RE: Ford Escort RS1600i: Spotted

[Jon_S_Rally]

firebird350 said:

Indeed! This was Ford's 2nd attempt at a FWD works rally car ('83 IIRC) - the first was the Mk 1 Fiesta in '79 which failed to impress anyone as a successor to the Gp4 Escort RS1800. Ari Vatanen and Roger Clark drove the Fiestas on the '79 Monte Carlo Rally where they finished 10th and 13th overall respectively (at least they finished the event) but the omens weren't good.

In '83, Ford then tried with the RS1600i with Malcolm Wilson and Louise Aitken-Walker driving the cars in the British Open Rally Championship with a similar lack of success. I believe it was Stuart Turner who then threw in the towel on works FWD rally Fords (around the same time he cancelled the Gp.B RS1700T and the C100).

I guess timing played a part in a way, as FWD rallying didn't really get into its stride until the '90s and F2 in many ways.

iSore said:

30k is RS Cosworth Sierra money and they were a serious car. The CVH Escort was never much more than a shopping trolley. The brakes were terrible as has been mentioned - I fitted the Ford kit of reinforcing plates to the bulkhead to prevent the metal from flexing. That's how good they really were.

This isn't just a "CVH Escort" though, is it? It's a relatively rare, homologation special Escort RS. And since when has a car had to be any good to become collectible? A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Is this worth £30k? Not to me and evidently not to you, but it might be to someone. In the current climate, you can't blame dealers for trying. It only takes one person with money to spend and fond memories.

[blade7]

Jon_S_Rally said:

A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Is this worth £30k? Not to me and evidently not to you, but it might be to someone. In the current climate, you can't blame dealers for trying. It only takes one person with money to spend and fond memories.

As has already been said, it only takes someone with an agenda to ask a silly price for one car and then fabricate a sale to someone else, then enthusiasts with heavily rose tinted specs are manipulated into paying silly prices for 'investment' cars'. In time the bottom will fall out of these cars, in more ways than one.

[J4CKO]

blade7 said:

Jon_S_Rally said:

A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Is this worth £30k? Not to me and evidently not to you, but it might be to someone. In the current climate, you can't blame dealers for trying. It only takes one person with money to spend and fond memories.

As has already been said, it only takes someone with an agenda to ask a silly price for one car and then fabricate a sale to someone else, then enthusiasts with heavily rose tinted specs are manipulated into paying silly prices for 'investment' cars'. In time the bottom will fall out of these cars, in more ways than one.

Its entirely up to the purchaser, nobody forces anyone to buy overpriced aged Fords, its not cancer drugs or anything, its an old car, nobody needs one, they may want one and then its down to available funds vs want.

Dealers will try and get as much as possible, that's what they do, realistically this is top of the market and most will change hands for a lot less.

People spend millions on Jewellery, paintings, wine and god knows what else, this wont be a cash strapped single mum buying it, will be someone who probably, the difference between 15 and 25 grand doesnt mean a whole lot to.

People spend 30k on new cars every single day of the year, keep that three years and its worth what 18 ? whereas this, if thats where the market actually is will have not lost 12 grand, unless there is a massive change in the market, its happened before but the prices always seem to bounce back eventually, this, kept nicely will always have a value.

Its about the last thing I would buy if I had 30 grand spare, I quite like it, but there are so many other things I would want before a 115 bhp Escort.

i suppose the problem is, most rich folk never had or aspired to MK3 Escorts, 911's yes, thats why that market has gone so crazy, needs to be a working class kind of person done well mainly, there are exceptions but the XR3i and most Escorts, most sporty fords even were resolutely blue collar kind of cars.

[s m]

J4CKO said:

blade7 said:

Jon_S_Rally said:

A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Is this worth £30k? Not to me and evidently not to you, but it might be to someone. In the current climate, you can't blame dealers for trying. It only takes one person with money to spend and fond memories.

As has already been said, it only takes someone with an agenda to ask a silly price for one car and then fabricate a sale to someone else, then enthusiasts with heavily rose tinted specs are manipulated into paying silly prices for 'investment' cars'. In time the bottom will fall out of these cars, in more ways than one.

Its entirely up to the purchaser, nobody forces anyone to buy overpriced aged Fords, its not cancer drugs or anything, its an old car, nobody needs one, they may want one and then its down to available funds vs want.

Dealers will try and get as much as possible, that's what they do, realistically this is top of the market and most will change hands for a lot less.

