Fast middle lane hoggers
Discussion
lyonspride said:
Other countries just accept "undertaking" as a thing, MLMs are really prevalent in Australia, but they don't really cause a problem, because unlike in the UK they're not out looking for trouble and don't get their arse in a sling when you pass them.
The reason MLM are bad in the UK is because UK drivers are constantly looking to pick fault with others, to the point where they'll "create" situations which they know will irritate and cause conflict.
Having done a fairly long trip across france, switzerland and italy over the summer the prevelance of the middle lane hog is so obvious when you get back. Some French major roads are two lanes, yet they still flow as people stay much more religiously to the inside. As soon as I drove off the ferry in the evening back to the UK driving down an empty M20 aside from a dotted line of cars pootling along in the middle lane with literally nothing on the inside is an embarrassment to the poor standard of motorway driving here. The reason MLM are bad in the UK is because UK drivers are constantly looking to pick fault with others, to the point where they'll "create" situations which they know will irritate and cause conflict.
PF62 said:
PixelpeepS3 said:
was going to start a thread on this the other day actually.
As i commute from Cambridge to Essex 3 days a week i have now witnessed something even more evil.
two lanes... lane one empty for a good 20 car lengths as there is something slow about a mile up the road, everyone moves into lane two nice and early and then carries on doing 62mph so they overtake at 1mph difference of the slow moving car.
Then they leave really big gaps in front of them
end result - they slow lane 2 into a crawl, which then makes lane 1 faster, so all the slow moving cars start undertaking the ones that want to do the speed limit. then, when they eventually catch up to slower object in lane 1 they just pull out into lane 2, using the large gap Mr 62mph left for them.
This just pushes me back, further and further away from the thing i am going faster than!
i normally can sit still for around 2 miles, then i play leap frog, usually passing 5-10 cars a time. and they all still sit there.... :@@@
You could make the argument that everyone in lane 2 other than Mr 62mph is a middle lane hogger as they haven't moved left as they are not actually overtaking anything... As i commute from Cambridge to Essex 3 days a week i have now witnessed something even more evil.
two lanes... lane one empty for a good 20 car lengths as there is something slow about a mile up the road, everyone moves into lane two nice and early and then carries on doing 62mph so they overtake at 1mph difference of the slow moving car.
Then they leave really big gaps in front of them
end result - they slow lane 2 into a crawl, which then makes lane 1 faster, so all the slow moving cars start undertaking the ones that want to do the speed limit. then, when they eventually catch up to slower object in lane 1 they just pull out into lane 2, using the large gap Mr 62mph left for them.
This just pushes me back, further and further away from the thing i am going faster than!
i normally can sit still for around 2 miles, then i play leap frog, usually passing 5-10 cars a time. and they all still sit there.... :@@@
During my time commuting along that stretch the inside lane was for HGV's, coaches and anyone who wasn't doing crazy speeds.
The outside lane was like a mini autobahn filled with a chain of TDI luxobarges, supercars and white vans all engaging in high speed tailgating.
Trying to overtake slower vehicles and merge into lane 2, I sometimes felt like I was on the set of Fast and Furious.
GTI16V said:
PF62 said:
PixelpeepS3 said:
was going to start a thread on this the other day actually.
As i commute from Cambridge to Essex 3 days a week i have now witnessed something even more evil.
two lanes... lane one empty for a good 20 car lengths as there is something slow about a mile up the road, everyone moves into lane two nice and early and then carries on doing 62mph so they overtake at 1mph difference of the slow moving car.
Then they leave really big gaps in front of them
end result - they slow lane 2 into a crawl, which then makes lane 1 faster, so all the slow moving cars start undertaking the ones that want to do the speed limit. then, when they eventually catch up to slower object in lane 1 they just pull out into lane 2, using the large gap Mr 62mph left for them.
