RE: Porsche 911 GT3 RS vs Lotus Exige Sport 410
Discussion
lotuslover69 said:
Cold said:
I think that's the first time I've ever read anything derogatory about the pedal layout of an Elise/Exige.
quite, the pedal box in the elise won design awards. Perhaps they did the comparison wearing boots?Nice article, the Porsche is highly desireable, it is quite a wide car though - I think that a 997 is the better sized 911 for UK roads. I am impressed with the low weight of 1,400 ish kilos.
It really is a pity that many of these Porsche’s will be bought as an investment or for bragging points- Finances aside, it makes no sense whatsoever and it is also a very dull way to own such a fine sports car.......
Tin Hat said:
Nice article, the Porsche is highly desireable, it is quite a wide car though - I think that a 997 is the better sized 911 for UK roads. I am impressed with the low weight of 1,400 ish kilos.
I wouldn’t say the current car is particularly wide. It’s csrtainly not a problem on anything that would be deiveable at any pace. The 997 is also a very different car to drive. Some people really don’t like the 991 as it’s such a ‘normal’ car to drive and has lost a lot of its rear engined feel. Personally I think it’s a better car for it! Tin Hat said:
It really is a pity that many of these Porsche’s will be bought as an investment or for bragging points- Finances aside, it makes no sense whatsoever and it is also a very dull way to own such a fine sports car.......
As a few people have said on the thread already (including me) this really isn’t true. You see more GT3s and GT3 RSs at track days than pretty much anything this side is an E46 M3. I’m lucky enough to know a few people who have 991.1 RSs and all of them have driven them on track quite a bit. One of them rather crazily owns it as a track car and drives it really hard. They cope so well on track it’s incredible.The 991.2 GT3RS is only 41mm wider mirror to mirror than the 997.
Many people consider the 991 GT3 to be a large car. Fact is it has not grown much either dimensionally or weight wise compared to many cars.
Which is why the 911 really is still one of the best and most chuckable and driver involving sports cars.
Many people consider the 991 GT3 to be a large car. Fact is it has not grown much either dimensionally or weight wise compared to many cars.
Which is why the 911 really is still one of the best and most chuckable and driver involving sports cars.
I know you love your GT3 as much as the next guy av but I think you’re going a fraction overboard there old boy. The 991 is not really a chuckable sports car in a traditional sense. And it’s still a pretty hefty thing. I know that they’re good but you’re not “chucking” a 991 into a greasy corner at speed just for fun any time soon really are you? They’re a fabulous car but they still weigh the same as three Caterham 7’s and they’re still four and a half meters long!
Julian Thompson said:
I know you love your GT3 as much as the next guy av but I think you’re going a fraction overboard there old boy. The 991 is not really a chuckable sports car in a traditional sense. And it’s still a pretty hefty thing. I know that they’re good but you’re not “chucking” a 991 into a greasy corner at speed just for fun any time soon really are you? They’re a fabulous car but they still weigh the same as three Caterham 7’s and they’re still four and a half meters long!
Fair point J and strangely enough were were just talking about this on the gen 2 GT3 thread. How there are only a couple or so weeks left of serious road driving before sub 7 degrees and slimy salty roads making cup 2s challenging at least.But more to the point in any event I would sooner drive a GT3 than say a bulkier Performante or 458 on the classic UK B road where even the 991 is still chuckable...relatively!
Sadly Lotus have been well and truly left behind. Once upon a time they used to hold all the aces with regard to ride, handling and chassis but those days are now long gone. Since the inception of the V6 Exige and the Evora everyone else has moved on massively whilst they have pretty much stood still. To keep it relevant the Exige needs a completely new chassis, a semi auto box, a pedigree engine and a much more creative, fun handling dynamic. Drove an Alpine the other day and it put the Exige completely into touch even with a humble four pot, made the Lotus seem recalcitrant, laborious and prehistoric.
Edited by jackal on Saturday 17th November 20:39
av185 said:
But more to the point in any event I would sooner drive a GT3 than say a bulkier Performante or 458 on the classic UK B road where even the 991 is still chuckable...relatively!
Absolutely agree. But I’d still like a 458 and/or a performante so that I could have a spin and make sure you’re right 
jackal said:
Sadly Lotus have been well and truly left behind. Once upon a time they used to hold all the aces with regard to ride, handling and chassis but those days are now long gone. Since the inception of the V6 Exige and the Evora everyone else has moved on massively whilst they have pretty much stood still. To keep it relevant the Exige needs a completely new chassis, a semi auto box, a pedigree engine and a much more creative, fun handling dynamic. Drove an Alpine the other day and it put the Exige completely into touch even with a humble four pot, made the Lotus seem recalcitrant, laborious and prehistoric.