People spend millions on Jewellery, paintings, wine and god knows what else, this wont be a cash strapped single mum buying it, will be someone who probably, the difference between 15 and 25 grand doesnt mean a whole lot to.

People spend 30k on new cars every single day of the year, keep that three years and its worth what 18 ? whereas this, if thats where the market actually is will have not lost 12 grand, unless there is a massive change in the market, its happened before but the prices always seem to bounce back eventually, this, kept nicely will always have a value.

Its about the last thing I would buy if I had 30 grand spare, I quite like it, but there are so many other things I would want before a 115 bhp Escort.

i suppose the problem is, most rich folk never had or aspired to MK3 Escorts, 911's yes, thats why that market has gone so crazy, needs to be a working class kind of person done well mainly, there are exceptions but the XR3i and most Escorts, most sporty fords even were resolutely blue collar kind of cars.

Very true Jacko, the collectible E30 BMW and Merc 190 homologation cars are well into 6 figures for the most expensive examples, the Merc 190 Evolution 2 a cool quarter of a million

Porsches and Ferraris even more.............

[ecksjay]

Found one of these 'RS' steering wheels in a box from a storage unit i clear out a while back (including pretty much an entire dismantled sapphire cosworth....). Have been offered some ridiculous money for it so it was a real nice find. Bit young to remember/lust after the cars but the prices of classic Fords has gone absolutely crazy so not surprised at the asking price really.

[el romeral]

I remember one of the many differences over the XR3i was that the RS had two red lights in one of the dials. They remained lit when you pressed the accelerator but went out when you took your foot off. Was lead to believe they were related to the fuel computer? Anyone give a better explanation of what they were for?

[cerb4.5lee]

ecksjay said:

Found one of these 'RS' steering wheels in a box from a storage unit i clear out a while back (including pretty much an entire dismantled sapphire cosworth....). Have been offered some ridiculous money for it so it was a real nice find. Bit young to remember/lust after the cars but the prices of classic Fords has gone absolutely crazy so not surprised at the asking price really.

I had the same steering wheel in my MK5 RS2000 and it was a really nice wheel to use. They do command good money as you mention. All the Ford talk always makes me want another one of some sort!

[blade7]

J4CKO said:

Its entirely up to the purchaser, nobody forces anyone to buy overpriced aged Fords, its not cancer drugs or anything, its an old car, nobody needs one, they may want one and then its down to available funds vs want.

You think a middle aged working class guy that spunks his pension on a hyped up car, doesn't care if it's worth half as much in the not too distant future?

[blade7]

s m said:

Very true Jacko, the collectible E30 BMW and Merc 190 homologation cars are well into 6 figures for the most expensive examples, the Merc 190 Evolution 2 a cool quarter of a million

Porsches and Ferraris even more.............

Investors or polishers. It's much more important how it drives to me.

[s m]

blade7 said:

s m said:

Very true Jacko, the collectible E30 BMW and Merc 190 homologation cars are well into 6 figures for the most expensive examples, the Merc 190 Evolution 2 a cool quarter of a million

Porsches and Ferraris even more.............

Investors or polishers. It's much more important how it drives to me.

Same here

30k for an RS1600i is small potatoes compared to £250, 000 for a Merc 190 though

As always you can buy a drivable example for a lot less

[Saabaholic]

Drive Blind said:

Spotted said:

It’s 1.6-litre engine was louder thanks to changes to the four-cylinder’s valve gear mechanism

yeah that's exactly what the CVH needs, more noise

horrible engine, hated the things.

Glad im not the only one. It was the most harsh engine ever produced. As you revved it, the damn thing went right through your bones.
Complete bag of nails, and they smoked more than someone on 40 a day.

[cerb4.5lee]

Saabaholic said:

Glad im not the only one. It was the most harsh engine ever produced. As you revved it, the damn thing went right through your bones.
Complete bag of nails, and they smoked more than someone on 40 a day.

I think the YB engine in the cossie took the mantle of smoking after the CVH. I don't think I've ever seen a Cosworth that hasn't smoked!!

[J4CKO]

blade7 said:

J4CKO said:

Its entirely up to the purchaser, nobody forces anyone to buy overpriced aged Fords, its not cancer drugs or anything, its an old car, nobody needs one, they may want one and then its down to available funds vs want.

