothership feeding them wads if R&D cash. Merc have 5% and supply engines and tech.
The V8 Vantage was originally going to be mid-engined. I think it was Dr Bez who vetoed it, because Aston had no reputation for that type of car, and I think he was right at that time. I think it's a better time for them now. Beating Ferrari at this though, that's possibly the hardest possible challenge in the business.- Aston's mid engined 488 competitor... should they not try to crack that segment too?
I buy the argument that it brings in the profits, but I wonder if it is sustainable as a long term plan. It's tricky, because you can't just chase profit for profit's sake or we'd have Aston Martin 4 cylinder diesel mid-size saloons and small hatchbacks. Diversification of your product portfolio is good if it reinforces your brand values, but you can't stretch it too far before doing damage. (Cygnet anyone?)
If we look at Porsche as an example, they have been successful at marketing Porsche SUVs because of the reputation they built with the sports cars and racing heritage. However, is that a one way street? Do the Porsche SUVs also sell Porsche sports cars? Do the SUVs reinforce the brand or dilute it and in so doing devalue it? I suspect it's the latter: I can't be the only one who thinks that Porsche has become a bit more 'ordinary' these days. I'd hate that to happen to Aston Martin.
That said, if the DBX is a carbon-fibre and aluminium rocketship rather than a lardy huge thing it might be great and add a whole new chapter to the story. Here's hoping.
Porsche are literally the blueprint, business case 101 for re SUV's. They sell way more of them that everything else they make and they bring in fat profits for them to produce the good stuff, GT models. The 918. I'd say what's really diluting the brand is the flats virtually are all turbos. The NA is almost dead.
Greedy corporations, profits are a dirty word etc. but if folk want Astons take on a SUV and it makes much money why shouldn't they take a piece of that pie? They make some nice front engine V8s, give us a mid engined job... why worry about the SUV's?
I have a Cayman, I couldn't care less that they also build the Macan and Cayenne. As long as I can get what I want I'm really not fussed because they are still in the game.
Sebastian Tombs said:
The V8 Vantage was originally going to be mid-engined. I think it was Dr Bez who vetoed it, because Aston had no reputation for that type of car, and I think he was right at that time. I think it's a better time for them now. Beating Ferrari at this though, that's possibly the hardest possible challenge in the business.
I buy the argument that it brings in the profits, but I wonder if it is sustainable as a long term plan. It's tricky, because you can't just chase profit for profit's sake or we'd have Aston Martin 4 cylinder diesel mid-size saloons and small hatchbacks. Diversification of your product portfolio is good if it reinforces your brand values, but you can't stretch it too far before doing damage. (Cygnet anyone?)
If we look at Porsche as an example, they have been successful at marketing Porsche SUVs because of the reputation they built with the sports cars and racing heritage. However, is that a one way street? Do the Porsche SUVs also sell Porsche sports cars? Do the SUVs reinforce the brand or dilute it and in so doing devalue it? I suspect it's the latter: I can't be the only one who thinks that Porsche has become a bit more 'ordinary' these days. I'd hate that to happen to Aston Martin.
That said, if the DBX is a carbon-fibre and aluminium rocketship rather than a lardy huge thing it might be great and add a whole new chapter to the story. Here's hoping.
Yes - the Porsche SUVs do sell the sports cars. I know of three examples.I buy the argument that it brings in the profits, but I wonder if it is sustainable as a long term plan. It's tricky, because you can't just chase profit for profit's sake or we'd have Aston Martin 4 cylinder diesel mid-size saloons and small hatchbacks. Diversification of your product portfolio is good if it reinforces your brand values, but you can't stretch it too far before doing damage. (Cygnet anyone?)
If we look at Porsche as an example, they have been successful at marketing Porsche SUVs because of the reputation they built with the sports cars and racing heritage. However, is that a one way street? Do the Porsche SUVs also sell Porsche sports cars? Do the SUVs reinforce the brand or dilute it and in so doing devalue it? I suspect it's the latter: I can't be the only one who thinks that Porsche has become a bit more 'ordinary' these days. I'd hate that to happen to Aston Martin.
That said, if the DBX is a carbon-fibre and aluminium rocketship rather than a lardy huge thing it might be great and add a whole new chapter to the story. Here's hoping.