I think this for me summarises perfectly a generational difference in opinion. I don’t need the latest, fastest car. I do need something that I need to work at to generate a smile. I recently drove a rally spec Ford Mexico. 4 gears, easy to stall, sounded like you were revving the nuts of it when doing 20mph. I was laughing my head off driving through a village. Edited by jackal on Saturday 17th November 20:39
Give me a car that forces me to work, that forces me to be involved, and even if it’s slowest on any given stretch of road, i’ll be the happiest driver of them all.
jackal said:
Sadly Lotus have been well and truly left behind. Once upon a time they used to hold all the aces with regard to ride, handling and chassis but those days are now long gone. Since the inception of the V6 Exige and the Evora everyone else has moved on massively whilst they have pretty much stood still. To keep it relevant the Exige needs a completely new chassis, a semi auto box, a pedigree engine and a much more creative, fun handling dynamic. Drove an Alpine the other day and it put the Exige completely into touch even with a humble four pot, made the Lotus seem recalcitrant, laborious and prehistoric.
I suspect you're probably right. However one person's recalcitrant, laborious and pre historic is another person's connection, engagement and purity. It's why I no longer have a Cayman PDK but a manual Elise.Edited by jackal on Saturday 17th November 20:39
The market would disagree with me though and Lotus need to move forward.
jackal said:
Sadly Lotus have been well and truly left behind. Once upon a time they used to hold all the aces with regard to ride, handling and chassis but those days are now long gone. Since the inception of the V6 Exige and the Evora everyone else has moved on massively whilst they have pretty much stood still. To keep it relevant the Exige needs a completely new chassis, a semi auto box, a pedigree engine and a much more creative, fun handling dynamic. Drove an Alpine the other day and it put the Exige completely into touch even with a humble four pot, made the Lotus seem recalcitrant, laborious and prehistoric.
I found the Alpine very one dimensional. Yes, it feels (and is) incredibly light. But it lacks the involvement and depth of abilities that the Exige has. Steering alone is on a different planet. And while the Alpine's engine is decent for a turbo four pot (even if it has to rely on fake engine sounds) it isn't a match for the supercharged V6 in terms of grunt and noise. At least not in my book. Edited by jackal on Saturday 17th November 20:39
Vee12V said:
jackal said:
Sadly Lotus have been well and truly left behind. Once upon a time they used to hold all the aces with regard to ride, handling and chassis but those days are now long gone. Since the inception of the V6 Exige and the Evora everyone else has moved on massively whilst they have pretty much stood still. To keep it relevant the Exige needs a completely new chassis, a semi auto box, a pedigree engine and a much more creative, fun handling dynamic. Drove an Alpine the other day and it put the Exige completely into touch even with a humble four pot, made the Lotus seem recalcitrant, laborious and prehistoric.
I found the Alpine very one dimensional. Yes, it feels (and is) incredibly light. But it lacks the involvement and depth of abilities that the Exige has. Steering alone is on a different planet. And while the Alpine's engine is decent for a turbo four pot (even if it has to rely on fake engine sounds) it isn't a match for the supercharged V6 in terms of grunt and noise. At least not in my book. Edited by jackal on Saturday 17th November 20:39
It needs to be better, as opposed to bigger. Well, bit for larger drivers...
As long as they can do a 'poverty-spec' for the purists, it should be OK.
av185 said:
Julian Thompson said:
I know you love your GT3 as much as the next guy av but I think you’re going a fraction overboard there old boy. The 991 is not really a chuckable sports car in a traditional sense. And it’s still a pretty hefty thing. I know that they’re good but you’re not “chucking” a 991 into a greasy corner at speed just for fun any time soon really are you? They’re a fabulous car but they still weigh the same as three Caterham 7’s and they’re still four and a half meters long!
Fair point J and strangely enough were were just talking about this on the gen 2 GT3 thread. How there are only a couple or so weeks left of serious road driving before sub 7 degrees and slimy salty roads making cup 2s challenging at least.But more to the point in any event I would sooner drive a GT3 than say a bulkier Performante or 458 on the classic UK B road where even the 991 is still chuckable...relatively!
Yep great article and I am a huge admirer of both cars.