This just pushes me back, further and further away from the thing i am going faster than!
i normally can sit still for around 2 miles, then i play leap frog, usually passing 5-10 cars a time. and they all still sit there.... :@@@
You could make the argument that everyone in lane 2 other than Mr 62mph is a middle lane hogger as they haven't moved left as they are not actually overtaking anything... As i commute from Cambridge to Essex 3 days a week i have now witnessed something even more evil.
two lanes... lane one empty for a good 20 car lengths as there is something slow about a mile up the road, everyone moves into lane two nice and early and then carries on doing 62mph so they overtake at 1mph difference of the slow moving car.
Then they leave really big gaps in front of them
end result - they slow lane 2 into a crawl, which then makes lane 1 faster, so all the slow moving cars start undertaking the ones that want to do the speed limit. then, when they eventually catch up to slower object in lane 1 they just pull out into lane 2, using the large gap Mr 62mph left for them.
This just pushes me back, further and further away from the thing i am going faster than!
i normally can sit still for around 2 miles, then i play leap frog, usually passing 5-10 cars a time. and they all still sit there.... :@@@
During my time commuting along that stretch the inside lane was for HGV's, coaches and anyone who wasn't doing crazy speeds.
The outside lane was like a mini autobahn filled with a chain of TDI luxobarges, supercars and white vans all engaging in high speed tailgating.
Trying to overtake slower vehicles and merge into lane 2, I sometimes felt like I was on the set of Fast and Furious.
lyonspride said:
vonhosen said:
We actually have it pretty good in this country & North West Europe in general (relative to other countries/regions in the world) although there is a lot of time spent complaining about it.
The reason MLM are bad in the UK is because UK drivers are constantly looking to pick fault with others, to the point where they'll "create" situations which they know will irritate and cause conflict.
As I said, we are in a dual carriageway cultural transformation phase.
We are moving from a progress orientated, keep left unless overtaking with a wide spread of speeds, to a use which ever lane is travelling at a speed you like to maintain & stay in that lane with a narrow spread of speeds situation.
GTI16V said:
I'm assuming that's the M11 you're referring to? If so, it's changed a fair bit since I last used it.
During my time commuting along that stretch the inside lane was for HGV's, coaches and anyone who wasn't doing crazy speeds.
The outside lane was like a mini autobahn filled with a chain of TDI luxobarges, supercars and white vans all engaging in high speed tailgating.
Trying to overtake slower vehicles and merge into lane 2, I sometimes felt like I was on the set of Fast and Furious.
When did you use it? I've never commuted on it, but I have used it for longer journeys over the last thirty years and rhd lane has generally been queues behind lorries not really overtaking other lorries and cars that then accelerate to 2mph more than a lorry and will not pull left if another lorry is visible no matter how many minutes/miles it will take them to catch it up. High speed tailgating has never really been obvious as generally you are doing under 60mph.During my time commuting along that stretch the inside lane was for HGV's, coaches and anyone who wasn't doing crazy speeds.
The outside lane was like a mini autobahn filled with a chain of TDI luxobarges, supercars and white vans all engaging in high speed tailgating.
Trying to overtake slower vehicles and merge into lane 2, I sometimes felt like I was on the set of Fast and Furious.
PixelpeepS3 said:
was going to start a thread on this the other day actually.
As i commute from Cambridge to Essex 3 days a week i have now witnessed something even more evil.
two lanes... lane one empty for a good 20 car lengths as there is something slow about a mile up the road, everyone moves into lane two nice and early and then carries on doing 62mph so they overtake at 1mph difference of the slow moving car.
Then they leave really big gaps in front of them
end result - they slow lane 2 into a crawl, which then makes lane 1 faster, so all the slow moving cars start undertaking the ones that want to do the speed limit. then, when they eventually catch up to slower object in lane 1 they just pull out into lane 2, using the large gap Mr 62mph left for them.
