Fast middle lane hoggers

[M4cruiser]

DJM7691 said:

To me, how you drive when a motorway is not busy, is normally a good indicator of how you drive when it is busy.

Lots saying that at 3am when the motorway is empty, it doesn't matter what lane you drive in. This is true, but good practice should still apply, it should become a natural instinct to want to return to L1 if practical and feasible. This will natrually seep into good motorway discipline at peak times.

Good post, and this applies to all driving, not just motorways. E.g. don't cut a corner when turning right into a side road, because it will become a habit, and one day there will be something coming, and you won't have checked properly.

As for MLMs though, I don't think it really is just habit (i.e. a bad habit), it seems to me more a misunderstanding. Some posts on here seem to say,
" if you are tailgating the car in front then he's a MLM" and "if you leave a good gap in front of you then you're a MLM". These are just not true, but it takes some thought to comprehend this, and many drivers don't think, they just look no further than the back bumper of the car in front.

[silverfoxcc]

theboss said:

I mentioned a substandard surface on L1 earlier. To clarify, I agree I don't think I've ever seen an 'unusuable' L1 surface before. However if I'm getting a move on, traffic is light/non-existent and the surface in L2 is merely smoother and quieter, then I'd use it for that reason alone.

The moment traffic is approaching from behind, I'd be in L1 as I usually am anyway.

To me MLM equates to inconveniencing others. If you aren't inconveniencing anyone in the slightest, and you're aware of your positioning and that of other traffic, being outside L1 doesn't automatically equate to MLM.

What part of the phrase

'Keep to the left hand lane except when overtaking ' often seen on motorway traffic signs do you not understand?

Please explain or explain how you being in the middle lane with no other traffic about does not make you a moron ( middle lane type)

[vonhosen]

silverfoxcc said:

theboss said:

I mentioned a substandard surface on L1 earlier. To clarify, I agree I don't think I've ever seen an 'unusuable' L1 surface before. However if I'm getting a move on, traffic is light/non-existent and the surface in L2 is merely smoother and quieter, then I'd use it for that reason alone.

The moment traffic is approaching from behind, I'd be in L1 as I usually am anyway.

To me MLM equates to inconveniencing others. If you aren't inconveniencing anyone in the slightest, and you're aware of your positioning and that of other traffic, being outside L1 doesn't automatically equate to MLM.

What part of the phrase

'Keep to the left hand lane except when overtaking ' often seen on motorway traffic signs do you not understand?

Please explain or explain how you being in the middle lane with no other traffic about does not make you a moron ( middle lane type)

I think he understands the request, he just doesn't agree with it, which he is of course entitled to do.
Those same signs say 'Stay in lane' at other times & some people don't agree with or comply with that request either.

[Toltec]

silverfoxcc said:

What part of the phrase

'Keep to the left hand lane except when overtaking ' often seen on motorway traffic signs do you not understand?

Please explain or explain how you being in the middle lane with no other traffic about does not make you a moron ( middle lane type)

It is a tree in the forest thing, just like speed limits when there are no cameras or cops to measure them or using all of the road when no one else is.

[Bob-2146]

UK motorway system does not seem to be widely understood. Judging by what I see daily, cars sit in the fast lane with nothing in the middle or left lanes and leave no option but to be undertaken.

I think part of this is a US highway style mentality. But I also think part is down to road captains refusing to move over, as evidenced by some acceleration and gesturing as you undertake.

[vonhosen]

Bob-2146 said:

UK motorway system does not seem to be widely understood. Judging by what I see daily, cars sit in the fast lane with nothing in the middle or left lanes and leave no option but to be undertaken.

I think part of this is a US highway style mentality. But I also think part is down to road captains refusing to move over, as evidenced by some acceleration and gesturing as you undertake.

[Haltamer]

Bob-2146 said:

the fast lane

[Bob-2146]

Lane 3 is the fast lane, or should be. Unfortunately keeping left and moving over when the inside is clear seems to be a unique custom known about by only three people based in the UK.

I actually think they should limit access to lane three by subscription or engine size, enforeced by camera, then we can call it the ‘fast’ lane again.

You can see why so many have trouble. Legalising undertaking makes sense.

[vonhosen]

1) Lane 3 is defined as an overtaking lane (not a fast lane)
2) There is no legislated offence of undertaking, just as there is no legislated offence of lane hogging.

[Bob-2146]

vonhosen said:

1) Lane 3 is defined as an overtaking lane (not a fast lane)
2) There is no legislated offence of undertaking, just as there is no legislated offence of lane hogging.

The Highway Code is pretty clear about when you can pass on the inside though.

“The Highway Code discourages undertaking on motorways with some exceptions (rule 268): "Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake". Undertaking is permitted in congested conditions when frequent lane changing is not recommended.

A relaxation of that guidance would go some way towards solving the usual queues in lane 2 or 3 with nothing on the inside.

[vonhosen]

Bob-2146 said:

vonhosen said:

1) Lane 3 is defined as an overtaking lane (not a fast lane)
2) There is no legislated offence of undertaking, just as there is no legislated offence of lane hogging.

The Highway Code is pretty clear about when you can pass on the inside though.

“The Highway Code discourages undertaking on motorways with some exceptions (rule 268): "Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake". Undertaking is permitted in congested conditions when frequent lane changing is not recommended.

A relaxation of that guidance would go some way towards solving the usual queues in lane 2 or 3 with nothing on the inside.

You said 'legalise', the Highway Code is offering advice not quoting statute.
It's not illegal because there is no specific offence for it.

If you are to be prosecuted for a manoeuvre passing on the left it will be because the circumstances/manner in which it was done amount to a Sec 3 RTA, which isn't the same as the act in & of itself being an offence (which incidently is the same with lane hogging).

[Graveworm]

vonhosen said:

You said 'legalise', the Highway Code is offering advice not quoting statute.
It's not illegal because there is no specific offence for it.

If you are to be prosecuted for a manoeuvre passing on the left it will be because the circumstances/manner in which it was done amount to a Sec 3 RTA, which isn't the same as the act in & of itself being an offence (which incidently is the same with lane hogging).

I am with you Von but in most cases undertaking will meet the test for S3, if they bother to prosecute. It is the top example the CPS cite as prima facie for without due care. Lane hogging is more often inconsiderate so does need evidence that someone was actually inconvenienced, but unless the road was otherwise empty that would not be too hard.

Edited by Graveworm on Sunday 2nd December 00:46

[vonhosen]

Graveworm said:

vonhosen said:

You said 'legalise', the Highway Code is offering advice not quoting statute.
It's not illegal because there is no specific offence for it.

If you are to be prosecuted for a manoeuvre passing on the left it will be because the circumstances/manner in which it was done amount to a Sec 3 RTA, which isn't the same as the act in & of itself being an offence (which incidently is the same with lane hogging).

I am with you Von but in most cases undertaking will meet the test for S3, if they bother to prosecute. It is the top example the CPS cite as prima facie for without due care. Lane hogging is more often inconsiderate so does need evidence that someone was actually inconvenienced, but unless the road was otherwise empty that would not be too hard.

All Section 3's are about whether they bother to prosecute.
I said earlier that we are going through a transitional period & this has resulted in a discrepancy between what is written (Highway Code etc) & what is promoted through traffic management/enforcement policies.

The reality is that lane hogging & undertaking (save in very extreme examples) isn't likely to result in prosecutions.
Speeding is without it being an extreme example. Speeding black/white, Sec 3 grey.
Passing somebody (you in lane 1 doing 69mph, they in lane 2 doing 65mph) isn't likely to see either of you stopped let alone prosecuted. You do the same in lane 1 at 80mph with them again doing 65mph will more likely see you with a NIP & them again nothing. The NIP will be for speeding not Sec 3. Even if you got a NIP for both & they were proceeded with, the CPS would accept a plea bargain & drop the Sec 3 in favour of the speeding in order to avoid a trial.