You think a middle aged working class guy that spunks his pension on a hyped up car, doesn't care if it's worth half as much in the not too distant future?

I compared it to 30k on a new car which would lose say 12 grand in three years.

[mrtwisty]

Spotted the Blue Oval, the 'RS' and the KGF logo. Stopped scrolling.

Tried to guess how ridiculous the price might be - thought I'd aim 'silly high' to get close to the sticker price. Was still 10k short.

Madness.

Although J4CKO does make a good point about nobody being forced to buy one of these at 30k, I just cannot fathom the thought process that leads to 'Hmmmm shall I buy, say, an excellent condition Tuscan with a re-worked and warrantied engine, or this slow old Ford....? Tough choice!'

Yet clearly these people walk among us! Would be a boring old world if everyone thought the same though I suppose :-)






(You're still nuts though)

[s m]

mrtwisty said:

Spotted the Blue Oval, the 'RS' and the KGF logo. Stopped scrolling.

Tried to guess how ridiculous the price might be - thought I'd aim 'silly high' to get close to the sticker price. Was still 10k short.

Madness.

Although J4CKO does make a good point about nobody being forced to buy one of these at 30k, I just cannot fathom the thought process that leads to 'Hmmmm shall I buy, say, an excellent condition Tuscan with a re-worked and warrantied engine, or this slow old Ford....? Tough choice!'

Yet clearly these people walk among us! Would be a boring old world if everyone thought the same though I suppose :-)






(You're still nuts though)

You could go round and round with that reasoning though?
i.e. shall I buy an unreliable Blackpool canoe that smells of glue and has had to have The engine rebuilt or a 911 for 2/3 of the cash

I suspect both of those cars will appeal to very different audiences

It’s good to have some choice before we’re consigned to soulless electric karts

[blade7]

J4CKO said:

blade7 said:

J4CKO said:

Its entirely up to the purchaser, nobody forces anyone to buy overpriced aged Fords, its not cancer drugs or anything, its an old car, nobody needs one, they may want one and then its down to available funds vs want.

You think a middle aged working class guy that spunks his pension on a hyped up car, doesn't care if it's worth half as much in the not too distant future?

I compared it to 30k on a new car which would lose say 12 grand in three years.

£30k new cars aren't touted as investments.

[SS2.]

They are worth what people are willing to pay, be that £5k, £30k or, in a few years time, possibly £35k.

[coppice]

Saabaholic said:

Glad im not the only one. It was the most harsh engine ever produced.

It really wasn't , you know. I have no idea what engine deserves that accolade but of ones I've experienced I'd nominate most 60 s Vauxhall engines, the Humber Hawk 4 cylinder , Ford 1172 sidevalve 4 , 80s Nissan Bluebird 1.8 , the BMC O series was bad and - by far the most shockingly awful engine I have ever experienced - the Austin Cambridge B series diesel , Awful , awful noise and vibration and 0-60 in about 45 seconds ISTR

The Ford engine was a bit gravelly , not a patch on an Alfa Twin Cam or Golf engine of course , but in a bluecollar Essex boy sort of way it was fine .

[stevesingo]

Thing is, no one is asking £30k for one of these because they have historical significance, or they are good to drive. They were a bad car in ‘85 with significantly better options available.

So, what makes this worth £30k in comparison to a Golf, 205 etc?

[J4CKO]

blade7 said:

J4CKO said:

blade7 said:

J4CKO said:

Its entirely up to the purchaser, nobody forces anyone to buy overpriced aged Fords, its not cancer drugs or anything, its an old car, nobody needs one, they may want one and then its down to available funds vs want.

You think a middle aged working class guy that spunks his pension on a hyped up car, doesn't care if it's worth half as much in the not too distant future?

I compared it to 30k on a new car which would lose say 12 grand in three years.

£30k new cars aren't touted as investments.

Absolutely true, but plenty get bought fully accepting the fact they will lose value, this RS1600i has a better chance of retaining value, caveat that with as long as you buy it right, i.e. you dont pay massively over the odds, but not sure where the sweet spot is for these, 30k seems a lot more than I would have anticipated and I reckon that most change hands between 12 and 20 grand in reality, bit of speculation going on.

Dealers get something like this and always add a bit on, then a bit more, and a bit more just to ensure they dont let it go without having realised the absolute most for it, fair dos, its business but I suspect for a serious buyer, there may be a deal to be done, depends how good it is and how much interest.