This just pushes me back, further and further away from the thing i am going faster than!
i normally can sit still for around 2 miles, then i play leap frog, usually passing 5-10 cars a time. and they all still sit there.... :@@@
If you are doing 62 mph you should have a decent gap in front of you. As i commute from Cambridge to Essex 3 days a week i have now witnessed something even more evil.
two lanes... lane one empty for a good 20 car lengths as there is something slow about a mile up the road, everyone moves into lane two nice and early and then carries on doing 62mph so they overtake at 1mph difference of the slow moving car.
Then they leave really big gaps in front of them
end result - they slow lane 2 into a crawl, which then makes lane 1 faster, so all the slow moving cars start undertaking the ones that want to do the speed limit. then, when they eventually catch up to slower object in lane 1 they just pull out into lane 2, using the large gap Mr 62mph left for them.
This just pushes me back, further and further away from the thing i am going faster than!
i normally can sit still for around 2 miles, then i play leap frog, usually passing 5-10 cars a time. and they all still sit there.... :@@@
The problem is with the above is you are screwed whatever you do. There is a lorry in the left land and a long queue of traffic in the right lane. If you move to the left (as no-one there) the person behind will just close the gap so when you reach the lorry you won't be able to get back into the overtaking lane. Of course, you could speed along in the LH lane and undertake the queue...then force your way in (as you seem to suggest you do). But that is just queue-jumping. Strangely people seem much happier doing that in their cars than in person (e.g. at the post office).
Esceptico said:
Of course, you could speed along in the LH lane and undertake the queue...then force your way in (as you seem to suggest you do). But that is just queue-jumping. Strangely people seem much happier doing that in their cars than in person (e.g. at the post office).
Good point. I presume this is because on the road people interact as much with the car as the person. This is one of the reasons for all this nonsense about BMW drivers or Audi drivers etc; sometimes you even here "a BMW cut me up", with no mention of the driver at all! Off topic, but this leads me to wonder something... I walk quickly, so when I walk past someone on the street, inside their head are they mentally flashing their lights at me, hooting and calling me a w
ker, just for wanting to make progress quicker than them? Or have I just highlighted how ridiculous that behaviour is on the road?Esceptico said:
If you are doing 62 mph you should have a decent gap in front of you.
The problem is with the above is you are screwed whatever you do. There is a lorry in the left land and a long queue of traffic in the right lane. If you move to the left (as no-one there) the person behind will just close the gap so when you reach the lorry you won't be able to get back into the overtaking lane. Of course, you could speed along in the LH lane and undertake the queue...then force your way in (as you seem to suggest you do). But that is just queue-jumping. Strangely people seem much happier doing that in their cars than in person (e.g. at the post office).
What often works, if there is a large gap to the lorry, is to pull left and pace the cars to the right, when they inevitably brake you, carefully continue in your own lane. You can slowly roll off speed to match theirs after passing a few cars, then as they accelerate pace them again, rinse and repeat until you are closing on the lorry. Indicate while alongside, but slightly behind a car to the right, often as not the car behind and to your right will let you in, particularly if you time it with one of the rhd lane acceleration phases as all they need to do to let you in is not accelerate.The problem is with the above is you are screwed whatever you do. There is a lorry in the left land and a long queue of traffic in the right lane. If you move to the left (as no-one there) the person behind will just close the gap so when you reach the lorry you won't be able to get back into the overtaking lane. Of course, you could speed along in the LH lane and undertake the queue...then force your way in (as you seem to suggest you do). But that is just queue-jumping. Strangely people seem much happier doing that in their cars than in person (e.g. at the post office).
I think the trick is that you never appear to be deliberately passing them as it only happens when they are aware that they are having to slow, you are patiently indicating and not trying to dive into a gap. Pulling left after passing the lorry helps to reinforce that you are not trying to gain advantage, quite often if you do not get a few more cars ahead in the next gap they then let you back in again because they now know you will pull left.
there is another aspect, which is the intolerance of the "L3 boys".
of course you should keep left but sometimes when you do the right thing it can be hard to get out of L1 again.
observation and politeness all round would help, not speeding up to block someone in a slower lane.
another question: traffic flowing but busy, L1 is running at 65mph and L2 at 75mph. someone in L2 looks, indicates and pulls out to L3 at 80mph with someone behind doing 90+. No danger at all, car behind is 250m back but closing.