The Lotus can of course be set up how you want. As has been said, TC can be turned off and for a few quid you can get an LSD.
But yep they are hard work which some may not like.
For my money, I would keep my modded Elise S1 for its feel, agility and bombastic nature. And add a manual GT3.
The Lotus can of course be set up how you want. As has been said, TC can be turned off and for a few quid you can get an LSD.
But yep they are hard work which some may not like.
For my money, I would keep my modded Elise S1 for its feel, agility and bombastic nature. And add a manual GT3.
Great pics and article just one newbie question
Is this correct? Is the lotus that quick?
“Better than the Lotus on road, though? Probably not. There's more for the driver to do at more realistic speeds in the Exige, the click clack of that manual (and being in charge of your own gears) counts for a lot, its smaller size obviously suits the UK and the punch of that supercharger makes it feel no less quick. “
Is this correct? Is the lotus that quick?
“Better than the Lotus on road, though? Probably not. There's more for the driver to do at more realistic speeds in the Exige, the click clack of that manual (and being in charge of your own gears) counts for a lot, its smaller size obviously suits the UK and the punch of that supercharger makes it feel no less quick. “
jackal said:
Sadly Lotus have been well and truly left behind. Once upon a time they used to hold all the aces with regard to ride, handling and chassis but those days are now long gone. Since the inception of the V6 Exige and the Evora everyone else has moved on massively whilst they have pretty much stood still. To keep it relevant the Exige needs a completely new chassis, a semi auto box, a pedigree engine and a much more creative, fun handling dynamic. Drove an Alpine the other day and it put the Exige completely into touch even with a humble four pot, made the Lotus seem recalcitrant, laborious and prehistoric.
You are completely wrong J. Infact the exact opposite is true. The Alpine is dreadful, more like a sporty Megane. If that's the best Renualt can do with their billions, then its laughable. The Exige is visceral, and I can't begin to imagine what it will be like when Geely put development and finance behind it Edited by jackal on Saturday 17th November 20:39
CarterDesk said:
Great pics and article just one newbie question
Is this correct? Is the lotus that quick?
“Better than the Lotus on road, though? Probably not. There's more for the driver to do at more realistic speeds in the Exige, the click clack of that manual (and being in charge of your own gears) counts for a lot, its smaller size obviously suits the UK and the punch of that supercharger makes it feel no less quick. “
It's got a 0-60 under 3.5 secs, so yes, quite quick.Is this correct? Is the lotus that quick?
“Better than the Lotus on road, though? Probably not. There's more for the driver to do at more realistic speeds in the Exige, the click clack of that manual (and being in charge of your own gears) counts for a lot, its smaller size obviously suits the UK and the punch of that supercharger makes it feel no less quick. “
GingerMunky said:
jackal said:
Sadly Lotus have been well and truly left behind. Once upon a time they used to hold all the aces with regard to ride, handling and chassis but those days are now long gone. Since the inception of the V6 Exige and the Evora everyone else has moved on massively whilst they have pretty much stood still. To keep it relevant the Exige needs a completely new chassis, a semi auto box, a pedigree engine and a much more creative, fun handling dynamic. Drove an Alpine the other day and it put the Exige completely into touch even with a humble four pot, made the Lotus seem recalcitrant, laborious and prehistoric.
You are completely wrong J. Infact the exact opposite is true. The Alpine is dreadful, more like a sporty Megane. If that's the best Renualt can do with their billions, then its laughable. The Exige is visceral, and I can't begin to imagine what it will be like when Geely put development and finance behind it Edited by jackal on Saturday 17th November 20:39
Generally, it’s always interesting that the Elise is often lauded as such a bastion of dynamic ability. It’s actually quite compromised and suffers from the fact they didn’t really had a suitable engine to fit in the car, meaning it ended up with a rather high CoG 4 pot from Rover and then Toyota. I’m not totally sure about the V6, but the whole platform was developed on a shoe string, and whilst the cars are certainly very interactive due to a general lack of assistance, they’re not that great if you measure them objectively against the competition.
This isn’t anything against what was done, or against the team that designed them, but it’s funny how the general public often only see a tiny part of the picture. The fact that in the one hand a Elise can be incredible and an A110 can be one dimensional just shows how complex these things are. Fundamentally one person can have two wildly different views about basically the same underlying car, due to the fact it’s influenced by more than just objectivity.
Edited by RacerMike on Sunday 18th November 17:29
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