Two Cayenne owners and a Panamera. None had owned a Porsche before, all saw them as not relevant and/or unobtainable.
All three, being exposed to the brand, and the dealership, have bought 'proper' Porsches. The Panamera driver has got a 718 'for his wife' after she loved it in the OPC. One of the Cayenne drivers has got into a 911 Targa as a second car, and the other Cayenne driver when he came to replace, stuck his wife in a Touraeg and he got a 911.
There is also a third that had an R10. Went into the OPC to look to swap his wife's F-Pace for a Macan, but instead saw a 2yr old 991 S with a great spec, and drove away in that.
Ares said:
Motormatt said:
Rightly so. I’m pleased to see there’s no budget diesel or 6cyl in the range. Should keep the riff raff out with proper engines that will take commitment to buy and run.
Funny that when the Urus used an in-house V8 it was slammed for not having a bespoke V12....but Aston use a bought in V8 and its a 'proper engine'? Kierkegaard said:
Right, okay, I've said this umpteen times on similar threads so there's a high chance you've read this speech before, but I've never had a solid answer so I'm bringing it up again for someone to genuinely answer me.
Why do Aston - or Ferrari/Lambo/Maserati/Bentley/Rolls etc need to make an SUV?
Well, we're 7 pages in and those who have asked this question have been shouted at by people replying saying "THEY NEED TO MAKE MONEY". Fine, but can you answer me why these companies didn't make an estate car 10 years ago? Come on, where is my Aston Martin estate or even a Ferrari saloon 20 years ago?
What is your definition of a saloon? The Ferrari 456 (1992 to 2003) can seat 4 adults in comfort and has a boot. Does a saloon need 4 doors?Why do Aston - or Ferrari/Lambo/Maserati/Bentley/Rolls etc need to make an SUV?
Well, we're 7 pages in and those who have asked this question have been shouted at by people replying saying "THEY NEED TO MAKE MONEY". Fine, but can you answer me why these companies didn't make an estate car 10 years ago? Come on, where is my Aston Martin estate or even a Ferrari saloon 20 years ago?
I think its great that Aston is making the DBX if it ensures its continued survival.
However, (and I realize this is a bit tin-foil-ey and stupidly slippery slope), whats to stop Aston or Porsche from stopping selling sports cars altogether or just making hypercars like the Vulcan and 918 as haloes, and then only making diesel soft-roaders because they sell tons of them?
As unlikely as it seems, certainly mainstream sports cars have gotten less responsive and more anodyne in the last decade - there's no manuals anymore in the Aston range, and all of Porsche's mainstream 2-door cars are forced induction. I think even before the Macan came out, Porsche was selling far more Cayennes and Panameras than 911s and Coxsters, so its certainly possible that as sports car sales continue to slow, Porsche will gradually start focussing more on their SUVs
I think the above forms part of the reason the PH faithful (antediluvians) post so much hate every time a sports car manufacturer releases an SUV.
That said, will this happen in the next 10 years? Likely not. But in 25 years? Certainly possible
However, (and I realize this is a bit tin-foil-ey and stupidly slippery slope), whats to stop Aston or Porsche from stopping selling sports cars altogether or just making hypercars like the Vulcan and 918 as haloes, and then only making diesel soft-roaders because they sell tons of them?
As unlikely as it seems, certainly mainstream sports cars have gotten less responsive and more anodyne in the last decade - there's no manuals anymore in the Aston range, and all of Porsche's mainstream 2-door cars are forced induction. I think even before the Macan came out, Porsche was selling far more Cayennes and Panameras than 911s and Coxsters, so its certainly possible that as sports car sales continue to slow, Porsche will gradually start focussing more on their SUVs
I think the above forms part of the reason the PH faithful (antediluvians) post so much hate every time a sports car manufacturer releases an SUV.
That said, will this happen in the next 10 years? Likely not. But in 25 years? Certainly possible
I wonder if there are enough people in the market for this type of car.
You’ve got the Bentayga, Urus, Cullinan and new Ferrari coming on stream.
I’d also say the RR Vogue, Q8, X8, Cayenne even the Levante will be a consideration..
The high end 4x4 sector is getting very crowded and I’m not convinced all will succeed.
I think many will simply be purchasing instead of a saloon or sports car not as well as.
This May be a case of too late to the party.
I’d love one!
You’ve got the Bentayga, Urus, Cullinan and new Ferrari coming on stream.
I’d also say the RR Vogue, Q8, X8, Cayenne even the Levante will be a consideration..
The high end 4x4 sector is getting very crowded and I’m not convinced all will succeed.
I think many will simply be purchasing instead of a saloon or sports car not as well as.
This May be a case of too late to the party.
I’d love one!
Thankyou4calling said:
I wonder if there are enough people in the market for this type of car.
You’ve got the Bentayga, Urus, Cullinan and new Ferrari coming on stream.
I’d also say the RR Vogue, Q8, X8, Cayenne even the Levante will be a consideration..
The high end 4x4 sector is getting very crowded and I’m not convinced all will succeed.
I think many will simply be purchasing instead of a saloon or sports car not as well as.
This May be a case of too late to the party.
I’d love one!
Globally there’s no shortage of customers for these things. You’ve got the Bentayga, Urus, Cullinan and new Ferrari coming on stream.
I’d also say the RR Vogue, Q8, X8, Cayenne even the Levante will be a consideration..
The high end 4x4 sector is getting very crowded and I’m not convinced all will succeed.
I think many will simply be purchasing instead of a saloon or sports car not as well as.
This May be a case of too late to the party.
I’d love one!
flatso said:
IforB said:
Excellent post and nails it right on the head.
SUV's are popular because they are useful. They might be slightly dynamically compromised, but most people couldn't give a hoot about that and frankly, normal driving rarely takes you to the edge of the performance envelope anyway.
Having both a low, small stiffly suspended car with 300+bhp on tap, then I love that when I'm in the mood for driving like an idiot, but during the winter or when I actually want to do stuff like throw children in the back or bikes or tow boats, go shooting etc then the trusty old 4wd, up on stilts thing with fat tyres and epic ride comfort comes out. It might be dynamically awful, but god I love driving it. Comfy, wafty, quiet with a ride that mean your fillings are never troubled.
As a useful family car, it kicks the small fast thing squarely in the pods.
Useful and practical? Seriously? In case you have not noticed, parking spaces are not getting any bigger. And as the exterior size of these cars has increased somehow the interior space has magically vanished, it is downright embarrasing how little space a lot of these models offer. Comfort? Making up for the raised centre of gravity and weight gains, most SUV’s need to adopt a hard suspension. The only SUV that can somehow claim to be comfortable is the Merc GL and maybe the RR.SUV's are popular because they are useful. They might be slightly dynamically compromised, but most people couldn't give a hoot about that and frankly, normal driving rarely takes you to the edge of the performance envelope anyway.
Having both a low, small stiffly suspended car with 300+bhp on tap, then I love that when I'm in the mood for driving like an idiot, but during the winter or when I actually want to do stuff like throw children in the back or bikes or tow boats, go shooting etc then the trusty old 4wd, up on stilts thing with fat tyres and epic ride comfort comes out. It might be dynamically awful, but god I love driving it. Comfy, wafty, quiet with a ride that mean your fillings are never troubled.
As a useful family car, it kicks the small fast thing squarely in the pods.
If people used the practical & comfortable argument we would be flooded by minivans and other such boxy models.
People buy these as a fashion statement, and the higher driving position (which is soon to be negated when all vehicles are so high). They wnt to feel safe and look active, whilst drudging along the motorway towards the plantation worried not to be blitzed by the speed camera for enjoying the superfluous 300 hp for maximum 4 seconds when a gap in traffic opens up.
If I were a car company I would look into making cars and especially the interiors more joyful and fun. Engines are pretty much the same across the board (2 litre) , designs are very interchangeable...I would look into cars that make the daily grind a bit more humourous, comfortable (soft suspensions, armchair soft seats, double glaze windows) .a sort of escapist type lounge atmosphere.
If these brands are getting into the fashion business then they should go all in, not this wannabe attempt of SUV’s drifting on the mud. Interior colours, materials, shapes, lines, a lot of ideas to be had from the couture world.
My family car is an XC70 which is not an SUV, but is an estate car on stilts with big fat tyres and seats out of a Gentleman's club smoking lounge. It is dynamically compromised but I couldn't care less.
In terms of size, all modern cars are colossal compared to their forebears.
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