Should 90mph car ease ever so slightly while first car overtakes or does he have the right to be annoyed as he had to lift slightly. and then tailgate....
of course you should keep left but sometimes when you do the right thing it can be hard to get out of L1 again.
observation and politeness all round would help, not speeding up to block someone in a slower lane.
another question: traffic flowing but busy, L1 is running at 65mph and L2 at 75mph. someone in L2 looks, indicates and pulls out to L3 at 80mph with someone behind doing 90+. No danger at all, car behind is 250m back but closing.
Should 90mph car ease ever so slightly while first car overtakes or does he have the right to be annoyed as he had to lift slightly. and then tailgate....
The crux of most peoples arguments seems to be "because it's the rules". If you're not causing delays to anyone then I don't really see the point, I do this all the time. Scrapping the barrel, but I can think of one case where it's preferred to be in the middle lane. Say something was to bolt into the road, if you're in the middle then you can swerve either way to avoid it
CABC said:
another question: traffic flowing but busy, L1 is running at 65mph and L2 at 75mph. someone in L2 looks, indicates and pulls out to L3 at 80mph with someone behind doing 90+. No danger at all, car behind is 250m back but closing.
Should 90mph car ease ever so slightly while first car overtakes or does he have the right to be annoyed as he had to lift slightly. and then tailgate....
Nothing wrong with having to lift off in my opinion, only if you have to brake.Should 90mph car ease ever so slightly while first car overtakes or does he have the right to be annoyed as he had to lift slightly. and then tailgate....
CABC said:
there is another aspect, which is the intolerance of the "L3 boys".
of course you should keep left but sometimes when you do the right thing it can be hard to get out of L1 again.
observation and politeness all round would help, not speeding up to block someone in a slower lane.
another question: traffic flowing but busy, L1 is running at 65mph and L2 at 75mph. someone in L2 looks, indicates and pulls out to L3 at 80mph with someone behind doing 90+. No danger at all, car behind is 250m back but closing.
Should 90mph car ease ever so slightly while first car overtakes or does he have the right to be annoyed as he had to lift slightly. and then tailgate....
Shouldn't be a problem, at a 10mph differential it will take around 40 seconds for the L3 car to close within a 2 second gap of the overtaker, that should give them enough time to complete the pass. of course you should keep left but sometimes when you do the right thing it can be hard to get out of L1 again.
observation and politeness all round would help, not speeding up to block someone in a slower lane.
another question: traffic flowing but busy, L1 is running at 65mph and L2 at 75mph. someone in L2 looks, indicates and pulls out to L3 at 80mph with someone behind doing 90+. No danger at all, car behind is 250m back but closing.
Should 90mph car ease ever so slightly while first car overtakes or does he have the right to be annoyed as he had to lift slightly. and then tailgate....
If you are going well over the speed limit you should not be surprised if you need to slow occasionally for people going only a little over that do not want to get a NIP. Providing they make a decent pass and don't do a last second lurch in front of you I don't see a problem. You should be quite well aware of their closing gap anyway and be expecting them to make an overtake.
When you drive you are making spacio-temporal probability maps for the vehicles and other hazards you can see or predict as possibilities. The trick is to ensure you always have a map for your own vehicle that results in a none intersection of the sets.
Edited by Toltec on Monday 19th November 17:33
MrGTI6 said:
So you'd rather everyone else has to keep switching lanes to get past you as you hog the middle lane? Such a selfish way of driving, and far too common on motorways.
"Weaving" is totally unneccessary. Changing lane is no hardship and should be a smooth and effortless process. Just because you find it challenging doesn't mean you should be hogging the middle lane.
Smooth lane changes and keeping to the left unless overtaking might make your journey 1% more difficult (although it shouldn't), but other road users will really benefit from it.
Not at all. As mentioned in the post, I I'm generally driving too fast to be overtaken. I'll point out - when someone does overtake on third, I never see them heading for L1, they just come back to L2 or stay in L3 of driving fast enough. "Weaving" is totally unneccessary. Changing lane is no hardship and should be a smooth and effortless process. Just because you find it challenging doesn't mean you should be hogging the middle lane.
Smooth lane changes and keeping to the left unless overtaking might make your journey 1% more difficult (although it shouldn't), but other road users will really benefit from it.
My argument, is that if there are plenty of people swapping between L1 and L2 multiple times per minute then surely that presents some risk?
Edited by brucezepplin on Monday 19th November 17:46
MrGTI6 said:
So you'd rather everyone else has to keep switching lanes to get past you as you hog the middle lane? Such a selfish way of driving, and far too common on motorways.
"Weaving" is totally unneccessary. Changing lane is no hardship and should be a smooth and effortless process. Just because you find it challenging doesn't mean you should be hogging the middle lane.
Smooth lane changes and keeping to the left unless overtaking might make your journey 1% more difficult (although it shouldn't), but other road users will really benefit from it.
Not at all. As mentioned in the post, I I'm generally driving too fast to be overtaken. I'll point out - when someone does overtake on third, I never see them heading for L1, they just come back to L2 or stay in L3 of driving fast enough. "Weaving" is totally unneccessary. Changing lane is no hardship and should be a smooth and effortless process. Just because you find it challenging doesn't mean you should be hogging the middle lane.
Smooth lane changes and keeping to the left unless overtaking might make your journey 1% more difficult (although it shouldn't), but other road users will really benefit from it.
My argument, is that if there are plenty of people swapping between L1 and L2 multiple times per minute then surely that presents some risk?
Edited by brucezepplin on Monday 19th November 17:46
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm not trying to get an excuse for doing it, I'm looking for you to justify why I shouldn't, very different. It's like if I fart in an empty room is that a social faux pas? Same here, if I am not causing any delay to anyone, or any other problems, then why should it matter, what's the justification for it?Toltec said:
GTI16V said:
I'm assuming that's the M11 you're referring to? If so, it's changed a fair bit since I last used it.
During my time commuting along that stretch the inside lane was for HGV's, coaches and anyone who wasn't doing crazy speeds.
The outside lane was like a mini autobahn filled with a chain of TDI luxobarges, supercars and white vans all engaging in high speed tailgating.
Trying to overtake slower vehicles and merge into lane 2, I sometimes felt like I was on the set of Fast and Furious.
When did you use it? I've never commuted on it, but I have used it for longer journeys over the last thirty years and rhd lane has generally been queues behind lorries not really overtaking other lorries and cars that then accelerate to 2mph more than a lorry and will not pull left if another lorry is visible no matter how many minutes/miles it will take them to catch it up. High speed tailgating has never really been obvious as generally you are doing under 60mph.During my time commuting along that stretch the inside lane was for HGV's, coaches and anyone who wasn't doing crazy speeds.
The outside lane was like a mini autobahn filled with a chain of TDI luxobarges, supercars and white vans all engaging in high speed tailgating.
Trying to overtake slower vehicles and merge into lane 2, I sometimes felt like I was on the set of Fast and Furious.
It was definitely a feature on some journeys, although I'd also accept the issue with elephant racing.
PixelpeepS3 said:
- if there is a large gap between slower moving objects in lane one, you are in lane two but there is something behind you wanting to get past, return to lane one to allow the object to pass.
What if the guy behind you has got his adaptive cruise control set 1mph faster than yours and will very slowly overtake you if you pull in, thus pinning you when you reach the next obstacle in L1?Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff